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    Albanians (OFFTOPIC Macedonians)

    Quote Originally Posted by Elias2 View Post
    \
    I sence again that you imply albanian decent from Illyrians, there is no continuation, I'm sorry. Albanian started to appear and were recorded in the middel ages, not before.
    Just another nationalist.
    This part of your post, is provocative, outside the topic (and makes me to react... in this way the topic deviates),and it's continuation of the propaganda that some of the southern slavs and new greeks, not not convenient the albanian autochthony, for millions of devouring reasons. The administrators should take action when we found these kind of deviations, thus promote long explanations (from another member), to make the "question" clear, and what is not related directly whith the topic!
    I tried to post here some of the objectives of this propaganda, but administrators here, could not have been withheld from the gruesome sight of the bitter of that albanian reality (That's why, now I will not post photo from the massacres of children, the elderly and Albanian womens, from the albanian "neighbors" (south slavs and new greeks).

    In this topic, i give you so many arguments (from international studies), against your way of thinking http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page7 ...but simply, you're not interested sincerely about this question and you dont even read anything in this direction.
    But, let's leave in a side international scientists, tell me from who you want materials, from free slavic scholars, or Greek (the only two albanian neighbors, who still devolop a propganda against albanian autochthony, because they still have pretense to take more from this small remaining land of the Albanians, or if it possible to assimilate all the Albanians what are still left, because their identity creates much problems about the monopoly of historical glory, that is created onerously!

    Ok let's give you a synthesis:) ...one book from a slavic and greek researcher in the same time.
    "The Albanians are generally considered to be the most ancient ethnic group in Southeastern Europe. They are the descendants of pre-Hellenic stock that was pushed back into the mountains of the western Balkans by the Hellenes and the Slavs. In this respect the Albanians may be compared to the Celts of the British Isles who were forced into the mountains of Wales, Scotland, and Ireland by the Anglo-Saxon invaders. The Albanian language is organically distinct from the neighboring Slavic and Greek languages in the same manner that the Celtic language is different from the Germanic".
    The Balkans since 1453, Leften Stavros Stavrianos, Traian Stoianovich, C. Hurst & Co. Publishers, 2008, p. 496-497

    A fragment of the above in a concise manner that includes the thousands years of the Albanian Odyssey. One of the authors is slav and the other from a greek. Both were educated in the U.S. increased, while the Balkan and its bloody history has been the vocation of their historical research.
    I Chose exactly why these two historians is their impartiality, meaning the lack of nationalist passions, of whom suffer no less from their colleagues in south slavis states and Greece.
    Now, I dont want to make you a list of so much other well known slavic and greek scientists, who came to the same scientific conclusions (like the albanolog Milan Sufflay, who was killed by serbs, only because of his work about albanian autochtony... Einstein was the one who reacted more for his murder), because you are not a person who have a free mind, to accept facts and argument. You simply don't read. I gave you a lot of books in the links above, but but it is vain. You are simply a spamer and a pseudo nationalist. From people like you, science has suffered too much!

    But it's interesting to know that albanians who attempt to argues or to clash whith someone like you, is not nationalism, but is simple REACTION, not ACTION. All the albanian philosophy is reaction, not action. And only reacion enabled us to survive, no matter that we are the bigest loosers in the World history until today, in relation of prerequisites that how we had to be. "Albanian nationalism" in itself, is neither more nor less than simply the national awareness that, in comparison with that of other nations, for besides that it is not predatory, or dangerous, it is so unique and also very controversial, that can not clearly define how the Albanian ethnocentrism, in itself mean multiculturalism (globalization / Khalifa), which is reflected in all components of social culture, to religion. This phenomenon undoubtedly has to do with being Albanian, as the older extract the creation of humanity and deep in our subconscious, all mankind may perceive as a 'nation' alone or 'fellow'.

    - And yes, I agree that Balkan nationalism is the worst!
    Only for south slavs, and greeks and any individual (not a free scientist) around the world, who has an emotional affinity with these nations, is a problem to accept the fact that albanians are autochthon in this region and they(alb) are there before them. Greeks started to accept the ties of albanians whith illyrians, thracians & epirotes, but they dont accept the ties of albanians whith pelasgians, because than the credits of this well known greek historic glory all around the world, will be presented by these poor and 'underdeveloped' people = shqiptars (sons of the eagle). That's why Greece wanted the region of south Albanian whith at any cost, and they pay the poor albanians in this region (provide pensions) to declaire themselfs today as a greek, because they know that this region and the ancient culture what still survived among these people, is the heart of pelasgian civilisation, and as a result, that region rised the glory of ancient greeks, which is presented today by milion of manipulation, by this religion state (not a national state) of Greece today, what was created by the european powers, after the breakdown of the Ottoman Empire. This orthodox state of Greece and north orthodox Serbia, was created on the occupied territories of Albanians who accepted Islam. So, the creation of these states, was a revenge against those Albanians, who thought that the better way to deal whith slavic invasions, was the alliance with the Turks, but with the condition of autonomy, to preserve the national idenditity. In the same way, some albanians thought to make an alliance whith the germans, italians... in brief, this "foundling" nation of Europe, whith no sisters, brothers, parents and childrens, like every nation around has, who survived and preserved in the mountains in Balkans, from permanent invasions, the original ancient identity of this region.
    In the other hand, free scientists tell us that illyrians, thracian, epirotes or macedonians (like thraco-illyrian combination), in fact are pelasgians, and for greeks, this race was barbarian (foreign).
    But finally, as some greeks accept the ancient origin of albanians and ties whith illyrian, thracian and epirot culture whith albanian, they also today accept that new greek state, was created from the albanian orthodox blood who prefer to call them self helens, and other muslim albanian preserve their authentic identity(language, symbols, culture at all) as a shqiptar (sons of the eagle-pelasgian): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p98D7Fql1Dk

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._5968696_n.jpg
    Greek constitution in 1821
    This is the approach that today Greece and "new greek nation" is formed. Here's the constitution of 1821 in Greece
    http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1227707_n.jpg
    Here is translated in english:
    http://i55.tinypic.com/29qjyuu.jpg
    ...is clearly seen in what basis the Greek state was formed, thus clearly stating that the Greeks had no need to talk Greek, or to have Greek blood, enough was the religion (ie Orthodox) and this policy made possible the absorption (or assimilation) of many other ethnicities.
    Also, just like in north, north-west and north-east of the Balkans, that catholic and othodox albanians were assimilated from south slavic population, also in south too othodox albanians were assimilated in greeks, and become more greek, than other races what were inhabites the Greece in that time (vlachs, mongols, slavs, ethiopians...) And when an albanian become slav, or greek, than he did not have that normative or moral code agains enemy, or culture of behavior like an albanian, and with that specific energy and that anger from permanent suffering, that characterizes this nation, they (assimilated albanians), when they felt themselves as Greek, Slavic, turk... they have led the wars against its remaining Albanians who survived from assimilations (because albanians are know like a brave soilders). But, when an original albanian, never take part in the massacres. They have a high moral code in these questions:
    Dr. Alexander Lambert: (Europe sabotage albanian history in the nineteenth century, when Illyria was called the Balkans)
    Europe should be proud to have in her bosom the Albanian nation, which should be evaluated as more tolerant ... there is no case that the Albanians in any moment of history they are no recognized as a nation that has attacked other nations and they never did not take part in the massacres. It is known that the Albanians have to shame to kill an enemy who surrenders... and that many Albanians have excellent running if the empire, whether other countries. Likewise, in his other Albanians have left their name in different fields of sciences in various countries of the world...
    Anyway, do not expand more my explanation, let's speak now for slavs:

    - South slavs are more frustrated from the autochthony of albanians. Today, croatians, slovenians, and some bosnians and bullgarians, accept that original identity of ancient cultures and peoples of this region, is presented today by albanians (shqiptars=sons of the eagle), even that in their population is a large percent of ancient people, who were assimilated by south slavs, but serbs and slavo-macedonians, still don't accept this simple fact, because they still pretend to continue tp occupied or dissolve this small albanian territory what is left (populated by Albanians who continue to resist assimilation), because they wanted their sea. And they worked permanently with their pseudo academics, to atack the conclusions from international free scientists,institutes and institutions of world renown, they are trying to deviate the conlusions of ancient writers also, fabricate new ridiculous stories, deny and tried to stop any presentation of Albanian culture internationally (in that region where Slavic invaders operated), and they work hard permanently in this direction.
    Simply, they used the lack of albanian state, institutions, and interest about these questions, because the primar task about albanians was and maybe still is, TO SURVIVE! - And for albanians, all scientific work in this direction, was realized from free international scientist, who have not had reason or interest from them, to favored this nation that went to extinction (and still is in the same risk).
    Today, for international scientist is no primary task to prevent the albanian history, that's why in internet still is evident the south slavic and greek propaganda. Albanian institutions still dont wory about these questions, their interes is only the politics and money... but whith a few young albanian people today who know to read and thanks to internet (again not our institutions) that allows us access to the books of international scientists, we will re-inform the world, to unmask this racism, pseudo-nationalism against my unfortunate people.
    Finally, we have records of the arrival of south slavs for the first time in these areas...
    Also, we have records of arrival of ancient, and new greeks for the first time in these areas...
    But:
    http://oi53.tinypic.com/jhcvf5.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3956048_n.jpg

    If there is a truly autochthonous race in the world it is certainly the Albanian race, as it is formed of the descendants of the Pelasgians and has kept for centuries the unique qualities of energy and intelligence which characterized its ancestors.
    http://books.google.com/books?id=tPE...ed=0CCsQ6AEwAA
    ...
    Albanian indeed the right to look on Greek, Roman, Norman, Angevin, Servian, Ventian and Ottoman, as alike intruders whithin his own immemorial land
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4863425_n.jpg
    ... and thousends of books, from international free scientists, institutes and institutions of world renown until today, that meet, with different methods of study, that are adding more books and conclusions of this level, and now i read somone like you, who even didn't now nothing about this people, to make conclusions whith dry words, whithout any contra argument. This is what i call pseudo nationalis, racism, hate...
    Read in this topic some of arguments from the method of comparison in lingiustic, DNA, folk elements, symbols, physic anthropology, and the culture at all of these people. If you are interested in this question, you should read the two sides, the propaganda, and the international studies in the other side, and make your approach:
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page6


    - This is the goal of the refusal of Albanian autochthony... and this is what I call racism, pseudo nationalism, unhuman behavior, or actions without any human or moral code... only to disappeared from the earth this survived "foundling" nation of Europe, whith no sisters, brothers, parents and childrens, like every nation around has, who survived and preserved in the mountains in Balkans, from permanent invasions, the original ancient identity of this region... only for serbs to have access in the sea!:
    In all maps, albanians are a result of expensions (invasions). We have survival history and as you go deeper in time, will see that our territory is larger. Restriction (contraction) of our territory is continuous occurrence since prehistory, we can't boast with any map, except the oldest ones that comfort us a little bit (because contraction is lower).
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...9&l=2734f5e6e0

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...18031154_n.jpg

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ba...%281861%29.jpg

    Genocide against Albanians
    - Death Toll: 120,000 – 270,000 Albanians of both sexes and all ages.
    255,878 Albanians expelled.
    - Genocide against Albanians in the First Yugoslavia
    - DR. V. CUBRILOVIC
    THE EXPULSION OF THE ALBANIANS
    Memorandum presented
    on March 7, 1937
    in Belgrade
    - The Expulsion of the Albanians
    - The Problem of Colonization of the Southern Regions
    - The International Problems of Colonization
    - The Mode of Evacuation
    - The Organization of the Evacuation
    - Depopulating and Repopulating Regions
    - The Colonization Apparatus
    http://espressostalinist.wordpress.c...nian-genocide/
    Memorandum of Serbian Head of state on asimilation and expultion of Albanians from Kingdom of Serbes Kroat Slovenes
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/mirsa...52432388186718
    GENOCIDE AGAINST ALBANIANS (Kosovo)
    GRAPHIC CONTENTS: Some of the 15 bodies of ethnic Albanians, what have been massacred, are seen in the village of Obrija, in the Drenica area southwest of Pristina, Yugoslavia, Tuesday Sept. 29 1998. Tensions between Serbs and Albanians were stoked with the discovery of 15 Albanian men, women and children _ apparently refugees _ who were shot in the back of the head at a makeshift camp. They were massacred by the Serbs on Sunday. There was no immediate Serb response. The bodies were seen by diplomats from the United States and other countries visiting some of the estimated 275,000 refugees driven from their homes in the seven-month crackdown. (AP Photo/Adam Brown) AP - (I can't post the photo!)
    THIS CHILD WHAT IS SEEN IN PHOTO IS VALMIR ADEM DELIU- ONE YEAR CHILD massacred by SERBS
    (I can't post the photo from the massacre, because of the disallowance from the administrators)
    Massacre in upper Arbri of Drenica - September 26, 1998
    https://www.facebook.com/media
    (I can't post the photo from the massacre, because of the disallowance from the administrators)
    KOSOVO: Ethnic Cleansing redux
    http://www.zeriyt.com/kosovo-ethnic-...t27054.15.html


    (...and "albanian nationalism" if it exist at all, was and is a REACTION, not a ACTION... Dr. Alexander Lambert: Europe should be proud to have in her bosom the Albanian nation, which should be evaluated as more tolerant ... there is no case that the Albanians in any moment of history they are no recognized as a nation that has attacked other nations and they never did not take part in the massacres. It is known that the Albanians have to shame to kill an enemy who surrenders...
    And this is a REACION that makes us to survive and in this time too: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3728697_n.jpg )

    Greek Genocide Against the Albanians (there were involved and albanians othodox who became more greek than the greeks and still today the orthodox albanians, declaire themself as a greek, to live better in Greece like a greek)
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_b1vUeML1YN...+ne+cameri.jpg
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_b1vUeML1YN...E/S230/169.jpg
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_b1vUeML1YN...U/S230/171.jpg
    http://diatribe-column.blogspot.com/...am-chumps.html
    http://chameria.blogspot.com/
    http://www.illyrians.org/genonc.html
    Albania's Golgotha
    The atrocities committed by the Serbs against the Albanians at the present time are not different from those perpetrated in 1912-1913, as described in Albania's Golgotha.
    http://www.alb-net.com/juka1.htm
    Here (Drenica) are massacred 147 Albanian, all old men, women and children
    (I can't post the photo from the massacre, because of the disallowance from the administrators)
    Mass migration of Albanians in Turkey
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._7826581_n.jpg
    From 'Naçertanie' Ilia Garashaninit - 1844
    Genocide against Albanians
    Masakra e Tivarit
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6405533_n.jpg
    Genocide against Albanians
    Masacre of Tivar after ww2 in Montenegro ~4300 albanians killed
    Genocide against Albanians
    KOSOVO CRISIS
    [Mod edit: Please do not copy and paste entire articles from the Internet. Use summaries and links instead. The article Besir refers to can be located here.]

    Now, let's speak about ancient macedonians... stop this approach and talk scientifically, whith historical arguments, whith "cold" head, whithout hate, with patriotism, but whithout pseduo nationalism... learn to behave like a valuable HUMAN ('The human' this is a big word I think)... people are not toys!

    Last edited by sparkey; 18-10-11 at 17:54. Reason: Redacted entire article

  2. #2
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    @Besir Bajrami

    You are a very confusing individual...........2/3 weeks ago you get me to translate one of you documents and it says Albanians are ancient Molossians and not something else. It siad Molossians. Are you not satified with this ?

    Do you have any idea or any clue what you are aiming for ?...........you know you need to aim for the truth even if it is against the propaganda that you where raised/taught .

    I will not reply to you anymore when you place multi attachments.

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    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    The thread is About Makedonians,

    now if you also consider Makedonians Albanians then no comment,

    try to understand that truth is above propaganda,

    no body denies the existance of Albanians,
    but from that to Albanians from italy to Japan is very far,
    now if your problem is Kossyfo then suitable threads exists,

  4. #4
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    @ Zanipolo
    I see that you can't make a difference about a single tribe, belonging to a more inclusive culture and being presented with their name (whith other tribes in common too).
    Here you have the answer about your dilemma 2/3 weeks ago.
    It's interesting how you remember that wonderfull piece of book, and not all other books that I posted about you. It's imported to understand that all these books are telling the same thing. From the ancient writers... from the beginning of the period of illumination in Europe (when europeans began to make a lot of scientific studies, to understand the truth of ancient Europe, without being influenced by nationalism)... to today.
    For example only from german scientists, who make the same conclusions about albanians, from the albanolgy (using the method of comparison of languages, ethymology...); latter and from anthropolgy (physic, today and genetic too); archeology; symbolism; and all other elements of a culture at all... are:
    G. V. Jajbnic;
    J. G. Herder;
    J. Thunman;
    F. Bop;
    J. R. von Xylander;
    J. G. von Hahn;
    J. F. Fallmerayer;
    T. Momsen;
    P. Kretchmer;
    H. Fromer;
    P. R. Franke...

    But I think you are an italian. Ok except that book about Molossians, try this one: “Rivista di studi politici internazionali, Volume 60”
    Giacinto Bosco, Florence. Facoltà di scienze politiche "Cesare Alfieri.", Università di Firenze. Studio fiorentino di politica estera
    Sansoni, 1993 >
    "La storia non manipolata prova infatti che il territorio chiamato in serbo Kosovo, e con tale nome ormai accettato internazionalmente, fin dalle epoche più remote, molto prima anche della discesa delle tribù elleniche, era abitato dagli Illiri (ilir = libero), i cui eredi diretti sono noti oggi come Albanesi."
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...6_524923_n.jpg

    Just tell me if you want other books from italian scientists who have written about these people (from ancient times, to today). Or from other french, english, american, even slavic & greek scientist

    + something to remind:
    Victoria magazine, Volume 9
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4973691_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...9_545192_n.jpg
    A companion to Latin studies
    Sir John Edwin Sandys
    Cambridge University Press, 1913 (second edit.)
    (By the way, he is talking about these Thraco-Illyrian... and now Albanian tatoos http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page5)

    The Trojans also spoke a kind of Illyrian dialect, and through them several Illyrian words came into Greek.
    pp.116
    [...]
    According to Kretschmer the recessive accent of Hellenes is due to Panellenes (also in the second book of the Iliad); it was originally *Hellanes. Now –anes is certainly a non-Greek, Illyrian suffix, as can be seen clearly from the names of the Agrianes, Athamanes, Akarnanes, Atintanes, Arktanes, Enchelanes (or better, Engelanes)...
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._2266786_n.jpg

    Albanian > Greek
    Albanian (Etruscan) > Latin
    Europe, Stanford's compendium of geogr. and travel
    Frederick William Rudler, George Goudie Chisholm
    Andrew Crombie Ramsay (sir)

    London, Edward Standford, 55, Charing Cross, S.W
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...92396591_n.jpg
    (+ ...before it had split https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...7_586144_n.jpg... that means Albanian = Pelasgian
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...3&l=121558727c)

    +
    Epeirotes and Macedonian languages ​​belong to the Illyrian family, Pelasgian, today Albanian, the language of Skipetarian (or Arvanite/Arnaut/Arbresh/Arber/n)
    The Genesis of the earth and of man *: or, The history of creation, and the antiquity and races of mankind considered on Biblical and other grounds Edward William Lane
    Reginald Stuart Poole
    Edition 2
    Williams and Norgate
    ...

    or:
    These people are generally and in all probability accurately identified as the result of the combination of the ancient Illyrians, Macedonians, and Epirotes, who were all the descendants of the more ancient Pelasgians.
    The American review of reviews, Volume 47 - Albert Shaw - Review of Reviews, 1913

    Recent French research on the Etruscans suggests that the Albanians could well be the descendants of the Pelasgians, a related race inhabiting the Balkans many centuries before the arrival of the Greeks.
    p.304
    The Geographical magazine, Volume 36
    Michael Huxley
    Geographical Press, 1963

    +
    We are able to trace with tolerable certainty the long series of historical transformations by which the ancient Epirotes, Illyrians, and Macedonians, were reborn during the Middle Ages into the modern Albanian race.
    [...]
    Now it was, however, that the Illyrians and men of Epirus constituted a breakwater against the floods. For a long time they maintained a defensive attitude against the Teutonic and Slavonic races on the north and west. At length the Mohammedans came in from the East, and the people whom we may now call Albanians had to face about and defend themselves against Islam. The Turks made little headway against this resolute enemy. A popular leader appeared in the celebrated George Castriota, whom the Turks called Scanderbeg. Time and again Mohammed II, after his conquest of Constantinople, set his armies against the Albanians, only to suffer defeat at their hands.
    [...]
    This is to say that the modern Greeks and the Albanians are at the end of the twigs of the first branch of the Aryan tree which we have been considering.
    [...]
    Thus we have presented for our consideration the modern Greek and Albanian races as the repre sentatives of the first division of the old Aryan family of mankind.
    Ridpath's history of the world - Ridpath, John Clark, Volume: 2 - New York, Merrill & Baker

    Except Albanians, none of peoples of the Balkans was not native, they were all conquering...
    Europe and the Turk: a pattern of alliances, 1350-1700 (Edition reprint)
    Dorothy Margaret Vaughan
    AMS Press, 1976
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._1683867_n.jpg

    Albanians are the oldest race in Europe - older than Latin and Greek populations
    The Biblical world, Volume 41

    William Rainey Harper, Ernest De Witt Burton, Shailer Mathews
    Composed and Printed By The University of Chicago Press Chicago, Illinois. U.S.A.
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._5296689_n.jpg

    Albanian language is the most ancient tongue in Europe and is the mother of latin and greek...
    Thus pressed back, the Illyrian, Epirote and Macedonian clans consolidated themselfs in what modern geography knows as Albania...
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6004692_n.jpg
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...8_934157_n.jpg
    National Geographic: vol 59

    UP to the present time the Albanians have been looked upon in Europe as the ferocious auxiliaries of the Turks and to them have been imputed the crimes which desolate the orient, but the fact is that matters are very different.
    If there is a truly autochthonous race in the world it is certainly the Albanian race, as it is formed of the descendants of the Pelasgians and has kept for centuries the unique qualities of energy and intelligence which characterized its ancestors.
    In the whole of Macedonia the Albanian language is spoken and the villages of Janina and Scutari are alone peopled by Albanians.
    p.587
    Public opinion, Volume 34
    The Public Opinion Co.,
    Princeton University

    The Encyclopaedia Britannica
    http://oi53.tinypic.com/jhcvf5.jpg

    Alber Pike
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3956048_n.jpg

    Also, Skipetar blood must be found far south of the present Skipetar area, even as Bask (Iberic) blood is to be found in the non-Iberic parts of Spain and Portugal and France.
    Page 351
    The Encyclopaedia Britannica, or Dictionary of Arts, Sciences, and General Literature: Ent - Fra, Volume 9, Edition 8
    Adam and Charles Black, Edinburgh, MDCCCLV
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4276547_n.jpg

    Tumalare ancient tombs in Greece as those of Theroic roy heroic; their denomination comes from Albanian language...
    The Journal of Hellenic studies
    Autori: Society for the Promotion of Hellenic Studies (London, England)
    Volume: 2,

    London : Published by the Council of the Society
    KRAUS REPRINT
    Nendeln/Liechtenstein 1971 Germany
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6989610_n.jpg
    ...

    Albania is the only country in the Balkan region where the feeling of nationality appears to be independent of religion
    The East end of Europe: The report of an unofficial mission to the European provinces of Turkey on the eve of the revolution
    Allen Upward, J. Murray

    Albanians remain today unchanged representatives of prehistoric Pelasgians
    America and the great war for humanity and freedom
    Johnson, Willis Fletcher
    Philadelphia, The John C. Winston company

    Almost the entire population of Eleusis is Albanian and speak Albanian - a language quite different from the Greek language, and which is claimed by many, to be a descendant of the ancient Pelasgian language. It is still the language of the nation in Albania (Epirus), the country in which the Pelasgian Zeus was worshiped.
    "Greece and the Greeks" -tr.[from Lifvet i gamla verden] by M. Howitt-Fredrika Bremer
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._7498786_n.jpg


    The true history of mankind will be written only when Albanians participate in its writing
    Maximilian Lambertz
    Albanien erzählt: ein Einblick in die albanische Literatur. Übersetzt und herausgegeben. Literatur der Volksdemokratien, 7
    (Berlin: Volk und Welt)
    191 pp.

    ...and so many other scientific conclusions, which come as a result of the methods mentioned above.


    @Yetos (former iapetoc)
    First, try to read all my post, to understand why you saw the name Kosovo there (there are and materials about new greeks too). Not only to reply about a single word. By the way, you have serious problem whith the perception of history at all. You want only to reach the attention here, by denying everything. You use the fact that the truth is not absolute, and you abuse whith this relativity of the truth, by denying everything, even the name or existence of a nation at all.


    __________________________________
    More precisely about ancient Macedonia
    (Attention: These are not empty words, influenced by nationalism, but are international studies that have not had reason to become an instrument of nationalism for this small, poor and suffered nation, called "sons of the eagle")

    ... and what about ancient Macedonia ?

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=1f8bcdeead

    - Albanians are not like slavo-macedonians to offend the other ethnic groups just for chauvinistic pourpouses. We have nothing against the greeks, they are our neigbours and if we want to be respected we must show some dignity not to fall in the same level of slavo-macedonians. The real enemies stand behind what is called "greek nation". These people mostly living in mount Athos and in some government buildings are the real people who need a DNA test. I bet the result would be: blood from another solar-system.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Besir Bajrami View Post
    @ Zanipolo
    I see that you can't make a difference about a single tribe, belonging to a more inclusive culture and being presented with their name (whith other tribes in common too).
    Here you have the answer about your dilemma 2/3 weeks ago.
    It's interesting how you remember that wonderfull piece of book, and not all other books that I posted about you. It's imported to understand that all these books are telling the same thing. From the ancient writers... from the beginning of the period of illumination in Europe (when europeans began to make a lot of scientific studies, to understand the truth of ancient Europe, without being influenced by nationalism)... to today.
    For example only from german scientists, who make the same conclusions about albanians, from the albanolgy (using the method of comparison of languages, ethymology...); latter and from anthropolgy (physic, today and genetic too); archeology; symbolism; and all other elements of a culture at all... are:
    G. V. Jajbnic;
    J. G. Herder;
    J. Thunman;
    F. Bop;
    J. R. von Xylander;
    J. G. von Hahn;
    J. F. Fallmerayer;
    T. Momsen;
    P. Kretchmer;
    H. Fromer;
    P. R. Franke...

    But I think you are an italian. Ok except that book about Molossians, try this one: “Rivista di studi politici internazionali, Volume 60”
    Giacinto Bosco, Florence. Facoltà di scienze politiche "Cesare Alfieri.", Università di Firenze. Studio fiorentino di politica estera
    Sansoni, 1993 >
    "La storia non manipolata prova infatti che il territorio chiamato in serbo Kosovo, e con tale nome ormai accettato internazionalmente, fin dalle epoche più remote, molto prima anche della discesa delle tribù elleniche, era abitato dagli Illiri (ilir = libero), i cui eredi diretti sono noti oggi come Albanesi."
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...6_524923_n.jpg

    Just tell me if you want other books from italian scientists who have written about these people (from ancient times, to today). Or from other french, english, american, even slavic & greek scientist

    + something to remind:
    Victoria magazine, Volume 9
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4973691_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...9_545192_n.jpg
    A companion to Latin studies
    Sir John Edwin Sandys
    Cambridge University Press, 1913 (second edit.)
    (By the way, he is talking about these Thraco-Illyrian... and now Albanian tatoos http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page5)

    The Trojans also spoke a kind of Illyrian dialect, and through them several Illyrian words came into Greek.
    pp.116
    [...]
    According to Kretschmer the recessive accent of Hellenes is due to Panellenes (also in the second book of the Iliad); it was originally *Hellanes. Now –anes is certainly a non-Greek, Illyrian suffix, as can be seen clearly from the names of the Agrianes, Athamanes, Akarnanes, Atintanes, Arktanes, Enchelanes (or better, Engelanes)...
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._2266786_n.jpg

    Albanian > Greek
    Albanian (Etruscan) > Latin
    Europe, Stanford's compendium of geogr. and travel
    Frederick William Rudler, George Goudie Chisholm
    Andrew Crombie Ramsay (sir)

    London, Edward Standford, 55, Charing Cross, S.W
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...92396591_n.jpg
    (+ ...before it had split https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...7_586144_n.jpg... that means Albanian = Pelasgian
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...3&l=121558727c)

    +
    Epeirotes and Macedonian languages ​​belong to the Illyrian family, Pelasgian, today Albanian, the language of Skipetarian (or Arvanite/Arnaut/Arbresh/Arber/n)
    The Genesis of the earth and of man *: or, The history of creation, and the antiquity and races of mankind considered on Biblical and other grounds Edward William Lane
    Reginald Stuart Poole
    Edition 2
    Williams and Norgate
    ...

    or:
    These people are generally and in all probability accurately identified as the result of the combination of the ancient Illyrians, Macedonians, and Epirotes, who were all the descendants of the more ancient Pelasgians.
    The American review of reviews, Volume 47 - Albert Shaw - Review of Reviews, 1913

    Recent French research on the Etruscans suggests that the Albanians could well be the descendants of the Pelasgians, a related race inhabiting the Balkans many centuries before the arrival of the Greeks.
    p.304
    The Geographical magazine, Volume 36
    Michael Huxley
    Geographical Press, 1963

    +
    We are able to trace with tolerable certainty the long series of historical transformations by which the ancient Epirotes, Illyrians, and Macedonians, were reborn during the Middle Ages into the modern Albanian race.
    [...]
    Now it was, however, that the Illyrians and men of Epirus constituted a breakwater against the floods. For a long time they maintained a defensive attitude against the Teutonic and Slavonic races on the north and west. At length the Mohammedans came in from the East, and the people whom we may now call Albanians had to face about and defend themselves against Islam. The Turks made little headway against this resolute enemy. A popular leader appeared in the celebrated George Castriota, whom the Turks called Scanderbeg. Time and again Mohammed II, after his conquest of Constantinople, set his armies against the Albanians, only to suffer defeat at their hands.
    [...]
    This is to say that the modern Greeks and the Albanians are at the end of the twigs of the first branch of the Aryan tree which we have been considering.
    [...]
    Thus we have presented for our consideration the modern Greek and Albanian races as the repre sentatives of the first division of the old Aryan family of mankind.
    Ridpath's history of the world - Ridpath, John Clark, Volume: 2 - New York, Merrill & Baker

    Except Albanians, none of peoples of the Balkans was not native, they were all conquering...
    Europe and the Turk: a pattern of alliances, 1350-1700 (Edition reprint)
    Dorothy Margaret Vaughan
    AMS Press, 1976
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._1683867_n.jpg

    Albanians are the oldest race in Europe - older than Latin and Greek populations
    The Biblical world, Volume 41

    William Rainey Harper, Ernest De Witt Burton, Shailer Mathews
    Composed and Printed By The University of Chicago Press Chicago, Illinois. U.S.A.
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._5296689_n.jpg

    Albanian language is the most ancient tongue in Europe and is the mother of latin and greek...
    Thus pressed back, the Illyrian, Epirote and Macedonian clans consolidated themselfs in what modern geography knows as Albania...
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6004692_n.jpg
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...8_934157_n.jpg
    National Geographic: vol 59

    UP to the present time the Albanians have been looked upon in Europe as the ferocious auxiliaries of the Turks and to them have been imputed the crimes which desolate the orient, but the fact is that matters are very different.
    If there is a truly autochthonous race in the world it is certainly the Albanian race, as it is formed of the descendants of the Pelasgians and has kept for centuries the unique qualities of energy and intelligence which characterized its ancestors.
    In the whole of Macedonia the Albanian language is spoken and the villages of Janina and Scutari are alone peopled by Albanians.
    p.587
    Public opinion, Volume 34
    The Public Opinion Co.,
    Princeton University

    The Encyclopaedia Britannica
    http://oi53.tinypic.com/jhcvf5.jpg

    Alber Pike
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3956048_n.jpg

    Also, Skipetar blood must be found far south of the present Skipetar area, even as Bask (Iberic) blood is to be found in the non-Iberic parts of Spain and Portugal and France.
    Page 351
    The Encyclopaedia Britannica, or Dictionary of Arts, Sciences, and General Literature: Ent - Fra, Volume 9, Edition 8
    Adam and Charles Black, Edinburgh, MDCCCLV
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4276547_n.jpg

    Tumalare ancient tombs in Greece as those of Theroic roy heroic; their denomination comes from Albanian language...
    The Journal of Hellenic studies
    Autori: Society for the Promotion of Hellenic Studies (London, England)
    Volume: 2,

    London : Published by the Council of the Society
    KRAUS REPRINT
    Nendeln/Liechtenstein 1971 Germany
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6989610_n.jpg
    ...

    Albania is the only country in the Balkan region where the feeling of nationality appears to be independent of religion
    The East end of Europe: The report of an unofficial mission to the European provinces of Turkey on the eve of the revolution
    Allen Upward, J. Murray

    Albanians remain today unchanged representatives of prehistoric Pelasgians
    America and the great war for humanity and freedom
    Johnson, Willis Fletcher
    Philadelphia, The John C. Winston company

    Almost the entire population of Eleusis is Albanian and speak Albanian - a language quite different from the Greek language, and which is claimed by many, to be a descendant of the ancient Pelasgian language. It is still the language of the nation in Albania (Epirus), the country in which the Pelasgian Zeus was worshiped.
    "Greece and the Greeks" -tr.[from Lifvet i gamla verden] by M. Howitt-Fredrika Bremer
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._7498786_n.jpg


    The true history of mankind will be written only when Albanians participate in its writing
    Maximilian Lambertz
    Albanien erzählt: ein Einblick in die albanische Literatur. Übersetzt und herausgegeben. Literatur der Volksdemokratien, 7
    (Berlin: Volk und Welt)
    191 pp.

    ...and so many other scientific conclusions, which come as a result of the methods mentioned above.


    @Yetos (former iapetoc)
    First, try to read all my post, to understand why you saw the name Kosovo there (there are and materials about new greeks too). Not only to reply about a single word. By the way, you have serious problem whith the perception of history at all. You want only to reach the attention here, by denying everything. You use the fact that the truth is not absolute, and you abuse whith this relativity of the truth, by denying everything, even the name or existence of a nation at all.


    __________________________________
    More precisely about ancient Macedonia
    (Attention: These are not empty words, influenced by nationalism, but are international studies that have not had reason to become an instrument of nationalism for this small, poor and suffered nation, called "sons of the eagle")

    ... and what about ancient Macedonia ?

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=1f8bcdeead

    - Albanians are not like slavo-macedonians to offend the other ethnic groups just for chauvinistic pourpouses. We have nothing against the greeks, they are our neigbours and if we want to be respected we must show some dignity not to fall in the same level of slavo-macedonians. The real enemies stand behind what is called "greek nation". These people mostly living in mount Athos and in some government buildings are the real people who need a DNA test. I bet the result would be: blood from another solar-system.
    you are still confused....your here link goes to some sites saying the albanians of skantanberg where epirotes
    your Italian link saying nothing, it says in the area once lived illyrians and the people now in kosovo are SIMILAR to albanians.

    you have major nationalistic issues which is making you post so many things which contradict each other.

    Let me say ..If you believe the albanians where original people in the albanian area, then ALL I have found is that albanians in the ancient times where either Epirotes or Molossians ( maybe a bit of both) ........the original homeland was in the Pindus mountains.

    The name Albanoi was first mentioned by Roman historians in 100AD ( BCE) , so completly non-illyrian as the area mentioned was non-illyrian area...........secondly , illyrians never reached the Pindus mountains.

    Between the Illyrians and Helles /greeks where the Epirotes, molossians, dorians, macedonians, dardanians ............where does the albanians fit in?

    Trojans as far as I know spoke Luwian.

    Is Pelagasian a people or a linguistic dialect/language spoken by many different races?

    so, if you can make it clear who you beleive the albanians are we can check

  6. #6
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    Country: Macedonia



    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    you are still confused....your here link goes to some sites saying the albanians of skantanberg where epirotes
    Yes, and so what is wrong whith that ?!

    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    your Italian link saying nothing, it says in the area once lived illyrians and the people now in kosovo are SIMILAR to albanians.
    Please stop deviating the words !
    The link there is saying:
    Italian:
    "La storia non manipolata prova infatti che il territorio chiamato in serbo Kosovo, e con tale nome ormai accettato internazionalmente, fin dalle epoche più remote, molto prima anche della discesa delle tribù elleniche, era abitato dagli Illiri (ilir = libero), i cui eredi diretti sono noti oggi come Albanesi."

    English:
    "History without manipulating proves that actually the territory named in Serbian Kosovo, the name which is already recognized internationally since the early days, long before the arrival of Hellenic tribes, was inhabited by the Illyrians (Illyrian = libero), direct descendants of which are known today as Albanians."
    “Rivista di studi politici internazionali, Volume 60”
    Giacinto Bosco, Florence. Facoltà di scienze politiche "Cesare Alfieri.", Università di Firenze. Studio fiorentino di politica estera
    Sansoni, 1993 >
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...6_524923_n.jpg

    And you have should considered that i can overspread you whith thousands of other books, if you try to degrade the importance of any of the aforementioned

    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    you have major nationalistic issues which is making you post so many things which contradict each other.
    How can be nationalistic about albanians, all these thousands of international studies, from antiquity until today?!
    I doubt here who is pseudo nationalist, international fre scientists, or you !



    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    Let me say ..If you believe the albanians where original people in the albanian area, then ALL I have found is that albanians in the ancient times where either Epirotes or Molossians ( maybe a bit of both) ........the original homeland was in the Pindus mountains.
    You still dont understand the difference of a tribe and a nation or the culture at all.
    Mollossians were Epirot or Illyrian TRIBE of the same culture whith other Illyrian or Epirot tribes. In fact, you have to understand that Macedonians were thraco-illyrians (pelasgian)... just like all hundreds of other tribes in these areas, before the arrival of hellenic tribes.

    How many times I have to say that you should read about Illyrians, Epirotes and Macedonians(from the same 'barbarian' culture-pelasgian) here:
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page9

    1
    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    The name Albanoi was first mentioned by Roman historians in 100AD ( BCE),
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    so completly non-illyrian as the area mentioned was non-illyrian area...........
    Hahaha... I'm wondering where to find any connection between these two sentences ?!
    + http://www.illyrians.org/shouldweignore.html


    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    secondly , illyrians never reached the Pindus mountains.
    Learn more about Illyrian tribes and territory in all periods, not to post me any map after X invasions


    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    Between the Illyrians and Helles /greeks where the Epirotes, molossians, dorians, macedonians, dardanians ............where does the albanians fit in?
    1.Dorians-------the real Greeks (Helenes)- (1100 BC migrate to Greece main land). Their original Home Phthia
    Very, very, very small tribe of Pelasgians 1100 BC. Very specific dialect of Pelasgians
    (“Now all those who dwelt about Pelasgian Argos, those who lived by Alos and Alope and at Trakhis, thos who held Phthia and Hellas the land of fair women, who were called Myrmidones and Hellenes and Akhaians, of all these and their fifty ships the lord was Akhilleus.” - Homer, The Iliad 2.681
    Phthia and Hellas the land of fair women(english)----Phithia and Hellas toke grash te drejta (albanian)


    2.Ionians--------Pelasgians( become "greeks" in classical time 450 BC after Peloponesian War and were "assimilated" by doric dialect of pelasgians 750-450 BC.

    3.Aeolians----------same story as Ionians

    4.The islanders-----same story as Ionians and aeolians

    5.Achaeans of Peloponesus---------same with Ioninians (under Argos kingdom 1200 BC)

    6.Achaeans of Thesaly-------same as Dorians

    Pelasgians (the Albanians today)------Pelasgians (people that were never assimilated by the Doric dialect)


    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    Trojans as far as I know spoke Luwian.
    Dardanians were founders of Troy. Dardanians were thraco-illyrian (pelasgian) powerfull tribe. Troy (or Illius), were Illyrian (Pelasgian). - Read the piece of book above about this question too ;)
    But Luwian are not aliens :)
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3291884_n.jpg
    The Trojans and Dardanians were probably of the same stock, a mixture of aboriginal Anatolians and Luwians (such as could be found in nearby Arzawa), with later influxes of Hittites and Mycenaens
    Ancient greeks referred to Luwians as pelasgians too even that Luwian is known as indo-europian language

    Luwians are related to "LUD" and became "LYDIA" (Ant.1:6:4) in W. ASIA MINOR just as Isaiah 66:19 indicates as a location. His portion was "the land of Arara (Ararat)," and "the mountains of Asur (Assur)" (Jub.9:6). Herodotus 1:7 mentions "LYDUS" as the first king of Lydia (see 7:74). Egyptian monuments portray this nation of "LUDEN" as Semitic and not far from the fertile crescent. King Atys "divided the population into two groups and determined by drawing lots which should emigrate and which should remain at home ... his son Tyrrhenus to command the emigrants... They ... finally reached UMBRIA in the north of Italy, where they settled ... Here they changed their name from Lydians to TYRRHENIANS" (Her.1:94). They were also known as TUSCI or ETRUSCI from ETRURIA (Lempriere, pp.646,231). "The ETRURIANS (were) ... descended from a LYDIAN colony" (Lempriere, p.348; Tacitus Ann.4:55) and founded ETRURIA in N.W. ITALY (ibid., p.231) with Mount ALBAN to their south and the city of "ALBA" in Piedmont to the north and the Isle of ELBA to their west. "Dionysius of Halicarnassus quotes a tradition that the name (ALBANIA) arose from the alleged fact that the people were the descendants of emigrants from ALBA in Italy" (Encyc. Brit. 11th, 1:481). The ETRUSCAN language is closely related to ALBANIAN (Coon, Living Races of Man, p.57). The Caucasus region was also anciently called ALBANIA (Strabo map 12) and had an ELBRUZ Mt. (23:874, II C2) similar to the ELBURZ Mts. of Persia (21:188, B1). Today its called GEORGIA where we find "TSKHINVALI" and "TSKARO." The European ALBANIA has the "Ghegs" and "TOSKS" and the capital is called "TIRANA." Both ALBANIAS apparently have a GIRGASHITE presence. Some "TOSKS" are called "Chams" (Ham's) (Encyc. Brit., 11th, 1:484). The Persians knew the Asiatic province as "Gurjistan" (Encyc. Brit. 11th, 11:758). Even the original LYDIA dwelt next to "the land of Karkisha" in Asia Minor. A river in Macedonia was called "LYDIAS" (Lempriere, p.343) and another river in Germany was called "ALBIS" (Strabo map 6) later called "ELBE." A tribe of Albanians is known as the SHOSHI (1:485a) possibly Elamites from Susa Persia. As in other etymologies, the Hamitic LUD may have gotten his name from the Semitic LUD and therefore N. W. Africa is another colony.
    http://www.british-israel.us/1503.html
    More info from this level: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=16a1ad75fe
    More info about Etruscians (Tyrrheni, Tusci, Toskany...):
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...9&l=0deac217ab
    + http://www.etruscan-translation.com/
    + Etruscan - Albanian - English - Vocabulary
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
    ....
    + https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...0&l=1c4c6738d3
    ...and from here onward: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...8&l=a7334f738f...

    + Here you can read some
    inscription from these people, what can be read today so easly through Albanian language. Also see how other tribes (Illyrian-Thracian, or Pelasgian tribes) moved arund the Meditterean, specifically from Asia Minor to Balkans, drawn from the invasions of greeks, indo-europians or whoever. + *Lydia, Lybia, Luwia, Likia, Lycaonia (Lukka or Luqqa... in albanian Luq/lloq/ç... means something wet, backwater...) - in Asia Minor... Lyncests in Illyria, or near the lake of Ohrid (was called Lychni) between Albania and Macedonia... the Lake, in albanian is Liqen.
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page7

    And Dardanians are related whith Dodanim (from Japhet):
    - In Albania is the RODONI Cape (27:426, A2) and the town of DODONA in Epirus.
    http://www.british-israel.us/1502.html
    - The Dodonians were known to be an ancient people (cf. Iliad 2:748; Herodotus 2:52-57). The Targum renders it as Dardania, a city on the Dardanelles, after which the strait was named (cf. Herodotus 1:189, 7:43; Iliad 2:819).
    http://bible.ort.org/books/Torahd5.a...splayid&id=237
    - Dodanim has Rodanim as an alternative reading, and if so it will indicate the inhabitants of Rhodes.[4]
    The peoples of Rhodes were known as Rhodians or Dardani.
    - In the Bible Dardanim obviously refers to the residents of Asia Minor in the area of Troy which traces its origin to a certain Dardanus.? Later we find the city of Dardanus there and the surrounding area became known as Dardany.
    - Ancient historian, Ammianus Marcellinus refers to the Dardani as occupying Illyricum
    - A branch of Dodanim dwell to this day in northern Italy. They are concentrated in the north and northwest. In this regard, Pliny refers to the tribe of Dardi living in Apulia in Italy.[26] In the north-east they dwell near the Bavarians and Illyrians (related to the Albanians). They are of the Alpine sub-racial stock, comprising 25% of the population of Italy
    - According to tradition, during Niall’s reign, he traveled across the water to Alba where he engaged the Picts in battle, taking certain of the Pict royal family hostage - one from each of the kingdoms he conqureed - hence the nickname "Niall of the Nine Hostages"
    ...his brothers went to Alba Scotland
    Kenneth Mac Alpin was born at Iona, and died in 860. He was a King of Albany, and united the kingdoms of the Picts and Scots.
    CONSTANTINE I * was a King of Albany.
    DOMNALL II * was a King of Albany.
    CONSTANTINE II * was a King of Alba.
    MALCOLM I * was a King of Albany.
    DUBH * was a King of Albany
    KENNETH II * was a King of Albany.
    KENNETH III * was a King of Albany, Chief of Clan Duff.
    MALCOLM II * was a King of Albany. He was King of Scotland from 1003 to 1033.
    DUNCAN I * was a King of Albany. Duncan married Sybil
    LULACH (THE SIMPLE) * was a rival King of Albany, Chief of Clan Duff.
    MALCOLM III (CAENN-MOR) * was a King of Albany.
    ALEXANDER I * was a King of Albany.
    DAVID I * was a King of Scots. He united Lothian, Albany and Cumbria in 1124.
    __________________________________________________ ______
    CAMBO BLASCON18 * (BLASCON17, ALTHEO16, THUSCO15, HERCULES14, DODANIM13, JAVAN12, JAPHETH11, NOAH10, LAMECH9, METHUSELAH8, ENOCH7, JARED6, MAHABEEL5, KENAN4, ENOSH3, SHETH2, ADAM1)
    Child of CAMBO BLASCON * is:
    1. DARDANO19 *.
    http://www.cgca.net/coglinks/origin/...d_Japanese.htm
    - ISACON17 * (ELINUS16, DOHE15, BODB14, IBATH13, GOMER12, JAPHETH11, NOAH10, LAMECH9, METHUSELAH8, ENOCH7, JARED6, MAHABEEL5, KENAN4, ENOSH3, SHETH2, ADAM1)
    Children of ISACON * are:
    A. ROMANUS18 *.
    B. FRANCUS *.
    C. BRITUS *.
    D. ALBANUS *. According to the Leabhar Gabhala Earrainn, Albanus was the individual "who first took Albania, with his children, and of him is Alba named; so he drove his brother across the Sea of Icht, and from him are the Albanians of Latium of Italy."
    http://www.motherbedford.com/AdamGen01.htm
    The Septuagint translation states Ionan for Yavan, as well as Rodanim for Dodanim - For more details and explanation read Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, Book I, Chapter 6
    ______________
    Albania - Britania:
    - The name Briton originated from Brutus (a descendant of Elishah), the first king on Britain's mainland, arriving about 1100 B.C. Two sons of Brutus, Kamber and Albanactus, are referenced in English prehistory. From Kamber came Cambaria and the Cambrians (who integrated with the Gomerites [mostly Celts] and became the present-day Welsh). The descendants of Albanactus were known as the Albans (or the Albanach whom the Irish commonly called them). Geographers would later call the land Albion. The Britons (also Brythons), Cambrians and Albans populated the British Isles, which later endured multiple invasions, beginning with successive waves of Celts about 700 B.C. The Celts (or Gaels) called the land Prydain, their name for Briton. Those Celts (descendants of Gomer) integrated with the descendants of Elishah and Tarshish (sons of Javan), creating what some scholars called "a Celticized aboriginal population" in the British Isles. Some of the invading people groups were Scythians, descended from Magog, who became known as the Skoths or Scots. The name for the Celts or Cymru was "Weahlas," from Anglo-Saxon origins, meaning "land of foreigners"—Wales. The Welsh still call themselves Cymru, pronounced "Coomry." Later the Romans referred to the land as Britannia, invading there about 50 years before the birth of Christ. By the third century A.D., Jutes, Franks, Picts, Moors, Angles, Saxons and other groups were invading from surrounding Europe. In the sixth century A.D., Saxons called the land Kemr (Cymru), and the language Brithenig (Breton). The Angles eventually conquered Britannia, renaming the territory Angleland, which became England. Vikings invaded in the 9th century, and the Normans (or Northmen—former Danish Vikings) conquered England in 1066. Today, the British isles are settled by the ancestors of those people groups, which included Gomer and Javan (first inhabitants), plus Magog (later invasions by various people groups). http://www.michel-desfayes.org/namesofcountries.html
    http://www.soundchristian.com/man/
    + https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...3356751&type=1
    + https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...3356751&type=1
    ... the ancient city of Unuk (in the Bible is the first city ever built, equated with Enoch), later appears as Uruk and Erech, then as Wark or Warka by the Sumerians.
    * From Babel the three families of man would populate the earth, and here we have the beginnings of all people groups through Shem, Ham and Japheth
    http://www.soundchristian.com/man/
    See Peleg, the king of Babel... in his time the nations started to divide...


    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    Is Pelagasian a people or a linguistic dialect/language spoken by many different races?
    so, if you can make it clear who you beleive the albanians are we can check
    Pelasgian were the original most ancient dwellers of all around the Medditerean... and they started to distributed in other cultures (nations) and to interanct whith them, and melt away whith them... in one word, they started to be more heterogeneous... in this way, from pelasgian language, culture, were formed other later cultures, languages and nations and that part of pelasgians who decided to retreat in the mountains around (see careful in Balkan mountains, until in these late years, the only original inhabitants were albanians), called them self Alba (Arba), and they had the opportunity to preserve their original identity until today (no matter the effects from neighbors in language, but nevertheless, the original words of common language, remain alive until today, among others, and the method of comparing the language and etymology, proves this).

    Herodotus Book 8 Urania...the Pelasgians used to speak a Barbarian language

    The New York Times (1998)
    ...Strabo (7.7.1) and Pausanias (1.41.8) both offer the opinion that Hellas was once entirely or almost entirely inhabited by barbarians...

    The Greeks and Greek Civilization
    https://myaccount.nytimes.com/auth/l...=Q5fQ72Q3dQ32+ http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-...ery=Str.+7.7.2

    @ all: And now, stop deviating every topic whith your lack of information, because I don't want to believe that the barrier here to speak
    scientifically whithout emotions, hate... is pseudo-nationalism!
    ______________________________
    So, let's proceed whith the topic again: ...what about ancient Macedonia ?
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.196367803744330.45871.100001133356751&type= 1&l=1f8bcdeead

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    I have move this - again - into a separate thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    I have move this - again - into a separate thread.
    Yeah, it's either that or pistols at dawn...

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    I will not go into detail in my reply, but I'd like to issue a few general objections:

    - citing sources which try to link biblical genalogy into historical linguistics/ethnogenesis is neither a good idea nor is it scientific.

    - You're citing Z. Mayani, who's claim that Albanian is related with Etruscan is has been completely and thoroughly debunked, in particular due to the fact that the Etruscan language was evidently a non-Indo-European language, whereas Albanian is obviously and firmly an Indo-European language. I outlined parts of this here and here. As you can see, the original poster of the threads too believes Mayani's hypothesis, and you will find extensive counter-argumentation on my side how and why Etruscan is not Indo-European.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    I will not go into detail in my reply, but I'd like to issue a few general objections:

    - citing sources which try to link biblical genalogy into historical linguistics/ethnogenesis is neither a good idea nor is it scientific.
    Tell me about which conclusion of the above materials, you don't agree, or is problematic for you, and I will post you the same conclusion from another book, but not from "biblical genalogy" this time and to solve this "problem" :)

    - About Etruscans, I will answer you again, after we make clear the first objection

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    Quote Originally Posted by Besir Bajrami View Post
    Tell me about which conclusion of the above materials, you don't agree, or is problematic for you, and I will post you the same conclusion from another book, but not from "biblical genalogy" this time and to solve this "problem" :)

    - About Etruscans, I will answer you again, after we make clear the first objection
    Frankly, I don't know where to start. The (Neolithic) Vinca Culture was around 7000 years ago. It doesn't make any sense to claim a connection or continuity between them and the Albanians (or any other modern-day ethnicity). The same applies for the Pelasgians. We don't even know if the ancient words / name elements usually identified as "Pelasgian" really have any connection with the Pelasgians. Either way, any connection between these and the modern Albanian language makes no sense what so ever since the ancestor language of Albanian at the same time stage would have looked radically different.

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    I find the theory that albanians are descendands of people of the etruscan/pelasgian stock, fashinating.

    thought modern albanian is indoeuropean, while etruscan is not.

    i find also that albanians have some similar looks with italians

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    a curious thing in favour of etruscan-pelasgian-people from albania connection is the etruscans hat, similar to the albanian hat, the shape is similar thought i don't know if the hat is also turkish. or it must be similar but not with the same origins




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    Quote Originally Posted by julia90 View Post
    a curious thing in favour of etruscan-pelasgian-people from albania connection is the etruscans hat, similar to the albanian hat, the shape is similar thought i don't know if the hat is also turkish. or it must be similar but not with the same origins

    Albanian white qeleshe or plis (just like todays arvanites are named as greeks, in the same way, the old pelasgian culture in ancient times, they call it greek).





    1=Odysseus (in albanian Odhisti/Udhisti... traveler)
    2=Uliks
    3=Odysseus
    4=Hefest
    5=Theti (deity of the sea and water, today in albanian Deti=the sea), runs to pull weapons of Achilles, to "divine" Hefest. All the three have the todays albanian plis/qeleshe in their head (Rome show about Iliad at Colosse-2007, the Archaeological Museum of Naples)
    6=Hefest
    7=Illyrian type of a plaque found in today's Croatia near Dubrovnik
    8=Poseidon
    9=Through the Etruscans (Pelasgians), the subsequent Roman people named "pileus libertatis" (plis of freedom), here presented in the currency printed by the Roman Brutus after Caesar's murder.
    10=Antique statues in Labëri (also similar to this
    :http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3040852_n.jpg)
    11=Ajax & Achilles playing Draughts

    * Starting from the Plis/qeleshe of ZEUS (Zojsi/Dias) up to Bardulus [(white - star Dardanian/Bardhanian Bardh(white) yll(star)], all these are symbols of freedom to Albanians, you can see this link for more: http://picasaweb.google.com/11509262...96537464102946
    Here we have Zeus:
    "A19 SG#0671 Bruttium, Lokroi Epizephyrioi, possibly from the time of Pyrrhus. AE 20. 300-268 BC. First part of 3rd Cent BC. Conjoined busts of the Dioskouroi right wearing PILEI - Zeus enthroned holding patera nd Sceptre, cornucopiae behind, LOKRWN. SNG Cop 1895. HN Italy 2399. Sear 671. 4.9g."
    http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5347599_n.jpg

    Here we have Pyrro whith his people with plis/qeleshe and crown from the sacred oak of Dodona




    To keep cultural traditions and in proving that to whose people (culture) he belong, he is identified with the eagle and all the other symbolism (like the two horns that appear in this picture) that derive from Thot (Idris)>Deukalion (Dhulkarnejn)> Troyans> Alexander the great> and through him, to Castrioti, who besides that inherited the same culture, but he kept the figure of Pyrrhus in his sword too:
    http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/3...enderbeyg0.jpg


    Originally Posted by Besir Bajrami
    Let's proceed:
    Ancient artifact from Vinca culture (or Goddess on the throne) and modern (still ancient:) albanian dress from Kosovo (part of ancient Dardania)







    If we pay attention to the tradition, even today in albanian culture, when the girl become e women, when she get married (albanians get married only in Thursday and Sunday), she have to stay just like this, in that position (folded), like the mysterious artifact there.
    Thursday is womens day. For the bride they say: "U bë Nuse Venuse" - "You become e Bride a Venus"... alb.:"Ve"- eng.:"Egg" - alb.:"Nuse" - eng.:"bride"... Venus)
    Also, when in "the first night" she have to stay whith her man, tradition requires that she have to sit in the symbol of the half of Cosmic Egg (albanian white hood - "Plis" or "Qeleshe", is only a man cap), turned back, and to put in the head the another half, just like the symbol of Zeus here:




    So, like the seed that came from the Cosmic Egg or the Egg of the Worlds and brought the life, and the Bride "emerges" from the Egg and bring life in that house.

    In fact the entire albanian national dress represents that pelasgic religion, or symbolizes God/Almighty Creator.
    Even the sleeves of the dress (Guna) that don't have to be wear but to connect behind, symbolizing comb / wings of divinity. For old religion (or better to say, from that original religion, what was copied latter from other cultures, especially from the Semitic peoples) says that when the Creator created life from the cosmic egg/egg of worlds, he was presented with comb/wings ...
    This kind of theory of creation is writen somehow and in the Bible indireclty in Genesis.
    Here you can see the symbolism of Comb/divine wings in albanian dress:




    See more in page 5 in this topic about some other albanian national costumes and their symbolism:
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page5




    So, here we have this wonderful figure from the book of Artur Cook about Zues, who have two qeleshe/plis in above and below... Plis/qeleshe symbolizes the on half of the cosmic egg, from which "egg" God created all things, created life.

    Otherwise, the Illyrians have used several types of hats/plis/qeleshe (fez-hat-cap-lumpy) similar to each other.
    Dardanians have used round (or half circle) qeleshe, in use today by albanians in Kosovo. Dardania latter was from Nis (Naisus) to the Bylazora (Veles), Astipi (Shtibi), Skopje (Skupi), Tetovo (Oaeneum), Gostivar (Draudakum) ...
    From mountain in southern Bukovik up to the Ohrid, Gostivar, Struga, Debar and to Mavrovo, have lived Penestians whith the capital Uscana (Kicevo), and this Illyrian tribe had flat plis/qeleshe, at the time of Skanderbeg is called Dibran, because was in use of all regions of Dibra. North Albania holds also flat plis/qeleshe but is much shorter from dibra region. Southern Albania holds the round plis/qeleshe but much longer than it from Dardanians (see 10) - Laberian plis/qeleshe.
    Headgear that the Albanians be using the time of the ancient Illyrian-Pelasgians. White fez, kilt, tirqit, mintani with black braids, or Albanian xhubleta (4.000 years old at least), still alive ... Well, these are the Albanian original heritage , because no nation in the world has not previously used except Albanians and yet we have remained without any break tradition.


    - Zeus-Poseidon; Zues-Hades; Zeus
    http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...4_329405_n.jpg

    - Dielli (Sun) and Merkuri (Hermes/Thot/Idris)
    http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6580153_n.jpg

    -This one os from Illyrian tribe PHRYGASE or Bryghians, aliie whith Troyans (not to say the Troyans itself)
    http://www.forumishqiptar.com/attach...1&d=1213317762

    - Apollo
    http://www.grisel.net/images/greece/Olympia79.JPG

    -Here we have the famous apple, which fez Atlas whith qeleshe/plis in the head gives it to Hercules who hold the weight of the world with the help of Athens
    http://www.grisel.net/images/greece/OlympiaHercules.JPG

    - PATROCLES and ACHILES
    http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/...patroclose.jpg

    - Odysseus
    http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8...aramontoq7.jpg

    - Collection Albani
    http://i48.tinypic.com/5lth05.jpg
    http://i47.tinypic.com/2n8n9fn.jpg
    http://i47.tinypic.com/spaeiq.jpg

    Trojans


    Trojans:
    http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/13/54/17/87/568-od10.jpg


    This vase (where is Illyrian Kadmi whith qeleshe/plis) preserved in the Louvre Museum - Paris
    Plis in lab variant, called a qeleshe, and usually has an little "antenna" on top, as Illyrian Kadmi in this very important artifact.

    Kàstor (greek Κάστωρ, -ορος, lat. Castōr, -ŏris) e Pollùksi or Polideuks (greek Πολυδεύκης, -ου, lat. Pollūx, -ūcis) these two names are from Greek and Roman mythology, twin sons of Zeus and Ledia, known above all as "sons of Zeus", as well as the Kàstor




    + http://www.fotografo.to/to1/images/f...o-IMG_0270.JPG

    + Ancient Macedonians http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3040852_n.jpg



    Zeus, Athena and Hephastius


    ...somewhere in the recesses of the Vatican!
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6849517_n.jpg

    S33.2 DIOSKOUROI

    Museum Collection: Museo Archeologico Nazionale di Napoli, Naples, Italy
    Catalogue Number: TBA
    Title: "Dioscuri"
    Class: Free-standing statue
    Material: Marble
    Height: --
    Context: --
    Original / Copy: --
    Style: --
    Date: --
    Period: Imperial Roman
    SUMMARY
    One of a pair of statues, depicting the Dioskouroi twins, with travellers caps, chamlys capes and horse-heads by their feet
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3054070_n.jpg

    Achille chez le roi Lycomede, Louvre museum
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6277591_n.jpg


    Let's see somthing from books, because like I always do:
    Encyclop℗edie M℗ethodique, Ou Par Ordre De Matieres: Par Une Soci ..., Volume 3
    By F℗elix Vicq-d'Azur, Jean Le Rond d' Alembert, 1786
    Quote: Ce bonnet étoit fait ep cône, 8c ressembloit à un casque. A la plaçe de l'aigrette de celui-ci, on attachoit à ï'apex une baguette recouverte de laine blanche , appelée proprement apex. De là vint le nom des Flamines, selon Servius, a Filaminibus. II est inutile de faire sentir le ridicule de cette étymologie. La forme de ce bonnet, qui ressembloit un peu à la cause ou casque Macédonien, le fit appeler bonnet d'Epire ou d'Albanie, pileus Epiroticus. Les Grecs le nommoient v'Ui,ut<


    Il perfetto dittionario overo tesoro della lingua volgar Latina
    1666
    Pietro Galesini

    http://i53.tinypic.com/2hwisye.png

    http://i52.tinypic.com/15g35w9.png







    + http://i43.tinypic.com/1pvsy1.png
    + http://i40.tinypic.com/nlafzr.png


    ...


    Video:
    Albanian Hat - Odysseus, Patroculus, Ptolemey
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1tvmnc3cVU

    ... and President Clinton also gave a symbolic message to the world about the albanian Plis/Qeleshe


    Read more about albanian qeleshe/plis:
    THE “IGNORANCE” OF THE ‘QELESHE’ http://zeus10.wordpress.com/
    And this one, just in case... http://zeus10.webs.com/

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by julia90 View Post
    a curious thing in favour of etruscan-pelasgian-people from albania connection is the etruscans hat, similar to the albanian hat, the shape is similar thought i don't know if the hat is also turkish. or it must be similar but not with the same origins




    that hat is pilos and is not only etruscan albanian etc we find it in myceneans also in statues in minor asia,

    is the hat we might say as pelasgian,
    its origin might be from Levant or minor asia,

    simply because we find that hat does not mean that all albanians,
    Besir is trying to say that Albanians were the center of Pelasgian culture,
    while Iapetoc had another way ,
    according which pelasgian were a culture of west Ugarit-levantine, non phoenician who migrate to aegean created cyclades minoan, and pelasgian in north (Kadmus story) and return to palaistine etc
    while the north part at troy wars left for etruria (1200-800 BC) (pelasgian argos) that was taken by aeolians when thyrrenians left
    an old branch from Theba invaded North mixed with Celtoids created Illyrians,

    searching the Albanian language by many we find common words remnants of Pelasgian,

    but true Albanians were the Thracian tribe albocense from Dacia who migrated in today albania pushed by Slavs, or Northen toyrkoi
    to the city of germidava,
    also a case of Cumans since Anju creator of Alba was cuman, and a possible mix of Thracian+italians +illyrians that happened at at Arbano (Germidava) as written in Maniakis Army who was an elite of troops in south Italy, and redraw at 1040,

    I find the Kadmeian case more logic, if compare the HG and the linguistic,
    than the case that center of all pelasgian was Albania and even they migrated to palaistine,
    (maybe Goliath was Albanian?)

    the difference is that from homer we realize that achilleus and odyseuus and Ajax-Locros were different tribes that spartan and myceneans,
    Odysseus might be Pelasgian, Achilleus might be Thracian, and ajax surely as Locri was Grekos

    that is the difference among Besir and Iapetoc,

    the source center of Pelasgians, and where they split and who were their remnants,
    in Fact Iapetoc if you read him claims that Hebrew have much of pelasgian by posting the work of Yehunda,

    the thing that Besir is claiming is that E-V13 in ALbania is founder effect who spread from there, and not a Arcado-cypriot as we all know, transfered by Illyros son of Cadmus
    the paradox is that if Pelasgian according Iapetoc gave the alphabet to Greeks at least 1000 BC why in albania we do not have written forms and written language at least until 1500?
    in fact that is the paradox in Balkans, thracians used sometimes the Greek alphabet like in erzerovo ring, Illyrians used Greek letters and later Messapic
    since center of pelasgians was Albania as claimed by some, that means that alphabet must be older there and spread from there !!!!

    Besir is using Herodotos to say about Pelasgians but does not say that first mention in History of Pelasgians is Smyrna area and minor asia, which means Pelasgians where minor asians who migrate west.
    also do not say that thoukidides say that recogns Thyrrenian as Pelasgian,

    in the gennetick Maciamo started at thread about if G might be Levantine,
    considering that in ancient etruscan tombs we find enough G which later might migrated North, as also the E-V13 that exist in Balkans, and maybe the J2
    we find enough in thesally as also in in Etruria, and some parts of Albania,
    that means that might have a common ancestor nation, but where was the center?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    that hat is pilos and is not only etruscan albanian etc we find it in myceneans also in statues in minor asia,

    is the hat we might say as pelasgian,
    its origin might be from Levant or minor asia,

    simply because we find that hat does not mean that all albanians,
    Besir is trying to say that Albanians were the center of Pelasgian culture,
    while Iapetoc had another way ,
    according which pelasgian were a culture of west Ugarit-levantine, non phoenician who migrate to aegean created cyclades minoan, and pelasgian in north (Kadmus story) and return to palaistine etc
    while the north part at troy wars left for etruria (1200-800 BC) (pelasgian argos) that was taken by aeolians when thyrrenians left
    an old branch from Theba invaded North mixed with Celtoids created Illyrians,

    searching the Albanian language by many we find common words remnants of Pelasgian,

    but true Albanians were the Thracian tribe albocense from Dacia who migrated in today albania pushed by Slavs, or Northen toyrkoi
    to the city of germidava,
    also a case of Cumans since Anju creator of Alba was cuman, and a possible mix of Thracian+italians +illyrians that happened at at Arbano (Germidava) as written in Maniakis Army who was an elite of troops in south Italy, and redraw at 1040,

    I find the Kadmeian case more logic, if compare the HG and the linguistic,
    than the case that center of all pelasgian was Albania and even they migrated to palaistine,
    (maybe Goliath was Albanian?)

    the difference is that from homer we realize that achilleus and odyseuus and Ajax-Locros were different tribes that spartan and myceneans,
    Odysseus might be Pelasgian, Achilleus might be Thracian, and ajax surely as Locri was Grekos

    that is the difference among Besir and Iapetoc,

    the source center of Pelasgians, and where they split and who were their remnants,
    in Fact Iapetoc if you read him claims that Hebrew have much of pelasgian by posting the work of Yehunda,

    the thing that Besir is claiming is that E-V13 in ALbania is founder effect who spread from there, and not a Arcado-cypriot as we all know, transfered by Illyros son of Cadmus
    the paradox is that if Pelasgian according Iapetoc gave the alphabet to Greeks at least 1000 BC why in albania we do not have written forms and written language at least until 1500?
    in fact that is the paradox in Balkans, thracians used sometimes the Greek alphabet like in erzerovo ring, Illyrians used Greek letters and later Messapic
    since center of pelasgians was Albania as claimed by some, that means that alphabet must be older there and spread from there !!!!

    Besir is using Herodotos to say about Pelasgians but does not say that first mention in History of Pelasgians is Smyrna area and minor asia, which means Pelasgians where minor asians who migrate west.
    also do not say that thoukidides say that recogns Thyrrenian as Pelasgian,

    in the gennetick Maciamo started at thread about if G might be Levantine,
    considering that in ancient etruscan tombs we find enough G which later might migrated North, as also the E-V13 that exist in Balkans, and maybe the J2
    we find enough in thesally as also in in Etruria, and some parts of Albania,
    that means that might have a common ancestor nation, but where was the center?
    very interesting
    I initially thought the albanians originated in dacia but have recently seen script saying they where molossians from the pindus mountains.
    Would these dacian albanians be solely tosks, while the ghegs be from northern greece?

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    Any -dava toponyms in Albanian territory? Dacia was full of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    very interesting
    I initially thought the albanians originated in dacia but have recently seen script saying they where molossians from the pindus mountains.
    Would these dacian albanians be solely tosks, while the ghegs be from northern greece?
    that is the origin of Albocense according Strabo amd their colony is Germi-dava,
    indeed Anju family and many big Albanian families are connected with Alba Lullia,
    that is when Albanians started to spread assimilating local illyrians and aromanis
    in the lands of albocense later migrated Kumans, famous families where Anju Hunjades etc
    there a was a pre-albanian substractum in Illyria, the Germidavians,
    later at maniakis time his army centered there,
    slowly, we have movements from Romania to Albania starting after 1200 when the 1rst wave Arbanites moved to Greece,
    under an invitation of a roman ruler,

    there is no way mollosians being Albanians,

    and I would like to hear your source,

    Albanians are a Dacian tribe who colonised Illyria, and from there spread,
    original Albanians are considered the arberesh who moved from Romania with Byzantine army to sicily to Albania to Greece and then back to sicily,

    who have assimilation of older population of Illyrians (Celtic+Pelasgic) and later roman by migrated Albanians,
    just compare it with new world,
    from a few starting colonies, the American continent is almost assimilated by Europeans, Linguistic, but not ethnically, the assimilation created new nations-cultures,
    so we consider a 'white' one as American, US citizen from >200 years, but we also consider a 'black' one from south plantation and also an Indian from Sioux nation for example, but if we go back in time we find tottally different nationalities,
    it depends on what time we see,
    before Colombos there were many nation in America,
    After we have the old Nations (maya-aztecs incas sioux iroquois etc) plus British spanish Dutch francais portoquese,
    after few revolts we the USAers, the Mexicans, the brazilians the Argentinians,

    so it is wrong to name Mexican an aztec at 1400
    an aztec is modern Mexican ,
    But we can not say Mexicans are from America and all mexicans are Aztec, or the Europe is Mexican expand,

    now about Tosk and Geg, yes there is a difference,
    I do not know exactly and I do not want to expand,




    try to understand what means founder effect,



    Quote Originally Posted by razor View Post
    Any -dava toponyms in Albanian territory? Dacia was full of them.
    yes there is another one in modern Albania and few more in Kossovo bosnia and fyrom,
    like kellidava

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post

    Albanians are a Dacian tribe who colonised Illyria, and from there spread,
    original Albanians are considered the arberesh who moved from Romania with Byzantine army to sicily to Albania to Greece and then back to sicily,
    Why they are not Illyrians which retreat from Dacia?

    Do you now Dacia was heavily colonized by Illyrians?? the tribes of Dalmats, Sardeats, Piruistes etc, colonized Dacia as miners, and then retreat in Dardania and etc..

    What do you think about Dacian-Thracian-Illyrian conection? Simmilar people which lived together, for long time, with same origins, even they incvaded together, for example Dardanians (which are called alternately thracians and illyrians) inmvaded Anatolia, built Troy etc.

    And why do you think illyrians vanished in their homeland (where logic says they were stronger) but they saved identity in the diaspora / Dacia (where logic says they were weaker, sa they were diaspora) and then came to Albania/Kosovo??? Or maybe they saved identity since there they met their brothers Dacians which spoke the same language, so there was not danger of assimilation???

    Why, you have no answer for all these problems??? Or why your answers don't explain anything but just make it more dificult, and you don't live answer for anything???

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    Mind you, the root is not only found in Latin "albus". The root word is probably Proto-Indo-European and also found in other branches, including Celtic (compare 'Alba', 'Albion', 'Albiones') and Germanic (compare English 'Elf', German 'Elb').

    Another issue is, the term "Albanians" is an exonym, not the self-designation of the Albanians (which is Shqiptar), and that is a huge difference. It's the same as with "Germans" and "Deutsche" or "Welsh" and "Cymry".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    Mind you, the root is not only found in Latin "albus". The root word is probably Proto-Indo-European and also found in other branches, including Celtic (compare 'Alba', 'Albion', 'Albiones') and Germanic (compare English 'Elf', German 'Elb').

    Another issue is, the term "Albanians" is an exonym, not the self-designation of the Albanians (which is Shqiptar), and that is a huge difference. It's the same as with "Germans" and "Deutsche" or "Welsh" and "Cymry".
    i think you are right.

    Albus, is very indoeuropean, in the case of german and celtic, what does it mean?

    in latin, white
    also the Alps, derive from it, meaning white (mountains)

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    Quote Originally Posted by julia90 View Post
    i think you are right.

    Albus, is very indoeuropean, in the case of german and celtic, what does it mean?

    in latin, white
    also the Alps, derive from it, meaning white (mountains)
    In the case of Celtic:
    - "Albion" is an ancient name for "Britain" that was recorded by the Greeks
    - "Alba" was the name of a kingdom in Scotland in the medieval ages, and is also today the Scottish Gaelic name for "Scotland"
    - the "Albiones" were a tribe in modern-day Galicia.

    In the case of Germanic:
    - An "Elf" (plural "Elves") are mythological beings or magical creatures from Germanic mythology and folklore. To pick an example from popular culture, they are popularized in the Lord of the Rings.
    - The German word for nightmare, "Albtraum" also aludes to the elves and literally means 'elven dream'.
    - The river name "Elbe" probably means "white river".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    Mind you, the root is not only found in Latin "albus". The root word is probably Proto-Indo-European and also found in other branches, including Celtic (compare 'Alba', 'Albion', 'Albiones') and Germanic (compare English 'Elf', German 'Elb').

    Another issue is, the term "Albanians" is an exonym, not the self-designation of the Albanians (which is Shqiptar), and that is a huge difference. It's the same as with "Germans" and "Deutsche" or "Welsh" and "Cymry".
    I think the word elf is after another meaning

    elf in northern many things by with south is connected with deer (ελαφ-ος)
    elf might be connected with hunting tribes or cultures who wear deer horns etc mainly deep forest culture
    godess artemis living and worship style,
    ιερα ελαφος

    while the word alba exist in Greek as alabastros albiona
    probably connection of word white or change of al with la
    remember the stone for stone is la
    so maybe in latium is mountain Albani but if it original was mount Labani means rocky mountains as in Pelasgian minoan etc
    compare the word La-riss = Stone fortification or rocky nose (acropolis)
    Lapis in italian
    Lapis lazuli
    Labrys (the stone hammer)

    personnaly both are accepted

    since albion is also the white seagull
    (compare albatros) etc
    Besides albion (england) in Greek means land of seagulls

    alba must be also connected with alabaster

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    Quote Originally Posted by Besir Bajrami View Post
    This part of your post, is provocative, outside the topic (and makes me to react... in this way the topic deviates),and it's continuation of the propaganda that some of the southern slavs and new greeks, not not convenient the albanian autochthony, for millions of devouring reasons. The administrators should take action when we found these kind of deviations, thus promote long explanations (from another member), to make the "question" clear, and what is not related directly whith the topic

    I'll say it again, because you are mad about the truth, Albanians do not decend from Illyrians. Albanains began to appear in the middle ages, alot of migrations happened in the middle ages. Albanians coverted to islam under the ottomans, this is why they were able to grow in the 500 years, the product is modern day albania.

    Look, read, take it in, and understand I know you are mad because Albanian history is constructed around this notion of Illyrianism, but it is false, and albanian intelectuals should speak out against this delusion.

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