The Sarmatians in Britain!

I know one thing that Sarmathians certainly brought to Britain - look at Cymru flag - it had Sarmathian dragon.
"The Romans, in turn, likely adopted this symbol of war and authority from their Sarmatian foes of the eastern steppes, taking draco standards as spoils of war, as documented by the reliefs on the base of emperor Trajan’s column. The draco was made of a metal dragon’s head and a tubular fabric body, not unlike a modern wind sock, with the fabric body flowing in the breeze behind the head."

trajandraco.jpg

Sarmation draco detail from a relief at the base of Trajan's Column (A.D. 113-117), Rome.

http://www.tattoosymbol.com/just-for-site/welsh-dragon.html
 
I know one thing that Sarmathians certainly brought to Britain - look at Cymru flag - it had Sarmathian dragon.
The strange thing is that the Roman ceasars recruted Sarmatian (Iranic) warriors and had even Sarmatian bodyguards! So they trusted them. And on the other side the Romans fought against the Iranic peoples in the East!
 
I thought it was Parthian rather than Sarmatian.
I think a number of steppe origin peoples adopted this as a war symbol. The Parthians seemed to prefer the Scythian archer on their coins though. Incidentally, there are interesting "dragon" allusions in the Old Ukrainian legends. The multiple fortifications (many of them excavated) which stretch south of Kyiv near the border with the steppe were traditionally called the "Dragon Walls" (Zmijevi Valy) They were used, abandoned, repaired and reused for a very long time. The "dragons" were obviously the aggressive steppe populations at various epochs. Curiously some of these are also associated with the Kyiv Foundation Legend: the second "brother" of the founding trio in that legend bears the name "Serpent" (Shchek) and there was a hill by his name in Old Kyiv ("Shchekavytsja").
 
I heard about this theory before. They say Roman soldiers sent some Sarmatians, as well as some people from the occupied Balkan region to Britain to fight against other tribes and some settled down. They link the presence of E, in addition to I to them also. How accurate this is is uncertain to me. Could be coincidence, as other explanations are also possible. But it's still interesting nonetheless.
 
There's some Gedrosia admixture-dna component in Northwest Europe (mostly among folks with Germanic roots) . It's possible that it was brought by Iranic tribes for the east (Asia). Germanic and Iranic tribes had contact with each other in Eastern Europe.
 
There's some Gedrosia admixture-dna component in Northwest Europe (mostly among folks with Germanic roots) . It's possible that it was brought by Iranic tribes for the east (Asia). Germanic and Iranic tribes had contact with each other in Eastern Europe.

Gedrosian component was brought in Europe by R1b guys. I reaches highest values in Basques and gradually drops while you move clockwise from Iberia to Scandinavia.
 
1- I am not aware that Y-I could be a typical HG of Sarmatians peoples I see as Y-R1a + (some Y-G2 bearers? only the Alans, perhaps) - it is possible that some Y-I2a1>>I2a1b could be from old enough times in the Steppes (I am almost sure) but I don't see them as a major component of Sarmatians or Scythes or Alans or...
2- Rome send a lot of exotic legions to Brittain as to other lands - without any precise SNP it is hard to decide which ethny came with which Hgs: it concerns Y-E1b, Y-J1, Y-J2, some Y-G, some Y-I2 (of all sorts)...
3- the surveys we have are very scarce concerning samples sizes FOR EVERY SMALL REGIONS so when speaking about the rarest HG (lower represented in %) I think we have to be carefull...
4- Western Germanic in contact with Iranic peoples??? when? where? all of them were not Goths or Vandals?!? were there Iranic people in the Basque country?
5- Dragons? are we sure they are the propriety of an unic culture?
 
I saw a doco yesterday and it had proof that the sarmatians where posted between hadrians wall and glasgow in the years between 200 to 250CE

They brought the R1a, T, I , L and G ydna Haplogroup in these parts of scotland, I presume England as well.

I was wondering if anyone has the subclades of these markers in Scotland
 
you are able to see through walls !?! (joke, no offense, take it easy) - it would be better saying they can have brought some SNPs of these Haplogroups - Y-R1a was brought also by Vikings principally and some bits by other germanic tribes or soldiers - Y-G was brought surely by some neolithic agriculteurs or shepherds - Y-I2 (not Y-I1) was brought there maybe too by some neolithic people and for I believe, by some Bell beakers -Y-T and Y-L could have been send there by other 'exotic' soldiers at service for Rome...
 
I saw a doco yesterday and it had proof that the sarmatians where posted between hadrians wall and glasgow in the years between 200 to 250CE

They brought the R1a, T, I , L and G ydna Haplogroup in these parts of scotland, I presume England as well.

I was wondering if anyone has the subclades of these markers in Scotland

I was reading about William the Conqueror or the Bastard whichever you prefer. When he conquered England he advertised all over Europe for help and support to suppress the natives with promises of land and so on. All those weird Hg of R1a, T, I, L, G could be from those foreign supporters. Hg L would be the gypsies. Famous gypsies : Rita Hayworth, Elvis Presley, Charlie Chaplin, Michael Caine, etc. Hg T would be ancient as Thomas Jefferson was of the Hg T. Georgian Josef Stalin and Otsi were of Hg G which is very ancient. Of course, the Vikings are Hg I, R1a and R1b
 
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I was reading about William the Conqueror or the Bastard whichever you prefer. When he conquered England he advertised all over Europe for help and support to suppress the natives with promises of land and so on. All those weird Hg of R1a, T, I, L, G could be from those foreign supporters. Hg L would be the gypsies. Famous gypsies : Rita Hayworth, Elvis Presley, Charlie Cahplin, Michael Caine, etc. Hg T would be ancient as Thomas Jefferson was of the Hg T. Georgian Josef Stalin and Otsi were of Hg G which is very ancient. Of course, the Vikings are Hg I, R1a and R1b

if you are auxillary troops in the Roman armies ( basically foreigners) , you had to serve 25 years in the army before you became a Roman citizen.........enough time to sow your seeds to a large degree.
 
I asked myself how I2a-din ended up in Britain. And now I found the answer!

Marcus Aurelius send 5500 Sarmatians to Britain!

"Archaeological evidence of Sarmatians has been found also at Chesters ..."

http://books.google.nl/books?id=XKU...es chester&hl=nl&pg=PA151#v=onepage&q&f=false


And not the Germanic tribes but Iranic tribes were the real power around the Black Sea and North of the Balkans!

Incredible, didn't know that Emperor Galerius (293-311) even had a Sarmatian bodyguard!

95704057.jpg

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I took this from page 50-51 from this book:
http://books.google.nl/books?id=yVw...yges chester&hl=nl&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false



more about this subject: 'From Scythia to Camelot', by C. Scott Littleton and Linda A. Malcor
http://ossetians.com/eng/news.php?newsid=370

I think there is a Doggerland, the land bridge between the British Isles and the continent that disappeared when the sea level rose after the Ice age ended. Some of the Hg they found from bones were of Hg I2 very similar to those in the Netherlands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-kingdom-swamped-tsunami-5-500-years-ago.html
 
Its called a Draco and its Sarmatian. ( saw it in the doco)

http://www.fectio.org.uk/articles/draco.htm

You might be thinking of the parthian and bactrian auxillary troops whic Rome sent to iberia.

Yeah I thought the draco was found in several cultures, Iranic, Thracian/Dacian, and others. The Romans could have taken it from either them or the Parthians.

But I'm still kind of doubtful about the lasting presence of these people in Britain, personally.
 
The forms found there, called 'Isles' and 'Disles' by Ken Nordtvedt

Nordtvedt is not a accurate or reliable source. In any event, the I2 found in Southern Scotland at small % is anglo-scots, not a Gaelic population, and if 'Sarmatian' has been there for more than 2k years which is certainly within a time frame to develop new SNP not found in a Dinaric donor population=Sarmatian.

The problem is, this region is far from being isolated or mono-cultural, and we know almost nothing about the Picts who would have long inhabited this region. Isles-I2 could be accounted for as a mutation of continental I2, you can theorize about Sarmatians,..etc..., or you can wistfully ponder the unknown ethnicity/language/genetics of Picts, but the outcome is you cant prove any of them, its complete and total conjecture absent ancient DNA results within a culturally identifiable context for comparison.
 
Aha, nice blog. I believe the Sarmatian Knights were sent to Britain over a 200 year period ( not only 5500 troops) and most retired in Britain. They formed the Legio VI under the Roman/ Dacian officer Arturius Castus. Very compelling arguments by Dr Linda Malcor and others on this. She wrote the dialogue for King Arthur. Movie regarding same Sarmatian Knights.

I argued in the u152 section for my PF 4363 link to an I2a in Sardinia, perhaps linking to Sarmatians in Britain I am U152+ PF4363+
from Chelmsford ( Caesaromagus) in England.
Rich C
 

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