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Thread: Dr Doug McDonald BGA analysis results

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    Dr Doug McDonald BGA analysis results



    I recently sent my raw genome data from 23andMe to Dr Doug McDonald for his BGA analysis. My paper ancestry is largely English with an emphasis upon Yorkshire and Suffolk. I have a substantial Norman ancestry too in terms of numbers of Norman-derived surnames in my family tree and from pedigrees and paper-trails.

    The results were remarkably accurate. His PCA scattergram placed me firmly within the English cluster, with a small pull towards northern France which probably reflects this Norman ancestry.

    Would other posters care to exchange their McDonald analysis results and experiences? I would welcome them.

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    In my case he told me 100% Spanish placing me at the top of the cluster. I am very close to one of the Behar Spaniards (the sample he uses) with mostly Catalan heritage too. For what I saw in different admixture analysis (other projects), both of us get very similar results, so I think it's quite accurate.

    However, actually Dodecad is my favorite.

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    He correctly decoded me as Georgian although I've sent him my data anonymously :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    He correctly decoded me as Georgian although I've sent him my data anonymously :)
    That is seriously impressive! Dr McDonald seems more accurate in general than 23andMe, plus more up to date regarding sample populations.

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    For what I saw, you Kardu are not the "typical" Georgian. But in this cases when the person deviates a little, the program still shows the cluster wich reflects better your ancestry.

    The same happens in Spain with some of the non Basque Northeast Iberians. In Doug McDonald analysis we are inside the cluster (at the top), but in more accurate admixture as for example Dodecad or Eurogenes, we are easy to distinguish from the "main" population. And I guess the same happens to you while comparing with the Georgian averages in different projects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    For what I saw, you Kardu are not the "typical" Georgian. But in this cases when the person deviates a little, the program still shows the cluster wich reflects better your ancestry.
    What do you exactly mean? :) All my known ancestry is Georgian, my kin is attested in Georgia since early middle ages, and I have that so-called 'West Asian' component higher than some other Georgians :)

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    Aha! mm Perhaps I confused you with another Georgian. I thought you had higher West & East Euro + Mediterranean than the average, and also some Southwest Asian.

    ¿Do you have more West Asian than the Georgian average sample? (I don't mean the Dodecad participants). If it's like this, I was definetely wrong.

    PD: I think this is the sample used by Doug McDonald too. The Behar Georgians, with 72.3% West Asian in average. Very high.

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    OK, no you were not mistake I guess. Here are my Dodecad data:

    Dodecad:

    0.01% Scandinavian
    4.36% Volga_Region
    5.93% Altaic
    14.88% Celto_Germanic
    63.47% Caucassian_Anatolian
    5.11% Balto_Slavic
    6.24% North_Atlantic

    Dodecad v3 k=12

    4.2% East European
    6.6% West European
    22.2% Mediterranean
    50.8% West Asian
    4.9% South Asian
    0.6% South-East Asian
    10.6% South-West Asian

    As for Behar's Georgian, we have tried to discover who were those tested, but without success. Indeed their West Asian component is too high. Probably they are from some isolated village...

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    East European - 7.2%
    West European - 14.1%
    Mediterranean - 17.7%
    West Asian - 45.8%
    South Asian - 4%
    Northeast Asian - 4.4%
    Southeast Asian - 3.1%
    Southwest Asian - 3.7%

    This is Georgian average

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    Thanks Kardu.

    Yes, it seems you Gerogians are very diverse, and the Behar samples were collected in a extremely isolated region, although there are 4 individuals deviating too.

    Then, focussing in Doug McDonald's work, the program still found your highest similarities with the mentioned Georgian sample, from the Behar study. Of course, your results are fairly different from those, but there's no other group more similar to you as I said.

    More samples from Georgia are required to see different sub-groups there, I guess.

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    Yes, certainly, we desperately need more data from Georgia.
    I am aware of 2 more Georgians who sent their raw data to Prof. McDonald and he correctly identified them too.

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    He usually identifies people correctly, even considering that apreciable differences exist.

    I think it would be good to see as much people as possible from near the Caucassus, since there are surely very interesting samples around there. I'm personally curious about Ingush people since Maciamo posted their haplogroup frequencies, and they show extremely high J2. It's possible they really are the most West Asian people, quite similar to those isolated Georgians or even more.

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    By the end of the year we will have results of 5 more Georgians (all from old nobility, so there is lot of historical evidence about their lines for many centuries) and we try hard to promote testing but it's not an easy task :)

    As for Ingush (and Chechens) indeed they have high West Asian component as well, but the dominant hg among them is J2a4b*, and among Georgians J2a* is widespread and they are about 12-15 000 years old, much older than Ingush cluster.

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    We'll see the 5 Georgians you mention how do they look. For what you say they have possibilities to be more or less the same as the Behar ones :)

    Don't know much about Ingush and their subclades, but if they appear to be quite similar to Chechens, then they are far from those Georgians. Well, it's too early to take conlsusions about their autosomal results, and it's good to keep in mind that haplogroup distribution between Chechens is fairly different from Ingush people. We'll have to wait for more information, but in my opinion J2a4b* could perfectly match the West Asian admixture, the same as J2a* and others.

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    I don't know enough about Georgian dna to comment, but I do know that McDonald definately has the edge on 23andMe regarding Western European dna. My green spot on his map covers Yorkshire and East Anglia and the red spot hones in on Yorkshire too. This reflects a majority Germanic-derived English genetic profile very accurately.

    To reiterate, I cluster firmly in England with a small pull to northern France which probably reflects Norman admixture. I imagine that the bulk of the Scots and Welsh might cluster nearer to the Irish on his PCA map?

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    You are right about Scots, but concretely Southwest Scots. In some of the Eurogenes plots they cluster very close to Irish, although Cornish people clusters even closer. Not sure about Welsh, I assume the most ethnic ones would get very similar reports too. That was clear when Eurogenes included a North Atlantic component (quite present along the Atlantic fringe, Iberians included), and those groups as well as most of the Irish, got the highest scores.

    Another thing is some Irish and people from the Northernmost of Scotland, sometimes deviate to Scandinavians, and surely must be due to the Vikings. These people of mixed heritage probably clusters with the Orcadian and the Orkney samples, from the HGDP and 1000 Genomes projects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    You are right about Scots, but concretely Southwest Scots. In some of the Eurogenes plots they cluster very close to Irish, although Cornish people clusters even closer. Not sure about Welsh, I assume the most ethnic ones would get very similar reports too. That was clear when Eurogenes included a North Atlantic component (quite present along the Atlantic fringe, Iberians included), and those groups as well as most of the Irish, got the highest scores.

    Another thing is some Irish and people from the Northernmost of Scotland, sometimes deviate to Scandinavians, and surely must be due to the Vikings. These people of mixed heritage probably clusters with the Orcadian and the Orkney samples, from the HGDP and 1000 Genomes projects.
    I have never done Eurogenes but I imagine that you are correct regarding a genetic affinity between some of the Irish and the people of south-west Scotland. I imagine too that some Lowland Scots, especially from the Lothian area in the south-east [Edinburgh etc] might well cluster with English people like myself due to their heavier Germanic component through the Bernician and Northumbrian Angles and the Anglo-Normans.

    I agree too regarding your comments on Scandinavian influence. This influence really extends to my native county of Yorkshire in England too and I get Scandinavian and Orkneys matches on 23andMe. My McDonald position is definately in England though, with this pull towards northern France.

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    Vikings surely carried genes in all Britain, but a substantial impact it's only considered to exist between some Irish and Northern Scotish. At least, for what I have read in several threads at 23andme.

    Genome wide or relative finder matches sometimes is not the best indicator for ancestry (full admixture). For example, in my case, being almost entirely Catalan, my highest Genome Wide match is an Angloamerican, having several of similar ancestry very close to this one. And my relative finder is composed mostly of Angloamericans, being my highest matches a Southern French (this one makes sense) followed by a Swedish with four grandparents there.

    If you don't join Dodecad and Eurogenes, I recomend you to do so. Both will give you a better idea with the different components, and colud help also to clarify better your Norman ancestry.

    PD: I sent you a private message ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    OK, no you were not mistake I guess. Here are my Dodecad data:

    Dodecad:

    0.01% Scandinavian
    4.36% Volga_Region
    5.93% Altaic
    14.88% Celto_Germanic
    63.47% Caucassian_Anatolian
    5.11% Balto_Slavic
    6.24% North_Atlantic

    Dodecad v3 k=12

    4.2% East European
    6.6% West European
    22.2% Mediterranean
    50.8% West Asian
    4.9% South Asian
    0.6% South-East Asian
    10.6% South-West Asian

    As for Behar's Georgian, we have tried to discover who were those tested, but without success. Indeed their West Asian component is too high. Probably they are from some isolated village...
    Very interesting. You seem also to have moderate frequency of "South Asian" (most probably ANI). And your Results seem more similar to that of an Anatolian Kurd than average Armenian. I already noticed that indeed there seems to be more a fluent transition between Georgians, Kurds, Turks and Iranians while Armenians and Assyrians seem to form their own cluster.

    This is really interesting. It can be compared to axes. Iranians, Georgians, Kurds and Turks build a horizontal axes from east to west. While Assyrians and Armenians build a vertical axes from south to north.


    Here are the results of the only Anatolian Kurd we have so far.

    DOD 834
    East European 3.9%
    West European 6.4%
    Mediterranean 24.8%
    West Asian 41.4%
    Southwest Asian 12.5%
    South Asian 7.7%


    A Kurd with roots in Northwest Iran
    DOD 731
    East European 5.6%
    West European 7.9%
    Mediterranean 20.3%
    West Asian 41.7%
    Southwest Asian 11.2%
    South Asian 9.4%

    You see the fluent transition from east to west?

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    These are my Eurasia7 results:

    West Asian - 71%
    Atlantic-Baltic - 7,5%
    East-Asian - 1,9%
    Southern - 19,6%
    SubSaharan 0%
    South Asian 0%
    Siberian 0%

    According to McDonald that South Asian might be related to Sindhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    These are my Eurasia7 results:

    West Asian - 71%
    Atlantic-Baltic - 7,5%
    East-Asian - 1,9%
    Southern - 19,6%
    SubSaharan 0%
    South Asian 0%
    Siberian 0%

    According to McDonald that South Asian might be related to Sindhi
    Yes that is. Like we already know. The so called "South Asian" component is actually made up by two other very distinct components. ANI and ASI. ANI is very close to West Asian as well shares similarities with West/East European. It is ancestral to Kalash, Sindhi, Afghans, Northindians and other more Central Asian populations while ASI is ancestral to South Indians and more similar to pacific groups. Among Kurds the South Asian seems to be similar to Kalash.
    Last edited by Alan; 04-11-11 at 10:43.

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    Uouu Kardu, in the Eurasia7 results you are pretty much Georgian than at higher resolution using a K=12 style or the Euro7 Calculator, very focussed in West Eurasia.

    The same happens to me. In both K=12 or the Euro7 Calculator I'm clearly distinctive from Spaniards, but this time I'm much closer. The only thing I noticed here is that I'm the closest one to Gascons and Basques, but just a bit more. However, my results usually look "very Catalan".

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    @ Alan

    Yes, on Decodetome if I run my data through Asian populations, I stand apart but the closest ones are Kalash.

    @ Knovas

    True, here are the euro7 results:

    ‎53.80% Caucasus
    0.01% Northwestern
    3.03% Northeastern
    36.96% Southeastern
    0.00% African
    0.90% Far_Asian
    5.29% Southwestern

    And as for Catalan-Spanish distinction I guess among Spanish there are also regional distinctions.

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    Yes, of course there are regional distinctions. I think for example in something like this:

    - Northwest Iberians: Including Gallicians, Asturians, and people who is ethnically from the Northwesternmost of Castilla y León. We must assume quite of them look very similar to the Portuguese, or viceversa, doesn't matter.

    - Main Spaniards: Vast majority of both Castillas (León & Mancha) and Extremadura, although some individuals from there could deviate to Portugal. Most people of very mixed heritage we have in Cantabria, Valencia, Catalonia, etc., would also fit here.

    - Southern Iberians: Including people from Southern Valencia, Murcians and vast majority of Andalusians.

    - Basque influenced Spaniards: I guess people from Northeast Castilla y León, some people from la Rioja, Northern Navarrans and North Aragonese. Passiegos seem to be more or less the same as Basques, but we could consider them apart. People from Álava would be also necessary to separate from Basques, and put it here.

    - Northeast Iberians: Some Navarrans, a lot of Argonese, people from Northern Valencia and, of course, ethnic Catalans.

    If one day there are enough samples to do so, I'd really like that Dienekes' makes as many divisions as possible.

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    By the way, I remember a Gallician who wasn't identified as 100% Spanish with Doug McDonald's tools, when all the rest got this set of population by default (what I said about the most simillar population). He had to guess it, and he guess it good, but the program failed.

    Not sure about the markers detected using the program. The guy seems to get typical results for a Gallician in both Dodecad and Eurogenes. I supose there are just a few cases of this.

    Also, another guy, but this was a White American, got an absurd ancestry painting from the program. I think even Doug wasn't able to find an explanation for this.

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