The Albanian language

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Gjiton native word?
Zitel in Macedonian slavic = Inhabitant

I meant "native" in the sense of "native to the Albanian language" (as opposed to borrowed from elsewhere, such as Greek, which Yetos proposed as an etymology for the word). Alternatively you might say that I proposed that the word was derivable from a PIE root via Albanian's own sound laws.

To give you an analogy, the words "cow" and "swine" are native to the English language, but the words "beef" and "porc" are borrowed from French.

Who is the native here? Supporting something without knowledge is very dangerous.

The word "native" has no geographic connotation here at all.
 
or proto-slavic took this word from another source and Albanian form a different one. The original meaning for "brig" is a hill whereas in Albanian now this only means "shore" and nothing else as far as I know. We have the eg. for the word "preug" - prag (Alb).

Albs also have fort (strong) and burg (prison)


in breton (celtic) 'bre' means 'moutain' or 'high hill' and 'briell' means 'bank' (compare 'breg' albanian for "shore") and 'bri' means 'esteem', 'regards', 'admiration' : it is as said Taranis I suppose: not surprising: the meanings of words are broad & moving even if they keep a kind of links within them - height, honour and hill, mountain, bank have all of them a meaning of height -
 
Gjiton native word?
Zitel in Macedonian slavic = Inhabitant
Who is the native here? Supporting something without knowledge is very dangerous.
It seems as if we're fighting for the native ownership of IE words. It would be ridiculous thinking that way!
All IE peoples are equally its "owners", regardless a certain word appears to be native of.
Such a "danger" perception means ... just to be sorry a lot indeed.
 
There are numerous Greek and Latin words which come to be very much alike with Albanian participles, eg:
“mat” (v) = “measure”, “weigh”;
“matur” = the participle of “mat”;
“i matur” (adj. masc.) = 1- “prudent”; 2- “measured” (adj);
“e matur” (adj. fem.) = 1- “prudent”; 2- “measured” (adj);
“e matura” (def. adj. noun) = 1- “the what is prudent”; 2- “the what is measured”;
“maturi” = “prudence”, “providence”, “caution”;
“maturia” = “the prudence”.
As we can see, the Albanian “maturi” (prudence) does not come from Latin “mature” (ripe).
Here is the Albanian word “pjek” (ripe):
“pjek” = “ripe”;
“pjekur” = the participle of “pjek”;
“i pjekur” (adj.) = “mature”, “ripe”;
“djale i pjekur” = “mature boy”
“pjekuri” = “maturity”, “ripeness”.
At the first sight, there is no relation of Albanian “maturi” (prudence) and latin “mature” (ripe), but their meanings are very much similar.
Well, may be it’s a coincidence. The problem is that such coincidences are more than hundreds, may be thousands.
Can someone explain it?
Taranis, is it really hard for you to grasp it?
Well, here are some other words just to show you what I mean:
Albanian word
Albanian participle
Latin word
Kry/kre = 1- head; 2- do consciously
Kryer /krier/
Crear/e
Struk = to hide (from enemies or atmospheric agents, esp. into a cave)
Strukur /strukur/
Structur/a
Ze/zë = occupy, posses, catch
Zonë (zënë) /zon/
Zon/a
Kënd/oj = sing
kënduar
cantare
Lëshoj = release (original word: lë/le = let)
lëshuar
lashare
Rrufe = Levin;
Rrëfej = confess, tell, show
rrëfyer
referre
 
Taranis, is it really hard for you to grasp it?

Well, what am I supposed to say? It's not hard to grasp that you are obviously biased in your opinion and you already have a foregone conclusion: that Albanian is a pure, ancient language, virtually unchanged for thousands of years and that Latin, Greek, etc. etc. all borrowed from Albanian which is the "mother of all languages"? That's pure nonsense, and my opinion doesn't change from the 'evidence' that you post.

Well, here are some other words just to show you what I mean:
Albanian wordAlbanian participleLatin word
Kry/kre = 1- head; 2- do consciouslyKryer /krier/Crear/e
Struk = to hide (from enemies or atmospheric agents, esp. into a cave)Strukur /strukur/Structur/a
Ze/zë = occupy, posses, catchZonë (zënë) /zon/Zon/a
Kënd/oj = singkënduarcantare
Lëshoj = release (original word: lë/le = let)lëshuarlashare
Rrufe = Levin;
Rrëfej = confess, tell, show
rrëfyerreferre

On a purely theoretical level, how likely is it that Latin, a language that is already attested from the 7th century BC, and which eventually gave rise to an entire language family (the Romance languages, which are attested from the Medieval Ages onward as separate languages), is supposed to have borrowed from a modern language?! I would say, the chances are none.

Also:

- "lashare" is not a Latin word.

- "referre" is obviously derived from the word "ferre" ("to bear", to "carry"), with the prefix "re-". There's many other Latin words which are formed with prefixes from "ferre": adferre, conferre, inferre, offerre, sufferre, transferre.

- "zona" is a loanword from Greek, from ζωνη ("zōnē"). Latin doesn't have a native *z sound.
 
ok explanation maybe will help

Arbanitan from 4 islands Ydra island

Ljiaese na perguljia major meaning is you get a bath a wash under the vineyard, or you take a sunbath under a vineyard,
I have seen both translations but more possible is first

This text still makes no sense to me... (in the meaning that I know no similar Albanian words similar to those)

Arbanitan of North AThens and Leyktra
do ta press kotsidet gliate, nte tsi throuim nte i tate, Do ta pres kotsidet, lieto vente (vante) filaki
I will cut your big (long) pigtails, but I afraid your father I will cut your pigtails, let me go (even if I have to go) to prison

Kotsidet, throuim, and filaki make no sense again. Vente in that meaning there is weird, cause in modern Albanian, vente is third person singular so it cant be translated "let me". Vante is Gheg version and that /a/ is a nasal /a/ (correctly written it should have a cap on like this ^ but above the /a/).

For Tate i took the wild guess meaning yours (the most used versions), but in middle Albania (between Shkumbin and Mat) especially in Tirana dialect they still use it for dad (who still speaks in dialect), and is very common in Tirana traditional/popular (popular, not famous but people songs) songs

Kleft Arbanites of Thessaly
bante tsupra te billete lioulie
go girl (lady - miss) to gather flowers

Bante is weird in that meaning, and I'm sure is modern Albanian Bënte (modern Gheg-Bante with the cap /a/). Tsupra still the wrong guess by me. Modern Albanian equivalent is Çupa (tshupa since ts is the albanian c and tsh is ç). Billete similar word to Albanian would be mbledh. Maybe are the same word, maybe not. Lioulie is weird cause it has 3 vocals but if it really means flowers, Albanian would be "lule".
 
This text still makes no sense to me... (in the meaning that I know no similar Albanian words similar to those)



Kotsidet, throuim, and filaki make no sense again. Vente in that meaning there is weird, cause in modern Albanian, vente is third person singular so it cant be translated "let me". Vante is Gheg version and that /a/ is a nasal /a/ (correctly written it should have a cap on like this ^ but above the /a/).

For Tate i took the wild guess meaning yours (the most used versions), but in middle Albania (between Shkumbin and Mat) especially in Tirana dialect they still use it for dad (who still speaks in dialect), and is very common in Tirana traditional/popular (popular, not famous but people songs) songs



Bante is weird in that meaning, and I'm sure is modern Albanian Bënte (modern Gheg-Bante with the cap /a/). Tsupra still the wrong guess by me. Modern Albanian equivalent is Çupa (tshupa since ts is the albanian c and tsh is ç). Billete similar word to Albanian would be mbledh. Maybe are the same word, maybe not. Lioulie is weird cause it has 3 vocals but if it really means flowers, Albanian would be "lule".

correct
lets take them one by one
 
you are right, it is Lodrene, I just check it, sorry for writing it wrong


try this

Ljiaese na pergouljia

Do ta press kotsidet gliate

nte tsi throuim nte i tate

Lieto vente (vante) filaki


bante tsoupra te billete lioulie !!!!!

seems these are mixed Alb/Greek words written by a non-Alb

let me try:

Ljiaese na pergouljia - laheshe ne (pergoulja-i guess this is Greek word) - washed under ...

Do ta press kotsidet gliate - do ta pres gershetin e gjate - I will cut your long pony tail hair

nte tsi throuim nte i tate - por qe turpem nga yt ate - but I am afraid of your father

Lieto vente (vante) filaki - ??? this I do not understand


bante tsoupra te billete lioulie - vente cupa te mblidhte lule - the girl went to pick flowers
 
seems these are mixed Alb/Greek words written by a non-Alb

let me try:

Ljiaese na pergouljia - laheshe ne (pergoulja-i guess this is Greek word) - washed under ...

Do ta press kotsidet gliate - do ta pres gershetin e gjate - I will cut your long pony tail hair

nte tsi throuim nte i tate - por qe turpem nga yt ate - but I am afraid of your father

Lieto vente (vante) filaki - ??? this I do not understand


bante tsoupra te billete lioulie - vente cupa te mblidhte lule - the girl went to pick flowers
pjergull means "hardhi" or grapevine, exists in albanian
 
i asked why Orel's etymology was right, you responded with words from other languages without saying anything else

I see your point, and I gave you the answer,
If you want to search more ask for Grim's laws
 
pjergull means "hardhi" or grapevine, exists in albanian

I had never heard "pjergull" till now, but I asked and apparently it exist as a word, among "hardhi" and "vreshta", all meaning "grapevine". Though, at least "pjergull" and "vreshta" show different types of "grapevine".

Any one has any idea of the origin of this 3 words which basically mean the same thing?
 
pjergull means "hardhi" or grapevine, exists in albanian

yes, it's true - pjergull of course exists with the meaning you mention. it's just that the way the words are written make them look Greek or some other language.
 
Pjergulla e rrushit is pergola of grapevine, vreshta/vneshta is vineyard, hardhi e rrushit is grapevine. There is one more name in use in Kosova, gixha e rrushit which I do not know how to translate.
 
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Pjergulla e rrushit is pergola of grapevine, vreshta/vneshta is vineyard, hardhi e rrushit is grapevine. There is one more name in use in Kosova, grigja e rrushit which I do not know how to translate.

correct pergola. and is not Greek.

the word is imported in Greek, exist only in Athens, so it is imported by arbanites in modern Greek,
the Greek word is κληματαρια σκαλωσια, klimataria and skalosia are after words κλιμαξ (stairs) and scale -Scala(stair step, Aromani and Byzantine word), skalosia could also be imported, since original Greek is Βαθμις Vathmis-Bathmis

so how the word Pergola pass in Albanian language? or it is native to that language?
 
yes, it's true - pjergull of course exists with the meaning you mention. it's just that the way the words are written make them look Greek or some other language.

the words are written in Greek alphabet, by arbanites them selfs, some mistakes maybe are from my personal effort to write them in Latin alphabet, and I don't deny that, if I write them in Greek I do not know how many would understand it, that is why I wrote down the meaning in English in post #216, so to be easy to compare.


would it be easy to you? if I wrοte
λ(z)ιαεσε να περγκουλ(z)ια


or the one I wrote, with english meaning,


PS
when we write down the vocabulary of language-dialect, Science tell us that we must write down the exact sounds as they exist, and not as they should be in comparison,
so the writing down of Arbanitika since 1700 (much before Greek revolt) is in Greek mainly, and Francais
then we try to connect it with other known languages and dialects.
 
ok lets see, first

ljiaese na perguljia
in Greek alphabet
λιαεσε να περγκουλια (λζιαεσε να περγκουλζια)
you take a bath-shower under the pergola
or you take a sunbath under the pergola

the phrase is after an Arbanitan song from about 1800 of around Hydra area so the most possible is the first meaning
lets compare with Greek
λουεσαι στην περγκολα louese stin pergkola you take a bath under pergola
λιαζεσαι στην περγολα liazese stin pergola you take a sunbath at pergola

now if Kessi's liahese is the correct in Albanian what we see?
the word louese liaese liahese (Gr Arb Alb) is the same,
pergola seems to be imported to Both from Latin (maybe I am wrong)
so the only difference is Greek στην or υπο with Albanian na which seems to prevail in Arbanitan Speech
 
what is the root of the word "louese"?

laheshe - means "you washed"
root in Alb is: laj - wash

Laj is pronounced as the English word: lie
 
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