The Albanian language

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I would agree, but I posted as this is what I recently read. I still maintain 2 scenarios for what I think.

1 - they migrated from somewhere,

2 - my preferred. - They where always there but under a different name. History tells us there where 14 Epirote tribes and 8 Dardanian tribes, not including macedonians or paeonians.
History also says the illyrians clashed with triballi ( thracians ) , macedonians and epirotes as they moved slowly south, but NO mention of albanians. If and when the illyrians conquered parts of the northern epirote tribes like the Enchelees no mention of albanians where found
The epirote alliance mentions tribes , that where epirote both coastal and inland but still NO albanian name.
The macedonians took all of epirote under theire rule under Philip II, still no albanian names under macedonian archives.
The Romans conquered the Macedonians under Philip V in 194BC and took all epirote, macedonian, montengrian and greek lands and still NO albanian names.
ONLY in 100AD was the first named albanian tribe appear in old Epirote lands and later ( modern times) the area has Epirote archeological finds.

If there was no migration for the albanians then clearly it would be a name change similar to the naming of vlachs for Romani ( thracians) . Besides most of the Archeological finds in albanian areas inland have been epirote.
IIRC Hans Hahn ( if I spelt it correctly) had a very good version of how the albanian issue arose.

From the ottomans to the turkish way of thinking - in Turkey the Epirotes used to be called Albanians because they knew the Albanian language." If the Epirotes provoked other Greeks they might also be called "Albanians" because, to the Greek, that was an expression of contempt.



zanipolo simply outrageous

no further comment, soon I will write about that when I finish the book i am reading,


Zanipolo epirotes = graoi = greeks, you just have to search Homer and Cyme to understand that,


there is an answer to your bold letters by 3 medieval writers,

Better search again the schisma era and maniakis,
do you know that in Arbanites exist also Normand words?
 
zanipolo simply outrageous

no further comment, soon I will write about that when I finish the book i am reading,


Zanipolo epirotes = graoi = greeks, you just have to search Homer and Cyme to understand that,


there is an answer to your bold letters by 3 medieval writers,

Better search again the schisma era and maniakis,
do you know that in Arbanites exist also Normand words?

why are you being nationalistic ?

Let me say that ptolemy only mentioned the word Albani in 150AD, the word mostl likely would have come from his knowledge of celtic as Alb means snowy mountains, Albani would only mean people from the mountains. basically, like northern Italains are called Alpini due to them living in the alps, while the Po river dwellerers where called Padani ( Roman word Padanus)

If we start from the Roman times of 100AD , we find the area was called PRAEVALITANA and the only tribes there where these;
Parthini - coastal north
Taulantii - coastal south
Eordaei - inland south
Bryges - Inland middle
Dassaretae - inland north

No Albani in this area which is Albania

If we look at all the albanian tribes named later on they are:
Boga
Kelmendi
Dushmani
Mirdita
Toplana
Hoti
Lohja
Nikaj
Kvasniqi
Bytyci
gruda
Berisha
Gashi
Merturi

None are Illyrian, the only one which might match the Epirote tribe is the Bytyci with Bryges

So, the questions are - (1) what where the Dardanian tribes called and (2) what language did the Epirotes speak, granted the northern parts slowly learnt Illyric and the south learnt greek and in the end they all learnt Latin.
 
why are you being nationalistic ?

Let me say that ptolemy only mentioned the word Albani in 150AD, the word mostl likely would have come from his knowledge of celtic as Alb means snowy mountains, Albani would only mean people from the mountains. basically, like northern Italains are called Alpini due to them living in the alps, while the Po river dwellerers where called Padani ( Roman word Padanus)

If we start from the Roman times of 100AD , we find the area was called PRAEVALITANA and the only tribes there where these;
Parthini - coastal north
Taulantii - coastal south
Eordaei - inland south
Bryges - Inland middle
Dassaretae - inland north

No Albani in this area which is Albania

If we look at all the albanian tribes named later on they are:
Boga
Kelmendi
Dushmani
Mirdita
Toplana
Hoti
Lohja
Nikaj
Kvasniqi
Bytyci
gruda
Berisha
Gashi
Merturi

None are Illyrian, the only one which might match the Epirote tribe is the Bytyci with Bryges

So, the questions are - (1) what where the Dardanian tribes called and (2) what language did the Epirotes speak, granted the northern parts slowly learnt Illyric and the south learnt greek and in the end they all learnt Latin.

1) First of all don't trust Albanian names, cause they change through istory and by Hodza, Hodza order that no religious name must be given


2) a) is Alvanopolis like Alviona (England) and not albanopolis
b) Alvanopolis of Ptolemy according the rest city names are given fits exactly with Dacian Germidava, Greek Thermidava. so if you follow Ptolemy then surely your insist drops cause you know that Germidava was Dacian colony,

3) the names of the tribes you mentioned are Thracian like Bryges-Phrygians or Illyrian, and some exist in Greece next to Pelasgian Argos (Atallante)


4) the thing that we must understand is that Albanian language has its own Grim's laws, meaning that is a language, but when we search the Arbanites and Albanians as toponyms and language we find big imports,
the answer is that Albanian was not a local language, but imported when Germidava was established, and then grew,
the history gives Dyrrachion to be a non Albanian city at about 1000-1500 (can't remember writer but I will find, that is why i did not answer, and the other reason is that I am looking for Arbanites surnames and toponyms)
cause Albanians are mentioned to be 1/4 of population.
so what happened,
the answer is at Maniakis army which after the revolt against Con/polis create a unification movement, that by time become a nation, (that happens always, when a nation is created, and we do not make nations according HG)
the later history of Epirus Despotate, something that you must read to understand,
then read about Huniades Ουνιαδης and Anju origin, and you will understand why from 1/4 of population become primary,

the connection of Albanian with Elder Nation tribes is another thing,
Just consider that Arbanites Castle-Prison-Ακροπολις is Μπουρτζι Burgi and is not connected with Greek Πυργος
but with Germanic Burg ( a Normands or Goths word?)
the existance from Pelasgian to Illyrian to Messapian to Thracian is because the unification movement was happened when today Albania was multinational.

a good example to you is word Bucuresti Bukur + nest or εστια, and Alba Lullia (Huniades-Anju Homelands)

so Taranis is correct about Cizarec's line, simply the pass of the line had happened by 2 colonies that Dacians create under the line and one is the one you mention Alvanopolis or Germidava,

Search for ArBanites toponyms and vocabulary and History, and then you will understand,

words like Κουγκι Kunki the word that Arbanites used for monastery- holy place - cemetery is similar to Dacian Kongaionion (Konka+aionion)
words like Zaratoba (toponym) meaning old town-village (compare Zara with Stara)
let me finish the reading and I will you more,

connection of Albanians with Epirotes (except chammerians) with Albanian does not exist,
Chammerians are a unique case

btw I am reading Bintliff works if you are interested
 
Wait, what? This discussion isn't about "lesser" or "worthy" and it certainly isn't about prejudice. These are emotional words, which have no room in a scientific discussion. Talking in the context of languages about "worthiness" is silly in my opinion. I do not appreciate you implying that I am biased about the Albanian language.

We are all biased creatures Taranis, as I said, it is difficult to break the memes/habits. I am aware of it myself. As for the scientific approach, we all need to be open minded in order to reach to the answers that we desire.

I apologize if you felt insulted, that was not my intention.
 
@Zanipolo some of the names are not clan (fis) names, such as Bogë for eg (it is a place name).

Anyway, my opinion is that Albanians are a mixture of three components. If we start from the Roman empire time my theory (and a deep belief) is that we are created from the substrate of Praevalitanians with Dalmatian mixture (today's Dukagjini and Malcia e Madhe), Dardanians who were not considered exactly Illyrians (part of todays Kosovo that we generally know as Drenica & Llap) and Epirotes with a mixture of Macedon (I believe that Epirotes were a mixture of Illyrian tribes).

In Dukagjini region we still preserve the name Prevalla and Dula which is in the Prizren region, and according to the map below (from wikipedia) Prizren regjion was in Praevalitana.
220px-Dardania_and_kosovo.png


So here is my "food for thought":
Preavalitanians could be the Gheg speakers with an influence of old Dalmatian from the Malcia/Malsia (for me Malcia is a Dalmatian stock) whose dialect is not 100% Gheg, it resembles sometimes with Tosk. Ex-Dardan region nowadays speaks a Gheg dialect but the pronunciation of the "u" and "o" vowels is different and the Dukagjini speakers mock them. Epirus on the North could be a mixture of Gheg (due to the influences by Praevalitanians) while south is Tosk. So Tosk could have been the mixture of Illyrian speakers, why? Some words/expressions that are Illyrian can be found in Tosk dialect but not in Kosovar Gheg for e.g.
 
This link should help you guys on the quest of finding the origin of albanian language and people
http://mudrac.ffzg.unizg.hr/~rmatasov/Albanian.pdf
not everything may be correct in the paper, but is a good try.
Anyway Taranis, what you should understand is that Albanians were in their present location before the Slavs migration, since their dialectial division started earlier.
Therefore common sense tells me that since the Albanians were there before the Slavs and the Romans didn't record any migration they must be one of the Illyrian tribes,
I also wanted to add something about missing maritime terminology. We know that the Romans settled in the cities which are located in the western (lowland) part of Albania. The mountens are not far from the sea in Albanian territory (in some parts like the south they are right next to the sea and in some other parts maybe 40-50km way), which means that the Albanians were living in the mountens and lost their maritime terminology.
I am listening to everybody sayin that " Oh but they don't have maritime terminology and they must have been developing in the mountens" and I agree with that, but you should take into to account the distance of Albanian mountens from the seashore.
I hope that I made my point clear.
Cheers
 
This link should help you guys on the quest of finding the origin of albanian language and people
http://mudrac.ffzg.unizg.hr/~rmatasov/Albanian.pdf
not everything may be correct in the paper, but is a good try.

I admit that I have only glanced across that paper (yet), but what I read thus far has been excellent. Thanks for sharing this.

Anyway Taranis, what you should understand is that Albanians were in their present location before the Slavs migration, since their dialectial division started earlier.
Therefore common sense tells me that since the Albanians were there before the Slavs and the Romans didn't record any migration they must be one of the Illyrian tribes,
I also wanted to add something about missing maritime terminology. We know that the Romans settled in the cities which are located in the western (lowland) part of Albania. The mountens are not far from the sea in Albanian territory (in some parts like the south they are right next to the sea and in some other parts maybe 40-50km way), which means that the Albanians were living in the mountens and lost their maritime terminology.
I am listening to everybody sayin that " Oh but they don't have maritime terminology and they must have been developing in the mountens" and I agree with that, but you should take into to account the distance of Albanian mountens from the seashore.
I hope that I made my point clear.
Cheers

I agree that Albanian is far more likely to have been at (approximately) it's modern location since before the migration period and I also think that the scenario of an arrival at the current location after the Slavs is clearly impossible. I also think that your argument regarding the geography of Albania concerning the geography of Albania is rather valid, and that this would explain the situation in Albanian that we see.

The only point in your post where I'm not sure if I can agree on or not is the question how old the dialects of Albanian are. I find it unlikely that the Gheg/Tosk distinction is older than the Migration Period.
 
I admit that I have only glanced across that paper (yet), but what I read thus far has been excellent. Thanks for sharing this.



I agree that Albanian is far more likely to have been at (approximately) it's modern location since before the migration period and I also think that the scenario of an arrival at the current location after the Slavs is clearly impossible. I also think that your argument regarding the geography of Albania concerning the geography of Albania is rather valid, and that this would explain the situation in Albanian that we see.

The only point in your post where I'm not sure if I can agree on or not is the question how old the dialects of Albanian are. I find it unlikely that the Gheg/Tosk distinction is older than the Migration Period.

while the article is indeed interesting , it poses other questions which need to be cleared up.

1 - while agreeing that there was no uniform illyrian language as this agrees with roman articles naming the area Illyricum but the people either liburni, dalmati, pannoni etc etc, then as per the article that it ( albanian)was know in Dubrovik seems strange. Dubrovik until 100years ago was always known as Ragusa, history shows it was under the republic of ragusa and was one of only 2 cities not under control of Venice ( the other being trieste) . The ragusan people ( dalmatian ) had a language of their own, a language which as its history states was dalmatian ( an illyrian one ), mixed over time with venetian.
Would not the ragusan archives state albanian?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatian_language

2- what happens to the other illyrian known languages ie messapic and north picene are they now classified as italic fro north picene and maybe Epirote for messapic considering they heavily supported Pyrrhus on his Roman adventure?

3- since I can read venetian from the 12th century, the example claimed to be venetian ( old or current ) are inaccurate.
money ( italian soldi ) is Schei
Shabby is Chiatrin or scarcagna depending on person or thing
under is Zo'
 
while the article is indeed interesting , it poses other questions which need to be cleared up.

1 - while agreeing that there was no uniform illyrian language as this agrees with roman articles naming the area Illyricum but the people either liburni, dalmati, pannoni etc etc, then as per the article that it ( albanian)was know in Dubrovik seems strange. Dubrovik until 100years ago was always known as Ragusa, history shows it was under the republic of ragusa and was one of only 2 cities not under control of Venice ( the other being trieste) . The ragusan people ( dalmatian ) had a language of their own, a language which as its history states was dalmatian ( an illyrian one ), mixed over time with venetian.
Would not the ragusan archives state albanian?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatian_language

2- what happens to the other illyrian known languages ie messapic and north picene are they now classified as italic fro north picene and maybe Epirote for messapic considering they heavily supported Pyrrhus on his Roman adventure?

3- since I can read venetian from the 12th century, the example claimed to be venetian ( old or current ) are inaccurate.
money ( italian soldi ) is Schei
Shabby is Chiatrin or scarcagna depending on person or thing
under is Zo'

What connection have Ragusa with Epirus and Epirus Nova?
 
read xyz link


well I read at Strabo and PS Skylax.
14 tribes and archegonus Hellas and Chaonians were Greek speakers.

besides search the word ΚΟΙΝΩ ΑΠΕΙΡΟΤΑΝ.

You probably about the Arta Despotate and Tocco or Tosco Family which was an Albanian invasion-migration to Epirus.


cause before of that the alternate names especially of Mollosians are Aeacidae Αιακιδες.
by finding out who Aiakides werethen you understand,
any connection of Aeacidai with Aea (Colhis) were LPIE are mentioned?
any connection of Aspetos with early Greco-Aryan before Mycenean?
wonder why Strabo names Epirotes as Proto-Greeks and not as areas colonized by Greeks?
 
well I read at Strabo and PS Skylax.
14 tribes and archegonus Hellas and Chaonians were Greek speakers.

besides search the word ΚΟΙΝΩ ΑΠΕΙΡΟΤΑΝ.

You probably about the Arta Despotate and Tocco or Tosco Family which was an Albanian invasion-migration to Epirus.


cause before of that the alternate names especially of Mollosians are Aeacidae Αιακιδες.
by finding out who Aiakides werethen you understand,
any connection of Aeacidai with Aea (Colhis) were LPIE are mentioned?
any connection of Aspetos with early Greco-Aryan before Mycenean?
wonder why Strabo names Epirotes as Proto-Greeks and not as areas colonized by Greeks?

Its odd how some peoples posts that you/we reply to disappear!

Anyway, the INX link is also based on modern ( mussolini era) linguistic link which serve no purpose in my want of knowledge for this albanian people/language.

I presented logical questions trying to establish what these neighbours of ancient albanian spoke and why there is no link with them. FBS mad a nice comment but it was removed?
Clearly the link , states that Dalmatian language up to 16th century was illyrian based and was not linked to albanian.
Messapic , once said was also illyrian yet has nothing to do with albanian language, so what I am trying to say , is if these ancient neigbours of albanian where illyrian, then why is there no link with these languages.
If messapic , north picene old dalmatian are all different yet all called from the illyrian family , then ..........
If dardanian is a thracian,macedonian,illyrian mix then where is evidence of this language and it cannot be linked with the dardanian of the troad in anatolia because then that states the illyrian where also in anatolia.

Clearly, what i gathered is that every "illyrian" language was different and albanian was a language fabricated by it surrounding neighbours languages over time and had a chance to develop due due to its isolation in the mountains.

As we know , some languages can be forceful and domineering on other languages over time, like slavic.

The next part I want to know is what did the epirotes speak, the chaones, Mollossians etc etc, there are 14 tribes, was the messapic people in southern Italy who welcomed pyrrhus a epirote language and not an illyrian one. If so, then this eliminates the link with albanian.

There needs to be clarity in ancient albanians neighbours to find out who or where these albanians are

BTW, the tocco family where from southern Italy and was granted a claim from crusader days due to their historical links with the lombards
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocco_family

There is also this to contend with
Since it was difficult to defeat Bato ( dardanian) militarily, Philip V ( macedonian) drew up a plan to set the large Germanic/
Celtic of the Bastarnae against him. He proposed to them that he would open a way to the Dardanian State so that the Bastarnae could settle there for a while and later continue on their way through Illyria, finally reaching Italy. Philip's purpose was to wipe out the Dardanians and settle the Bastarnae in their lands, and send the Bastarnae to Itlay to lay it waste, leaving their women and children in Dardania. It was up to Monunius, the brother of Bato to confront the Bastarnae, as he succeeded Bato in 176 BC[8].

We have to contend with this bastanae people who originally germanic, deveolped due to its area in the carpathian mountains some dacian linguistic traits.
I always said that tribal languages are always Maternal while nationalistic languages are Paternal
 
1)


b) Alvanopolis of Ptolemy according the rest city names are given fits exactly with Dacian Germidava, Greek Thermidava. so if you follow Ptolemy then surely your insist drops cause you know that Germidava was Dacian colony,


A much stronger connection would be Dardania-Diocese of Dacia.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocese_of_Dacia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Balkans_6th_century.svg



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dava_(Dacian)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Teritoriul_onomastic_al_elementului_dava_-_Sorin_Olteanu.jpg
 

maybe albanians where more into the roman province of macedonia

anway, interesting book below .........it says the original home of the illyrias was only north of the neretva river which flows through bosnia and croatia

http://books.google.com.au/books?id...&ved=0CFcQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=epirotes&f=false
 
Its odd how some peoples posts that you/we reply to disappear!

Anyway, the INX link is also based on modern ( mussolini era) linguistic link which serve no purpose in my want of knowledge for this albanian people/language.

I presented logical questions trying to establish what these neighbours of ancient albanian spoke and why there is no link with them. FBS mad a nice comment but it was removed?
Clearly the link , states that Dalmatian language up to 16th century was illyrian based and was not linked to albanian.
Messapic , once said was also illyrian yet has nothing to do with albanian language, so what I am trying to say , is if these ancient neigbours of albanian where illyrian, then why is there no link with these languages.
If messapic , north picene old dalmatian are all different yet all called from the illyrian family , then ..........
If dardanian is a thracian,macedonian,illyrian mix then where is evidence of this language and it cannot be linked with the dardanian of the troad in anatolia because then that states the illyrian where also in anatolia.

Clearly, what i gathered is that every "illyrian" language was different and albanian was a language fabricated by it surrounding neighbours languages over time and had a chance to develop due due to its isolation in the mountains.

As we know , some languages can be forceful and domineering on other languages over time, like slavic.

The next part I want to know is what did the epirotes speak, the chaones, Mollossians etc etc, there are 14 tribes, was the messapic people in southern Italy who welcomed pyrrhus a epirote language and not an illyrian one. If so, then this eliminates the link with albanian.

There needs to be clarity in ancient albanians neighbours to find out who or where these albanians are

BTW, the tocco family where from southern Italy and was granted a claim from crusader days due to their historical links with the lombards
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocco_family

There is also this to contend with
Since it was difficult to defeat Bato ( dardanian) militarily, Philip V ( macedonian) drew up a plan to set the large Germanic/
Celtic of the Bastarnae against him. He proposed to them that he would open a way to the Dardanian State so that the Bastarnae could settle there for a while and later continue on their way through Illyria, finally reaching Italy. Philip's purpose was to wipe out the Dardanians and settle the Bastarnae in their lands, and send the Bastarnae to Itlay to lay it waste, leaving their women and children in Dardania. It was up to Monunius, the brother of Bato to confront the Bastarnae, as he succeeded Bato in 176 BC[8].

We have to contend with this bastanae people who originally germanic, deveolped due to its area in the carpathian mountains some dacian linguistic traits.
I always said that tribal languages are always Maternal while nationalistic languages are Paternal


there are a lot of maybe,
and a lot of guess,
Bastarnae could be, as anyone above the Cizarec's Line
but as Albanian is mostly after Anju and as Arbanon much before state of Arber,
so the known time of exist is about 1000 AD,
as language it is developed much North of today area,

there is also another Story that say that they are Visigoths from Byzantine Murcia that moved to Sicily and from there to ALbania after the Maniakis revolt.
Theories are theories,

the major point is that in known Historical chronicles it start to appear at about 1000 AD but it contains many Local non Northen Linguistic,
if you search History same times we have the foundation of Arbanon, the revolt of Maniakis etc,

after that we have establishment of Arber and then Albania,
the problem is that we have no evidence of big migration of population, that means that population existed already in the area
the only genetic differences is that both Arberesh and Arbanites have very lower quantities of E-V13 and big of I2b,
it can be a logical difference until a clear total apart difference,

the names you mention in another post show Normand or Gothic Germanic and Slavic as also the toponymes, a connection which fits exactly with Taranis thoughts from North of Line origin,

on the other hand the only before 1000 Ad exist of word Albania is Alvanopolis of Ptolemy, since no other evidence is to be serious except a ring which can be a Byzantine bless.

now lets see where in Balkans exist the name,
the first Historical known are the Dacian tribe of Albocense, mentioned by Maximus of Moesia,
we know that Dacians had 2 colonies in Illyria, and one is Germidava, probably build by Albocense and took name after them as Alvanopolis,
the possibilities that Alvanopolis create a 'nation' inside roman and byzantine empire are just a few, who did it?
but the possibilities to create an army under the bless of Byzantines is Big,

theories are theories so lets see some

my personal point is that Maniakis took Army from the North wild mountain parts of Romania or even North,
Went to Italy and after the troubles with Con/polis he return and Build Arvanon.
with Strong possibility that Germidava's primary language as also the later Huniades time migration

another theory gives that they came from Murcia to Sicily to Albania also as army,

another theory that I heard in a discussion yesterday,(first time I heard it and it can be just nonsess) about the early known names gives a para-Slavic tribe that did not came in touch with Cyrillic


Anyway the truth is that contains a vocabulary that fits with all known local area languages of past,
but its basic Form is new from North
(Slavo-Germanic family developement)

so we probably speak about a language that prevailed all others but also assimilate all the before of,
and we do not have a huge nation devastation since Gennetic fits with the area major Hgs



PS I don't deny the Bastarnae case you say , simply I do not know about it and need to search,
but me personal believe is that we probably have an underground connection from Moesia to Albania since Germidava's establishment
 
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First of all don't trust Albanian names, cause they change through istory and by Hodza, Hodza order that no religious name must be given

I have to say Hoxha couldn't have influenced Albanian clan names cause he came to power in 1944 ..the name do change it's true but most phares or fis know their original name, when it split or where they come from. The Fis of Kin identity is still very strong among Albanians (be them Albanians or Arvanites). For instance one of the pillars of the Kanun of Lek Dukagjin - whose origin is much earlier than the 15 cent when the canon is thought to have first been collected as it was a verbal law- is kin loyalty.
The Kanun is based on four pillars:

2) a) is Alvanopolis like Alviona (England) and not albanopolis
b) Alvanopolis of Ptolemy according the rest city names are given fits exactly with Dacian Germidava, Greek Thermidava. so if you follow Ptolemy then surely your insist drops cause you know that Germidava was Dacian colony,

3) the names of the tribes you mentioned are Thracian like Bryges-Phrygians or Illyrian, and some exist in Greece next to Pelasgian Argos (Atallante)


4) the thing that we must understand is that Albanian language has its own Grim's laws, meaning that is a language, but when we search the Arbanites and Albanians as toponyms and language we find big imports,
the answer is that Albanian was not a local language, but imported when Germidava was established, and then grew,
the history gives Dyrrachion to be a non Albanian city at about 1000-1500 (can't remember writer but I will find, that is why i did not answer, and the other reason is that I am looking for Arbanites surnames and toponyms)
cause Albanians are mentioned to be 1/4 of population.
so what happened,
the answer is at Maniakis army which after the revolt against Con/polis create a unification movement, that by time become a nation, (that happens always, when a nation is created, and we do not make nations according HG)
the later history of Epirus Despotate, something that you must read to understand,
then read about Huniades Ουνιαδης and Anju origin, and you will understand why from 1/4 of population become primary,

the connection of Albanian with Elder Nation tribes is another thing,
Just consider that Arbanites Castle-Prison-Ακροπολις is Μπουρτζι Burgi and is not connected with Greek Πυργος
but with Germanic Burg ( a Normands or Goths word?)
the existance from Pelasgian to Illyrian to Messapian to Thracian is because the unification movement was happened when today Albania was multinational.

a good example to you is word Bucuresti Bukur + nest or εστια, and Alba Lullia (Huniades-Anju Homelands)

so Taranis is correct about Cizarec's line, simply the pass of the line had happened by 2 colonies that Dacians create under the line and one is the one you mention Alvanopolis or Germidava,

Search for ArBanites toponyms and vocabulary and History, and then you will understand,

words like Κουγκι Kunki the word that Arbanites used for monastery- holy place - cemetery is similar to Dacian Kongaionion (Konka+aionion)
words like Zaratoba (toponym) meaning old town-village (compare Zara with Stara)
let me finish the reading and I will you more,

connection of Albanians with Epirotes (except chammerians) with Albanian does not exist,
Chammerians are a unique case

btw I am reading Bintliff works if you are interested

http://albter.com/?page_id=233
 
What I have read is that Bastarnae did not settle in Dardania or Illyria cause they were beaten in battle by King Monunius. Also, Messapic shares some words with Albanian language
 
What I have read is that Bastarnae did not settle in Dardania or Illyria cause they were beaten in battle by King Monunius. Also, Messapic shares some words with Albanian language

Well "Mess" in Messapian (meaning "middle" from PIE *medhyo) is exactly the same ("Mes") and has the same meaning even in modern Albanian.

I don't know if the word "ujë" for water in Albanian is a loan word or from PIE *ap?
 
I am not sure Endri, it's true "mes" means exactly "middle" but Alb. uje “water” seems to be from PIE: wod-(or/en-)-water

The shared Messapic lexical units with Albanian I know are:


Messapian Iuppiter Menzanas (divinity):

Illyrian mandos – small horse
PIE mendi̯os
Alb. mëz, mâz "pony",
Thrac. Mezēnai "divine horseman"

Anthroponyms

Dasius -Latin form of a Messapic name from southern Italy, Dazos in southern Italy
Dasius-Illyrian anthroponym
Dash - Alb (ram)

Bilia-Messapic - (Alb bijë “daughter”)
bagola, bagula (cf. Alb bajgë “dung”)
musso “ass” (cf. Alb mushk “mule”).

The change of o to a is attested only in Gothic, Albanian and Lithuanian. The Greek Aphrodite appears in the form Aprodita (Alb: Aferdita – literally near-day)

Messapian placename
Bréntion (from Messapian bréndon, bréntion) (Brindisi, Italy)
Alb: bri, brî (pl. brirë, brinë) "horn; antler" [< late Proto-Albanian *brina < earlier *brena]
 
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