The Albanian language

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I am not sure Endri, it's true "mes" means exactly "middle" but Alb. uje “water” seems to be from PIE: wod-(or/en-)-water

Julius Pokorny derives their ethnonym Messapii from Messapia, interpreted as "(the place) Amid waters", Mess- from Proto-Indo-European *medhyo-, "middle", and -apia from Proto-Indo-European *ap-, "water" (cf. another toponym, Salapia, "salt water").

I read it here
 
Yes but there is not just one PIE root for the word “water” and the PIE root for Alb “uje” seems to be “wed/wod”-wet, at least as per this table:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:List_of_Proto-Indo-European_roots

PIE root: *wed – wet
*wód-r̥- "water": Eng. wæter/water, OCS вода (voda), Russ. вода (voda), Gk. ὕδωρ (hydōr), Lat. unda, Lith. vanduo, Ltv.ūdens, Skr. उदन् (udán) , Alb. ujë, Ir. uisce/uisge, Hitt. (wātar), Arm. գետ (get), Toch. wär/war, Umb. utur,Goth.(watō), Welsh gwer, ON vatn, Kashmiri odūr, Thrac. udrēnas, Gm. wazzar/Wasser, Phryg. bedu, Pol.woda, OPruss. Wundan

Then there is *hep:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/h₂ep-

and *akʷwhich cognates with the (Mess)Ap (ia)

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:proto-Indo-European/akʷā-


Early proto-Albanian for “uje” is “udnja” correct me If I am wrong.
 


Yes but in Greek alphabet

http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Σούλι_Θεσπρωτίας

Μούργκα (1.340 m), Ζαβρούχο (1.137 m), Τούρλια (1.082 m)
το Κούγκι και η Κιάφα

toponymes κουγκι -Kounki was the monastery near the cemetary of Zaloggo
Zaloggo by it shelf means Black rivendale
Alb Za = Black
Greek Λογγος (Λογχη -spear split narrow) = rivendale
also in Messologgi Μεσολογγι the Arbanites named the church Kunki

William Martin Leake
Jacob Bartoldy
Γουδας etc


other toponymes in area

Σαμονιβα Samo niva (new Samo)
Αβαρινο Avarino
Παλιοκατουντα old Katoynta Old village or old street (Gr Palios= old)
Κονταντες (7nth village?)
Κιαφα kiafa ???
Τσεκουρι Tsekouri hammer Slavic Sokyra Sekira
Γκιοναλα Gionala ??? (either something with St-John, or with owl-bird γκιωνης)
 
now lets see where in Balkans exist the name,
the first Historical known are the Dacian tribe of Albocense, mentioned by Maximus of Moesia,
we know that Dacians had 2 colonies in Illyria, and one is Germidava, probably build by Albocense and took name after them as Alvanopolis,
the possibilities that Alvanopolis create a 'nation' inside roman and byzantine empire are just a few, who did it?
but the possibilities to create an army under the bless of Byzantines is Big,

theories are theories so lets see some

my personal point is that Maniakis took Army from the North wild mountain parts of Romania or even North,
Went to Italy and after the troubles with Con/polis he return and Build Arvanon.
with Strong possibility that Germidava's primary language as also the later Huniades time migration

another theory gives that they came from Murcia to Sicily to Albania also as army,

another theory that I heard in a discussion yesterday,(first time I heard it and it can be just nonsess) about the early known names gives a para-Slavic tribe that did not came in touch with Cyrillic


Anyway the truth is that contains a vocabulary that fits with all known local area languages of past,
but its basic Form is new from North
(Slavo-Germanic family developement)

so we probably speak about a language that prevailed all others but also assimilate all the before of,
and we do not have a huge nation devastation since Gennetic fits with the area major Hgs



PS I don't deny the Bastarnae case you say , simply I do not know about it and need to search,
but me personal believe is that we probably have an underground connection from Moesia to Albania since Germidava's establishment

Albocense ....interesting tribe. A dacian tribe living in the mountains between the Parthini in modern NW albania and the pederatae ( if I spell it correctly) in northern Thessally. Actually where moved slightly northward in roman times to reside is the roman province of lesser Moesia
 
To whom(ever) is administrating this thread:

I would like to know who has removed my post(s) and of the others from this thread and why? Is there some kind of censorship in this forum? As far as I remember I have not insulted or attacked anyone, so it would be decent to let me/us know the reason why.

Thank you
 
Yetos, please check your Albanian before posting since you are giving incorrect translations for "ZA".

In Albanian "Black" is "Zi" which also means "Mourning" (for the dead).

"Za" in Gheg Albanian is "voice"; in Tosk is "Zë".

Lug in Albanian means a lot of things. "Lugë/Luga" iz "spoon"; "Lug/Lugu" can mean "Draw" in geographical terms or "Hollow", "Glen", "Dale", etc; or "Concavity" (i/e Lug(ë)t), "Lugina" is usually "Valley".

Hope this helps.
 
To whom(ever) is administrating this thread:

I would like to know who has removed my post(s) and of the others from this thread and why? Is there some kind of censorship in this forum? As far as I remember I have not insulted or attacked anyone, so it would be decent to let me/us know the reason why.

Thank you

They're not deleted, and you have not done any offense, but I have moved certain off-topic discussions into this thread.
 
Yetos, please check your Albanian before posting since you are giving incorrect translations for "ZA".

In Albanian "Black" is "Zi" which also means "Mourning" (for the dead).

"Za" in Gheg Albanian is "voice"; in Tosk is "Zë".

Lug in Albanian means a lot of things. "Lugë/Luga" iz "spoon"; "Lug/Lugu" can mean "Draw" in geographical terms or "Hollow", "Glen", "Dale", etc; or "Concavity" (i/e Lug(ë)t), "Lugina" is usually "Valley".

Hope this helps.


the translation is not given by me,
and the word Zaloggo means black rivendale

maybe in Albanian would be Zilugina but the toponyme for centuries now is Zaloggo
 
Yetos, you've reminded me of some words that I completely forgot that they existed in the use of Albanians of Kosova, maybe it is used in Albania too.

Zallogë/Zalloga actualy is a word/name that is used for something old (old black shoes mostly) but generally would define useless or worthless things that are just piled, old and ugly, gloomy, something that is all in tatters. For a person "Zallogë" would be used for someone who shows "unrefined" behavior/status or for a useless person.

Another one that I would like to share (I do not know if it is useful or not) is the word "Llugë" that means messy, tied up, non-resolvable. You will not find these words in the standard Albanian nor in Tosk dialect (please someone correct me if you have the info regarding Tosk).
 
Παλιοκατουντα old Katoynta Old village or old street (Gr Palios= old)
- maybe "katun" - Alb.=small village, hamlet hence the offensive "katundar"-villager

Κιαφα kiafa ???
- "qafa"-Alb.=neck, but we also use to describe terrain like qafa e malit (neck of the mountain)

in case you haven't seen it, here is Leake's dictionary with the words in Greek with English translation:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Dj...&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
 
Yetos, you've reminded me of some words that I completely forgot that they existed in the use of Albanians of Kosova, maybe it is used in Albania too.

Zallogë/Zalloga actualy is a word/name that is used for something old (old black shoes mostly) but generally would define useless or worthless things that are just piled, old and ugly, gloomy, something that is all in tatters. For a person "Zallogë" would be used for someone who shows "unrefined" behavior/status or for a useless person.

Another one that I would like to share (I do not know if it is useful or not) is the word "Llugë" that means messy, tied up, non-resolvable. You will not find these words in the standard Albanian nor in Tosk dialect (please someone correct me if you have the info regarding Tosk).

"Zallogë" would be used for someone who shows "unrefined" behavior/status or for a useless person.

hahaha watch for Σελος and Σεληνιασμος (Lunatic) Seleniasmos

interesting although a possible connection with moon Σεληνη and the punishment disease she could grand (madness, mental illness, mania etc)
 
for me the discussion is after an end,

All I wanted to say is just don't believe each 'food' is given in school books, and by some 'maestro' of stupidity,

Kessi thanks for the link about Leake, Although it is poor and easy written, I admit it is more scientific and a better handle than the one of some others like Zeus10 videos or Ar Kolla or whoever

in early 1900 there was a guy in Greek Akademia who 'proved' whatever and claim whatever
today people laugh with him
same happens in all Balkanic countries,

So .... for you just realize what has been told in this thread, and see beyond of what TV and Media and school books want you to see,
they just want to create control of Thought via emotions,
when I was 10 I thought as Goverments want me to think, now that I am above 45 I know better, and can judge better,

Hal Fao make your own dreams, and don't dream the dream of others,

Hope you guys be fine scientists, and expel the bad spell of modern 'scientific' stupidity of our times.


PS
.... Viking mt DNA can come
From Normandy
From Sicily
from Ucraine and Varragian Guards
from Crusaders
or even from a 'royal' marriage - alliance
 
- maybe "katun" - Alb.=small village, hamlet hence the offensive "katundar"-villager

- "qafa"-Alb.=neck, but we also use to describe terrain like qafa e malit (neck of the mountain)

in case you haven't seen it, here is Leake's dictionary with the words in Greek with English translation:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Dj...&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

ok again

Παλιοκατουντα from
Greek Παλιος (Palios = Old) + κατουντα katoynta -katunta Arban/ka narrow street, small village (Turkish mahala Greek οικισμος)

κιαφα kiafa spelled as it is written, if you want it in Latin alphabet, if who want to use ALb writing system then is qiafa
but in sound has no difference with kiafa of latin alphabet,
 
Albocense ....interesting tribe. A dacian tribe living in the mountains between the Parthini in modern NW albania and the pederatae ( if I spell it correctly) in northern Thessally. Actually where moved slightly northward in roman times to reside is the roman province of lesser Moesia

Finally you get the point, the place of Albocense fits with today Alba Lullia in Romania, and the land of Huniades and Anju
 
i apologize for all the nationalistic albanian approaches to studying the language, but sometimes we just cant help it >.<.

anyhow my comment is in 2 parts

1) on the illyrian origin: there is undeniably a link between albanian and illyrian, however to what degree is always up for debate. I honestly think albanian originally was a descendant of illyrian, middle/northern albania being the territorial nucleus of illyria, but it has heavily been latinized, germanicized, slavicized, turkified, greekified, anyhow u get my point... so nowadays that link is very weak.

2) i would like to know why many albanian loan words have the opposite meaning of their original intended one. ill give a few examples

for example:
the word - moter meaning "sister" instead of mother
- kau meaning "ox/bull" instead of the female cow
 
sorry didnt finish my last post. also "verdhe" means yellow, instead of green as in italian "verde". I guess this a broader linguistic question. is this normal for other languages as well?
 
1) Italian "verde" means "green" not "grass"...as far as I know "grass" in Italian is "erba'

2) Idk if it is of your interest, even though not different meaning, is the word "Kopil" presumably from Dacian and in Albanian means "bastard child" while in Romanian (written copil) means simply "small child"...

And since I'm here, there's smth thats been bugging me. I tried searching in the internet but found nothing (I admit I didn't do a thorough research cause I have got no time to spare).

It's been bugging me the formation of the numbers 20-29(both Gheg and Tosk) and 40-49(only in Tosk). Basically all numbers from 10-99 in Albanian, except obviously 20 and 40 have a pretty clear etymology and are formed the same way as these numbers in english.

Exp:

English: Thirty-Three Tens, Fifty-Five Tens ect
Albanian: Tridhjetë (30)- Tre Dhjeta, Pesëdhjetë (50)-Pesë Dhjeta

Now twenty in Albanian is "Njëzet", literally meaning One Zet (?) and Forty is "Dyzet", literally meaning Two Zet (?).

This "Zet", presumably meaning 20, anyone has any idea what language it is? Is it a native word? A PIE word or a loan word (most likely)? First look i'd say is a Greek origin loan word but I don't know Greek so...
 
"Verdh" in Kosovo actually means "green", same as in Italian, but off course this we are correcting now due to the application of standard Albanian.

Regarding Zet, I did not find any explanation for this neither, I only know that "zece" is ten in Romanian.
 
"Verdh" in Kosovo actually means "green", same as in Italian, but off course this we are correcting now due to the application of standard Albanian.

Regarding Zet, I did not find any explanation for this neither, I only know that "zece" is ten in Romanian.


zet referred to albanians who migrated from Zeta highlands of montenegro to albania ........they where known as zeti in italian or zets if you want english

Zeta was its own duchy and IIRC got overun by serbians or bosnians - 15th century
 
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