Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum

View Poll Results: Hypothetical R1b migration

Voters
18. You may not vote on this poll
  • It's from Eu, later migrated into the Fertile Crescent through the Pont-Casp steppe

    3 16.67%
  • From Eu, later moved to the Nile Del. and the F. Crescent through the eastern part of the Med coast.

    1 5.56%
  • It's from the Pontic-Caspian steppe and later migrated into the Fertile Crescent and Europe

    3 16.67%
  • It's from Anatolia / West Asia and later migrated into Europe through the Pontic-Caspian steppe

    7 38.89%
  • It's from Anatolia / West Asia and later migrated into Europe through the Fertile Crescent

    4 22.22%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 33

Thread: What do folks from the Ibr. Peninsula and the Brit. Isles think about haplogroup R1b?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    Goga's Avatar
    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    1,429
    Points
    5,834
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,834, Level: 22
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 216
    Overall activity: 20.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Ethnic group
    Kurd
    Country: Netherlands



    What do folks from the Ibr. Peninsula and the Brit. Isles think about haplogroup R1b?



    Option 1: It's from the Iberian Peninsula or the Isles and after the ice age R1b migrated into other parts of Europe and later even into the Mesopotamia through the Pontic-Caspian steppe.

    Option 2: It's from the Iberian Peninsula or the Isles and after the ice age R1b migrated into other parts of Europe and later even into the Nile Delta and the Fertile Crescent (the Mesopotamia + Levant) through the eastern part of the Mediterranean coast. And then moved up to the Pontic-Caspian steppe from West Asia.

    Option 3: It's from the Pontic-Caspian steppe and later migrated into the Fertile Crescent and Europe.

    Option 4: It's from Anatolia / West Asia and later migrated into Europe through the Pontic-Caspian steppe.

    Option 5: It's from Anatolia / West Asia and later migrated into Europe through the Fertile Crescent and the Eastern part of the Mediterranean coast.


    Since the majority of this haplogroup is around the Iberian Peninsula & and the British Isles and when we talk about R1b we mostly talk about the origin of these folks. I'm interested very much in what they think about themselves!


    Also,

    Is it possible that Phoenicians were actually R1b folks and didn't belong to J2 haplogroup?

    Is it possible that the ancient Sumerians were R1b folks from the Pontic-Caspian steppe?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    Goga's Avatar
    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    1,429
    Points
    5,834
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,834, Level: 22
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 216
    Overall activity: 20.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Ethnic group
    Kurd
    Country: Netherlands



    I voted for option 1, but I'm originally from Kurdistan and not from Europe.

  3. #3
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registeredTagger Second Class10000 Experience PointsOverdrive

    Join Date
    07-11-12
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,945
    Points
    12,759
    Level
    34
    Points: 12,759, Level: 34
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 591
    Overall activity: 39.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a* (inferred)

    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Option 1: It's from the Iberian Peninsula or the Isles and after the ice age R1b migrated into other parts of Europe and even into the Mesopotamia through the Pontic-Caspian steppe.

    Option 2: It's from the Iberian Peninsula or the Isles and after the ice age R1b migrated into other parts of Europe and even into the Nile Delta and the Fertile Crescent (the Mesopotamia + Levant) through the Eastern part of the Mediterranean coast. And later moved up to the Pontic-Caspian steppe from West Asia.
    With the intention to not sound blunt, nobody seriously believes (since circa 2008) that R1b is native to Western Europe.

    Option 3: It’s from the Pontic-Caspian steppe and later migrated into the Fertile Crescent and Europe.

    Option 4: It's from Anatolia / West Asia and later migrated into Europe through the Pontic-Caspian steppe.

    Option 5: It's from Anatolia / West Asia and later migrated into Europe through the Fertile Crescent.

    Since the majority of this haplogroup is in that area and when we talk about R1b we mostly talk about the origin of these folks. I'm interested very much in what they think about themselves and not what other people say.

    Is it possible that Phoenicians were actually R1b folks and didn’t belong to J2 haplogroup?

    Is it possible that the ancient Sumerians were R1b folks from the Pontic-Caspian steppe?
    You are making a lot of blunt assumptions here, especially that somehow one ethnic group = one Haplogroup, which is something that just doesn't exist.

    You seem otherwise completely unaware of the structure of R1b subclades and their distribution. For that purpose, I shall link you to Maciamo's tree of R1b, which will give you an overview:


  4. #4
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    Goga's Avatar
    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    1,429
    Points
    5,834
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,834, Level: 22
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 216
    Overall activity: 20.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Ethnic group
    Kurd
    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    With the intention to not sound blunt, nobody seriously believes (since circa 2008) that R1b is native to Western Europe.
    I know, but it is still possible! I know that in Europe the ancient R1b subclade is not found yet.

    And I'm familiar with your opinion and that of Maciamo. I want to know what other folks believe!

    You are making a lot of blunt assumptions here, especially that somehow one ethnic group = one Haplogroup, which is something that just doesn't exist.
    True, point taken!

    You seem otherwise completely unaware of the structure of R1b subclades and their distribution. For that purpose, I shall link you to Maciamo's tree of R1b, which will give you an overview:
    I'm aware of that phylogenetic tree! I don't dispute it, but how do I know that this tree is without mistakes?

    Btw, It says that P25 (R1b1*) is from the Black Sea. But precisely where from? From the northern parts of the Caucasus near the Pontic-Caspian steppe and Russia/Ukraine, Southern Caucasus abetween Geroga - Anatolia or from the European part (Rumania) of the Black Sea?

  5. #5
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    Goga's Avatar
    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    1,429
    Points
    5,834
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,834, Level: 22
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 216
    Overall activity: 20.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Ethnic group
    Kurd
    Country: Netherlands



    Look what I've found. But how true is this, hmmmmmm????


    "Most Britons descended from male farmers who left Iraq and Syria 10,000 years ago (and were seduced by the local hunter-gatherer women)

    ... Most Britons are direct descendants of farmers who left modern day Iraq and Syria 10,000 years ago, a new study has shown.After studying the DNA of more than 2,000 men, researchers say they have compelling evidence that four out of five white Europeans can trace their roots to the Near East...
    "

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...years-ago.html

  6. #6
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registeredTagger Second Class10000 Experience PointsOverdrive

    Join Date
    07-11-12
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,945
    Points
    12,759
    Level
    34
    Points: 12,759, Level: 34
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 591
    Overall activity: 39.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a* (inferred)

    Country: Germany



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Look what I've found. But how true is this, hmmmmmm????
    The Daily Mail is not exactly a reliable source on genetics, now is it? Also, I might remember you about the paper regarding ancient (Neolithic) DNA from Treilles in southern France, which showed an absence of R1b in an area where today ~70% of the population are R1b.

    I really have to wonder why you keep bringing this up, anyways. With a complete absence of R1b from ALL Neolithic sites in Germany, France and Iberia, it is extremely unlikely that R1b arrived in Western Europe before the Copper Age.

  7. #7
    Baron Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    rms2's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-05-09
    Location
    Central Virginia
    Posts
    304

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L21 (S145, M529)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a2

    Ethnic group
    British/Irish
    Country: United States



    I voted Option 4: It's from Anatolia / West Asia and later migrated into Europe through the Pontic-Caspian steppe.

    That seems a good guess, although Option 5 is also reasonable.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    Goga's Avatar
    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    1,429
    Points
    5,834
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,834, Level: 22
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 216
    Overall activity: 20.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Ethnic group
    Kurd
    Country: Netherlands



    Thanks for the answers guys.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    18-09-11
    Posts
    155
    Points
    1,674
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,674, Level: 11
    Level completed: 42%, Points required for next Level: 176
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Canada



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Concerning R1B. What do you fellows think of Jean Manco's theory? I don't know all the details, but part of it seems to suggest that R1b folk brought lactose tolerance to Europe from Anatolia, and that their pathway was via the Dardanelles and then northward following the Black Sea coast (that's an option not mentioned by Goga), where they joined the Trypilians, and then participated in the westward movement of the IE's, acquiring the language in the process. Some of their groups, settled in Central Europe blossomed forth extremely successfully in the 3rd millenium BCE, "giving birth" to, among others, P-312 and U-106.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registeredOverdrive5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Posts
    1,321
    Points
    6,080
    Level
    23
    Points: 6,080, Level: 23
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 470
    Overall activity: 63.0%


    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by razor View Post
    Concerning R1B. What do you fellows think of Jean Manco's theory? I don't know all the details, but part of it seems to suggest that R1b folk brought lactose tolerance to Europe from Anatolia, and that their pathway was via the Dardanelles and then northward following the Black Sea coast (that's an option not mentioned by Goga), where they joined the Trypilians, and then participated in the westward movement of the IE's, acquiring the language in the process. Some of their groups, settled in Central Europe blossomed forth extremely successfully in the 3rd millenium BCE, "giving birth" to, among others, P-312 and U-106.

    The story of Driopes say that Druids came from minor Asia to Greece and from there moved west and North,
    just seek where we Find the Druids 1500 years later, among Celtic speaking tribes,

  11. #11
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    18-09-11
    Posts
    155
    Points
    1,674
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,674, Level: 11
    Level completed: 42%, Points required for next Level: 176
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Canada



    Why should the story of Driopes be more accurate than the stories of Snorri Sturluson? What makes it escape the label of interesting old fairy tale?

  12. #12
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    3,352
    Points
    19,084
    Level
    42
    Points: 19,084, Level: 42
    Level completed: 15%, Points required for next Level: 766
    Overall activity: 99.5%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by razor View Post
    Concerning R1B. What do you fellows think of Jean Manco's theory? I don't know all the details, but part of it seems to suggest that R1b folk brought lactose tolerance to Europe from Anatolia, and that their pathway was via the Dardanelles and then northward following the Black Sea coast (that's an option not mentioned by Goga), where they joined the Trypilians, and then participated in the westward movement of the IE's, acquiring the language in the process. Some of their groups, settled in Central Europe blossomed forth extremely successfully in the 3rd millenium BCE, "giving birth" to, among others, P-312 and U-106.
    Epicenter of lactose tolerance in Europe better muches Corded Wear culture, therefore R1a people.

    It also might be a similar case as with blondism. Being based in autosomal DNA it doesn't fallow Y HG anymore, and lactose tolerance stays mostly with best herding areas than with HG. Light skin stays in areas where is most advantages, and lactose tolerance stays in areas where it is more advantages for population. Somehow these two areas match.

    Interesting is that, when you look at the lactose map, you will see that coastal areas are more lactose intolerant than the rest. Probably extra calories from sea food was always making up for it, and drinking milk wasn't as beneficial there as in deeper continent.



    Another worth attention fact is that R1a people were milk drinkers but not beef eaters. This is common from Poland to India. All the beef they ate were the young bulls. Cows were always left to give milk for dairy products till they died.

    R1b is more correlated with beef eaters. I'm not sure about wester Europe, but in America (mainly based on western europe culture) beef is the king of meats), stakes, burgers, sausages, etc all beef.

    R1a in eastern europe is more pork oriented, poultry, eggs, rye and lots of dairy, cabbage. This is as true today, as was 3,000 years ago. Some of it wasn't brought in by R1a but assimilated from locals, probably I people.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    18-09-11
    Posts
    155
    Points
    1,674
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,674, Level: 11
    Level completed: 42%, Points required for next Level: 176
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Canada



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Epicenter of lactose tolerance in Europe better muches Corded Wear culture, therefore R1a people.
    I think the Jean Manco theory (but you can check it out at her website) suggests that Corded Ware was a mixed haplogroup culture, with R1a initially dominant, but R1b present as a sort of junior partner and then "taking off". She associates lactose tolerance with incoming R1b's due to their milking economy. LT then spread out more. You can debate her on Dna-forums if you like.P.S. In other words, R1a got LT from R1b, and R1b got the IE speech from R1a.
    Last edited by razor; 30-12-11 at 19:21. Reason: addition

  14. #14
    Great Adventurer Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger Second Class10000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteran
    Awards:
    Arm of Law
    sparkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-02-11
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,781
    Points
    15,544
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,544, Level: 37
    Level completed: 87%, Points required for next Level: 106
    Overall activity: 15.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c PF3881+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by razor View Post
    Concerning R1B. What do you fellows think of Jean Manco's theory? I don't know all the details, but part of it seems to suggest that R1b folk brought lactose tolerance to Europe from Anatolia, and that their pathway was via the Dardanelles and then northward following the Black Sea coast (that's an option not mentioned by Goga), where they joined the Trypilians, and then participated in the westward movement of the IE's, acquiring the language in the process. Some of their groups, settled in Central Europe blossomed forth extremely successfully in the 3rd millenium BCE, "giving birth" to, among others, P-312 and U-106.
    I think this is an intriguing possibility that I'm not ready to discount. R1b-L11 seems to me to obviously be a post-Neolithic expansion on Central and Western Europe, postdating the initial Corded Ware expansion. It's not impossible to imagine some of the Corded Ware spillover that expanded being an small R1b minority that got lucky. The trick, I think, will be to get a better understanding of pre-L11 R1b subclades. Not so much R1b-ht35, as that's actually not the closest, but rather ones like R1b L11- L51+. A difficulty is that modern L11- L51+ doesn't have an obvious match with Corded Ware, with samples in Italy, Croatia, Turkey, Yemen... samples from Poland I suppose could be evidence... but there's nothing in Ukraine or Russia discovered so far. I think that leaves things ambiguous.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    Goga's Avatar
    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    1,429
    Points
    5,834
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,834, Level: 22
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 216
    Overall activity: 20.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Ethnic group
    Kurd
    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by razor View Post
    Concerning R1B. What do you fellows think of Jean Manco's theory? I don't know all the details, but part of it seems to suggest that R1b folk brought lactose tolerance to Europe from Anatolia, and that their pathway was via the Dardanelles and then northward following the Black Sea coast (that's an option not mentioned by Goga), where they joined the Trypilians, and then participated in the westward movement of the IE's, acquiring the language in the process. Some of their groups, settled in Central Europe blossomed forth extremely successfully in the 3rd millenium BCE, "giving birth" to, among others, P-312 and U-106.
    Thanks, very interesting view of point if you believe that R1b is from (West) Anatolia! This would explain some non-West European R1b in Greece.

  16. #16
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registeredTagger Second Class10000 Experience PointsOverdrive

    Join Date
    07-11-12
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,945
    Points
    12,759
    Level
    34
    Points: 12,759, Level: 34
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 591
    Overall activity: 39.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a* (inferred)

    Country: Germany



    I have moved the discussion about the Kurdish language into a separate thread in linguistics.

    It can be found here.

  17. #17
    Baron Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    rms2's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-05-09
    Location
    Central Virginia
    Posts
    304

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L21 (S145, M529)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a2

    Ethnic group
    British/Irish
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Epicenter of lactose tolerance in Europe better muches Corded Wear culture, therefore R1a people . . .
    It seems to me lactase persistence in its European incarnation as the T-13910 allele is much more frequent in R1b-dominated regions of Europe than it is in R1a-dominated regions.

    A recent study of the Basques found the sample population about 93% lactase persistent.

    Besides that, interestingly, the Fulani of Africa, who have a high frequency of R1b-V88, also carry the European version of lactase persistence at a fairly high frequency: http://www.malariajournal.com/content/10/1/9.

    No R1a there, as far as I know.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Created Album pictures1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Eochaidh's Avatar
    Join Date
    28-01-10
    Posts
    68
    Points
    3,355
    Level
    16
    Points: 3,355, Level: 16
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 95
    Overall activity: 5.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-M222

    Ethnic group
    Irish
    Country: USA - Pennsylvania



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    It seems to me lactase persistence in its European incarnation as the T-13910 allele is much more frequent in R1b-dominated regions of Europe than it is in R1a-dominated regions.
    I find that graphics are a big help to me in following these discussions. Here is the best one that I have regarding lactase persistence. It looks to me that it is most prevalent in the R1b regions too. It's small, but if you click it you can see it better.

    lactose.jpg

  19. #19
    Junior Member Achievements:
    3 months registered250 Experience Points

    Join Date
    24-12-11
    Posts
    6


    Country: Russian Federation



    It is known that many people have 5-7 years after the body stops producing the enzyme lactase that breaks down lactose in the small intestine. However, after about 6-9 thousand years ago, there was tolerance to lactose gene, which gave the carriers of this gene advantages in the struggle for survival and allowed to spread widely.

    I believe that the emergence of lactose tolerance gene was associated with the domestication of horses, and start eating fermented mare's milk.

    The composition of mare's milk is significantly different from the composition of milk cows and other animals. It contains a 2-fold less protein, fat and minerals, almost 1.5 times more lactose than cow's. The quantity and composition of proteins and lactose content of mare's milk (6.4%) is close to the female (6,6-7,0%).

    Recent discoveries on Botai culture suggest that Botai culture settlements in the Akmola Province of Kazakhstan are the location of the earliest domestication of the horse.

    According to others first domesticated the horse in modern Bashkortostan representatives Agidelevskaya culture.

    I believe that the first domesticated horses 7-9 thousand years ago, representatives of haplogroup R1b, who lived in the Southern Urals and adjacent plains. Domestication of the horse led to the emergence of lactose tolerance gene. As well as possible carriers of R1b spread around the world, to conquer Europe.




  20. #20
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registeredTagger Second Class10000 Experience PointsOverdrive

    Join Date
    07-11-12
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,945
    Points
    12,759
    Level
    34
    Points: 12,759, Level: 34
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 591
    Overall activity: 39.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a* (inferred)

    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Eochaidh View Post
    I find that graphics are a big help to me in following these discussions. Here is the best one that I have regarding lactase persistence. It looks to me that it is most prevalent in the R1b regions too. It's small, but if you click it you can see it better.

    lactose.jpg
    I would like to point out that there is another interpretation to this, specifically that you have a massive founder effect in both Western Europe and Scandinavia. To pick two examples: central and southern Italy both have fairly high levels of R1b yet very low levels of lactase persistence, and conversely much of Scandinavia has relatively lower levels of R1b but a much higher level of lactase persistence.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    Goga's Avatar
    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    1,429
    Points
    5,834
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,834, Level: 22
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 216
    Overall activity: 20.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Ethnic group
    Kurd
    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Bahadir View Post
    Recent discoveries on Botai culture suggest that Botai culture settlements in the Akmola Province of Kazakhstan are the location of the earliest domestication of the horse.

    According to others first domesticated the horse in modern Bashkortostan representatives Agidelevskaya culture.

    I believe that the first domesticated horses 7-9 thousand years ago, representatives of haplogroup R1b, who lived in the Southern Urals and adjacent plains. Domestication of the horse led to the emergence of lactose tolerance gene. As well as possible carriers of R1b spread around the world, to conquer Europe.
    "Horses Domesticated 9,000 Years Ago in Saudi Arabia

    Previous estimates had dated horse domestication back only 5,000 years.
    "



    http://news.discovery.com/animals/ho...ia-110825.html

  22. #22
    Junior Member Achievements:
    3 months registered250 Experience Points

    Join Date
    24-12-11
    Posts
    6


    Country: Russian Federation



    In Saudi Arabia have been found only horse figurines. This is unconvincing evidence of taming horses. After all, no one comes to mind is to talk about taming a mammoth on the basis of figurinesof mammoths. In Botai had found traces of kumis on the dishes, bridle and other more compelling evidence.

  23. #23
    Pigmon/Pygmon/Pimond Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Pi gman's Avatar
    Join Date
    16-11-10
    Posts
    66
    Points
    2,911
    Level
    15
    Points: 2,911, Level: 15
    Level completed: 54%, Points required for next Level: 139
    Overall activity: 12.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b L-2 Z49 & Z142 +

    Ethnic group
    French/Greek
    Country: USA - Kentucky



    In my opinion it is entirely possible that some of the Phoenicians were in fact R1b1a. They were a mixed group, however, because Phoenicians were a conglomerate of city states and had people of different religions. Because of their trading relationships with Greece Phoenicians became Greek around 2100 years ago. One example of this is where the Nobles of Phokia and Smyrna relocated with members of these cities to start the city of Marseilles and other trading ports and over time they became French. There is an excellent y-DNA study of this but I cannot post the link. Google:
    The coming of the Greeks to Provence and Corsica

    and it should take you there.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    zanipolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-11
    Location
    Eastern Australia
    Posts
    1,977
    Points
    9,037
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,037, Level: 28
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 313
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1 - L446
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H26a1

    Ethnic group
    Venet
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Pi gman View Post
    In my opinion it is entirely possible that some of the Phoenicians were in fact R1b1a. They were a mixed group, however, because Phoenicians were a conglomerate of city states and had people of different religions. Because of their trading relationships with Greece Phoenicians became Greek around 2100 years ago. One example of this is where the Nobles of Phokia and Smyrna relocated with members of these cities to start the city of Marseilles and other trading ports and over time they became French. There is an excellent y-DNA study of this but I cannot post the link. Google:
    The coming of the Greeks to Provence and Corsica

    and it should take you there.
    this is good

    http://www.cell.com/AJHG/fulltext/S0...2808%2900547-8

  25. #25
    Pigmon/Pygmon/Pimond Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Pi gman's Avatar
    Join Date
    16-11-10
    Posts
    66
    Points
    2,911
    Level
    15
    Points: 2,911, Level: 15
    Level completed: 54%, Points required for next Level: 139
    Overall activity: 12.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b L-2 Z49 & Z142 +

    Ethnic group
    French/Greek
    Country: USA - Kentucky



    Apologies to everyone, I meant to post my previous message as a reply to this post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Option 1: It's from the Iberian Peninsula or the Isles and after the ice age R1b migrated into other parts of Europe and later even into the Mesopotamia through the Pontic-Caspian steppe.

    Option 2: It's from the Iberian Peninsula or the Isles and after the ice age R1b migrated into other parts of Europe and later even into the Nile Delta and the Fertile Crescent (the Mesopotamia + Levant) through the eastern part of the Mediterranean coast. And then moved up to the Pontic-Caspian steppe from West Asia.

    Option 3: It's from the Pontic-Caspian steppe and later migrated into the Fertile Crescent and Europe.

    Option 4: It's from Anatolia / West Asia and later migrated into Europe through the Pontic-Caspian steppe.

    Option 5: It's from Anatolia / West Asia and later migrated into Europe through the Fertile Crescent and the Eastern part of the Mediterranean coast.


    Since the majority of this haplogroup is around the Iberian Peninsula & and the British Isles and when we talk about R1b we mostly talk about the origin of these folks. I'm interested very much in what they think about themselves!


    Also,

    Is it possible that Phoenicians were actually R1b folks and didn't belong to J2 haplogroup?

    Is it possible that the ancient Sumerians were R1b folks from the Pontic-Caspian steppe?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 176
    Last Post: 17-02-13, 21:15
  2. L21 on the Iberian Peninsula
    By rms2 in forum R1b
    Replies: 121
    Last Post: 17-03-12, 12:22
  3. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-11-11, 09:04

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •