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Thread: Understanding Haplogroup L subclade L2A

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    Understanding Haplogroup L subclade L2A



    received DNA geneology kit for Christmas. Done tracing my Parternal line. Based on the information it is telling me that I belong to the Haplogroup L sublcade line L2a. According to research it says that Haplogroup L traces to India. I don't understand how this is possible since my fathers grandfather came from Radekow Germany.

    Any one have advise or suggestions. ?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c1 PF3892+ (Swiss)
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    U4a (Cornish)

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    A couple more L2a's (which I believe is now called L1b1) posted here. It's generally thought of as being a "merchant from the East" haplogroup in the context of Europe, and I believe it reaches a peak in South Tyrol. I haven't seen a good diversity analysis of it, though, so these suppositions could be wrong.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
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    HV2a1 +G13708A

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    Haplogroup L originated in South-Central Asia or West Asia. Somewhere between Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and Uzbekistan/Tajikistan and Iran.

    Haplogroup L1b is the most frequent type found in West Asia, South and Central Europe.

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    How could someone who is of german descent have a haplogroup which is found in India. Have you seen any data which suggest's there are german's with Haplogroup L subclade L2a.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JosephK View Post
    How could someone who is of german descent have a haplogroup which is found in India. Have you seen any data which suggest's there are german's with Haplogroup L subclade L2a.
    L1a, L1c, and L1b other than L1b1 are the main L subclades in India IIRC, not L1b1 (the new name for L2a, as I've mentioned). I'm not that familiar with how L1b1 got to Europe... it could have been during the Classical Age or earlier... but regardless, it appears to be most prominent among those on the southern periphery of Western Germanic language speakers, as well as some Romance speakers and others. The L Project has some Germans, but more Swiss and Italians. You may want to join that project if you tested with FTDNA.

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    L2a for a person of German speaking background is perfectly probable. L2a does not appear in the Indian subcontinent - it almost exclusively appears in the German speakers of South Tyrol. Chances are your ancestors originated from the Tyrol and migrated northwards (Which part of Germany are you from?). I also took a YDNA test (my father is of Turkish origin) but amazingly my Haplogroup was the same as yours. Turns out I desend from South Tyrolese Anabaptists who were enslaved by the turks who eventually ended up in Cyprus!

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Not known - O3?
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    L could also be from Elam.

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    Ancient origins of L2A are from the Ladin people of South Tyrol (See Ladin Language in Wikipedia) from the 12th Century many of them had Germanized. L1's are of Persian/Indian origin.

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    L2 is believed to be the bronze age Raetic tribes who neighboured the Venetic tribes - both the indigenous peoples of the region

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1 - L446
    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by styrol View Post
    L2 is believed to be the bronze age Raetic tribes who neighboured the Venetic tribes - both the indigenous peoples of the region
    agree

    he can try to find a full article on this

    http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.081.0629

    and also check these areas .......
    Publications:

    • South Tyrolean Isolated Populations Y-DNA (UEP), mtDNA, and 8 Alu Polymorphisms, Pichler, Mueller, Stefanov et al. 2006 (277 samples)
      Y-DNA Puster Valley (n=35) P* (xR1a) 47%, BR* (xDE, JR) 34%, E* (xE3a) 9%, R1a* 6%, L 3%, Y* (xBR, A3b2) 3%
      Y-DNA Eisack Valley (n=34) P* (xR1a) 46%, BR* (xDE, JR) 29%, R1a* 15%, E* (xE3a) 3%, K* (xL, N3, O2b, P) 3%, E3a 3%
      Y-DNA Badiot Valley (n=24) P* (xR1a) 58%, BR* (xDE, JR) 21%, R1a* 13%, L 8%
      Y-DNA Lower Vinschgau (n=32) P* (xR1a) 47%, BR* (xDE, JR), R1a1 13%, E* (xE3a) 3%, K* (xL, N3, O2b, P) 3%
      Y-DNA Upper Vinschgau (n=32) P* (xR1a) 56%, BR* (xDE, JR) 31%, E* (xE3a) 9%, R1a1 3%
      Y-DNA Stilfs (n=37) P* (xR1a) 35%, BR* (xDE, JR) 32%, E* (xE3a) 14%, K* (xL, N3, O2b, P) 14%, R1a1 3%, E3a 3%
      Y-DNA South Tyrol (n=194) P* (xR1a) 47%, BR* (xDE, JR) 31%, E* (xE3a) 7%, R1a* 5%, K* (xL, N3, O2b, P) 4%, R1a1 3%, L 2%, E3a 1%, Y* (xBR, A3b2) 1%
    • South Tyrol three microisolates (MICROS) Genetic study, Pattaro et al. 2007 (1175 participants)
    • South Tyrol Isolates Value for Genetic Dissection of Complex Diseases, Marroni, Pichler et al. 2006 (403 males)


    South Tyrol isolates mtDNA Y-DNA - Ladin communities, Thomas et al. 2007 (263 men, 56 LVB, 46 LVG, 52 GVL, 50 GVU, 59 ITA)
    LV (Ladin, n=102, LVB Badiot n=56, LVG Gherdëin n=46): ~R1b 65%, ~G+I 13%, J 12% (LVB 5%, LVG 20%), L 6% (LVB 9%, LVG 2%), ~E 3%, R1a 2% (LVB 0%, LVG 4%)
    GV (Vinschgau German, n=102, GVL Latsch n=52, GVU Laas/Prad n=50): ~R1b 42%, ~G+I 25%, J 14%, R1a 9% (GVL 12%, GVU 6%), ~E 8% (GVL 6%, GVU 10%), L 2%
    ITA (Ital.speakers BZ, n=59): ~R1b 37%, ~G+I 25%, J 15%, ~E 12%, ~K*(S?) 5%, R1a 3%, L 2%

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by JosephK View Post
    received DNA geneology kit for Christmas. Done tracing my Parternal line. Based on the information it is telling me that I belong to the Haplogroup L sublcade line L2a. According to research it says that Haplogroup L traces to India. I don't understand how this is possible since my fathers grandfather came from Radekow Germany.

    Any one have advise or suggestions. ?
    if your are with Ftdna, contact Chris from the Alpine project...he is very helpful and knowledgeable...I am part of this

    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...Gen_Genealogy/

    Only If you feel you could have ancestors from the alps

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    Yes I am with FTDNA and a member of that group! I am FTDNA kit no. 2700 and Chris know me well - what is your kit no? My ancestors were Ladin Hutterites who fled South Tyrol for Moravia and then were enslaved by the turks. they were eventually settled in Cyprus and then to the UK.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
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    Quote Originally Posted by styrol View Post
    Yes I am with FTDNA and a member of that group! I am FTDNA kit no. 2700 and Chris know me well - what is your kit no? My ancestors were Ladin Hutterites who fled South Tyrol for Moravia and then were enslaved by the turks. they were eventually settled in Cyprus and then to the UK.
    I am the one classified as venetic

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    I am the one classified as venetic
    As you all noticed in FTDNA L project there ise a huge pontic cluster of L in FTDNA. Mosf of those people are members of Lazs, Hemshin and Pontic Greek comunity who lives around mountainous areas. Probably around ~40-50% of Hemshin people and ~%35 of Laz people and ~%30 of pontic greeks (Romeika speakers in mountainous areas) are L1b. ( I know it because i keep the statistics myself, i cant show you any published reference as far as there isn't any published research. Cinnioglu says %12 of north eastern turkey ise hg L. But it seems the sample size is not focused on ancient ethnic groups. Thats why big cities in the region reduced the ration of Hg L) I dont know when and how did they come to the region but in autosomal results there is high percentage of baloch effect in caucasia. It seems there have been interaction between caucasia and gedrosa since paleotic and neolotic times. L might came to middle east and especialy in south east black sea because of that interraction . Elam theory may be true for abundance of Hg L in ME as far as the location of Elam is a link point of Gedrosa and Caucasus. Assyrians and Druzis has also hg L.

    There are low quantity of SNP discovered on L1b. It seems more SNP required to be investigated by more Big Y test. If Big Y is useless to discover new SNP's it means they had bottleneck effect or they were late migrants to black sea shores. Actualy i dont agree with late migrant theory because Baloch effect on autosomal results have positive correlation with Caucasian component. If L1b migration has brought Baloch to Caucasia with late migration it has to be negative correlation, as how near east and Eastern European companenet has with Caucasian companents. Especialy lazs are very ancient people of the Caucasus. Thus in my opinion L1b in Caucasia might be at least 8-10 thousand years old in Caucasus. We know that ancient Greek colonist made slave trades and that may carried hablogroup L1b to europe. Or it was a natural migration from Anatolia to Europe with hablogroup G which is also frequently found in Anatolia and Caucasia. ( i think there ise a correlation between Hg G and Hg L. Kalash people has also Hg G) Assyrians has also L1b and the Druzis.

    In my conclusion Hg L project admins should find out the age of Hg L in middle east and Europe to understand the how did they migrated from Gedrosa to Europe.

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