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Thread: Athens on fire

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    Athens on fire



    Well long time no post,


    I don't know if you missed me or you just become unhappy,


    1 photo all the words





    Athens 15 Feb 2012




    the voice is by a great actor Thanasis Beggos





    For those who do not understand,
    if someone manage to rule the untamed Greeks, then he will be able to rule the world,

    Greece is under a dictatorship of technocrats and corrupted politicals,
    quided by EU Bankers

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Yetos no offense but the ones who put Greece in this state were Greeks themselves (i know you're gonna say the government did this but the government was voted by the Greeks) so now quit bitching about restriction and things like that and work your ass to get to the point you were without cheating this time. All this riots and revolts are doing nothing but destroying even more what is left of the Greek economy and putting more pressure on the government.

    PS: This is not referred to you in person. I'm speaking in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endri View Post
    Yetos no offense but the ones who put Greece in this state were Greeks themselves (i know you're gonna say the government did this but the government was voted by the Greeks) so now quit bitching about restriction and things like that and work your ass to get to the point you were without cheating this time. All this riots and revolts are doing nothing but destroying even more what is left of the Greek economy and putting more pressure on the government.

    PS: This is not referred to you in person. I'm speaking in general.


    Sorry Endri but it seems you never read my posts,

    and the worst is that you live in Neighbor country,

    Greece is ruled by a non elected technocrat of ECB (ex vice president)
    they do not make elections neither referendums the last 2 years,
    101 of 300 parliament members are erased from parties or quit their occupation last years
    Greece is living under the terror of EU dictatorship of Bankers
    At saturday both the 2 big parties leaders threat all parliament members

    PS I will take your post as a post of someone who is not well informed, rather than someone who has anti-Greek feelings
    Pappademos is not elected Endri


    PS2 For your information Greece had 2 solutions,
    1 is to destroy private banking system and save the people and the people insurance.
    2 was to destroy the social policy , the insurance organizations etc in order to save private banks,

    the dictator Pappademos decide to save Banks

    No Offence
    Endri but 2/3 of Albanians in Greece will be with out Health insurance and will never take a retirement (1 000 000 Albanians will be dying outside Greek hospitals with the new memorantum) cause they will not have enough money to pay.

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    Yetos, do you know whom do the greeks consider mostly responsible for the mess? I also would like to know to wich extent they blame Karamanlis or Papandreou.

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Sorry Endri but it seems you never read my posts,

    and the worst is that you live in Neighbor country,

    Greece is ruled by a non elected technocrat of ECB (ex vice president)
    they do not make elections neither referendums the last 2 years,
    101 of 300 parliament members are erased from parties or quit their occupation last years
    Greece is living under the terror of EU dictatorship of Bankers
    At saturday both the 2 big parties leaders threat all parliament members

    PS I will take your post as a post of someone who is not well informed, rather than someone who has anti-Greek feelings
    Pappademos is not elected Endri


    PS2 For your information Greece had 2 solutions,
    1 is to destroy private banking system and save the people and the people insurance.
    2 was to destroy the social policy , the insurance organizations etc in order to save private banks,

    the dictator Pappademos decide to save Banks

    No Offence
    Endri but 2/3 of Albanians in Greece will be with out Health insurance and will never take a retirement (1 000 000 Albanians will be dying outside Greek hospitals with the new memorantum) cause they will not have enough money to pay.
    By Government i do not mean the current one, the technical one, i mean Karamalis Gov. who put you on this crisis and then left it on Papandreu hands. What i mean is that it was your fault to elect Karamalis and approve his economical policies even though they brought you to ruins, living way above your economy actual capability.

    This is capitalism were living in, the banks gave you money during Karamalis (and probably before, idk) and now it is right they want their money back, in the end is their money your (the Greek government) used. If you (the normal people) did not benefit from that money you should ask for explanations to Karamalis Gov and others before him who used the money they got from banks for their own benefits, not the banks.

    PS: About 2/3 of albanians being out of the health care system, what can you do? This is capitalism, survival of the fittest. If they cannot afford it, well i guess they were not cut for the world we live in today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endri View Post
    By Government i do not mean the current one, the technical one, i mean Karamalis Gov. who put you on this crisis and then left it on Papandreu hands. What i mean is that it was your fault to elect Karamalis and approve his economical policies even though they brought you to ruins, living way above your economy actual capability.

    This is capitalism were living in, the banks gave you money during Karamalis (and probably before, idk) and now it is right they want their money back, in the end is their money your (the Greek government) used. If you (the normal people) did not benefit from that money you should ask for explanations to Karamalis Gov and others before him who used the money they got from banks for their own benefits, not the banks.

    PS: About 2/3 of albanians being out of the health care system, what can you do? This is capitalism, survival of the fittest. If they cannot afford it, well i guess they were not cut for the world we live in today.

    look endri

    it is not that simple,

    the story is older,
    starts from 1800

    the balance and the best year in greece 1973-1978 while drops drammatically after 83
    consider that Greece enter EU at 78, and every year is minus, if you realize that then start all.

    today prime minister is not foreign to greece,
    it is just like you have prime minister the one who create the pyramid banks at 1997
    (although you have same president)

    Papademos is the charlatan who cooked the numbers so Greece enter Eurozone,
    Papademos and Benizelos are also resposible for the stock exchange scandal


    TRY TO UNDERSTAND IT,
    PAPPANDREOU IS NOT INNOCENT,
    HE IS MINISTER FROM 1985,
    HE TOOK MANY LOANS, HE ATE A LOT OF MONEY, HE CREATE THE POST BANK SCANDAL,
    BENIZELOS ALSO
    KARAMANLIS ALSO
    THE ONES WHO TAKE TODAY THE DECISIONS
    ARE THE ONES WHO PUT GREECE IN TO CRISIS, ESPECIALY PAPADEMOS WHO WAS BANK PRECIDENT

    THEY WERE ELECTED CAUSE THEY PROMISE MONEY AND JOBS,
    THEY DON'T HAvE PEOPLE'S SUPPORT ANY MORE,

    now about capitalism and communism
    I will not say a word about these, that was in 50's

    there is no capitalism if the most succeded is communistic China,
    There is no communism if Banks exist in China,
    simply a trillaterals dictatorship,

    simply Europe has passed to Bankers dictaorship,
    and the most untamed still fight,

    and again you are not well informed
    Karamanlis gave money to Banks in order to stabilize them against Leehman's Brothers

    the same did Pappandreoy the same Benizelos etc,

    I don't believe that you see so near, and not far,

    They took money from private Bankers, not fro central bank
    and now they took money from Insurance cash, from people to pay privateers,
    they took money from my father's insurance to stabilize Banking system, not to pay the depth

    understand that, it is not Greece the problem, but the banks is the problem,
    Banks create bubble money, which is money from the rich,
    and they take money from the poor, the workers, the elders, to save the ass their asses, cause if a bank collapsethose who have BIG money will lose,
    not the mmajority who has a few,

    DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?

    THEY ARE SAVING THE ASS of 3% of GREEKS (BIG DEPOSITS) BY KILLING THE 90% (small or no deposits, stamp payers)


    if you still believe in communism and capitalism then you might live in 1950's
    how come there is member in communist party in china with 7 trillions $

    simply the modern political view is Banking dictatorship and technocrats? or people's choice


    PS if you believe that was only karamanlis fault then hear a video,
    and the case is more,
    Pappandreou took loans from 1985, and he signed many
    while karamanlis did nothing to avoid the crisis,
    and semitis the worst ever took hidden loan from Goldman sachs to be paid at 2006,
    there is more complex than the you one you describe,



    Pappandreou as an As...le reject no interest loans from china and russia that could solve problem,
    he also rejected the Chinese zone in Greece, and the energy pipe lines,
    he is the same quilty as karamanlis . simitis mitsotakis, elder pappandreou,

    yesterday outside Semitis house,




    200 police special forces save him,
    WHY?
    cause his daughter is married with banker relative to Goldman sachs
    cause he brought Papademos from Goldaman sachs to cook numbers to enter Eurozone
    cause he took hidden loans from Goldman sachs at 2000 that become known at 2006-2008,
    he took loans that were known after 6 years and to be paid after 8!!!!!

    Goldman sachs, = Mario Dragi and pappademos

    JP - Morgan = the doctor's Daughter (you know who) the richest woman in Balkans
    who keeps her country poor, but she has $$$$$$$$, to buy elections in her country,

    Next time, plz don't make so easy desicions,
    as you see capitalism and communism theory is dead,
    neither it was karamanlis who brought Greece to crisis

    Search for Pappakonstantinou and his connection with Goldman Sachs
    it is not that easy

    PS 1 example is Pappageorgiou, and Tsoxatzopoulos,
    Pappageorgiou worked for Bank, he took 4 billion E (steal, or misshundle) from his own bank
    Pappandreou make him parliament member so he gain asylum against judges,
    after 2 elections (8 years) the case is closed,
    as You see politicians Bankers technocrats are the same,

    BUT THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM IN DEMOCRACY

    THE PROBLEM IS WHEN A NON ELECTED IS RULLING,
    AND WHEN SOME B...ds VOTE LAWS WITH OUT THE PEOPLE'S OPINION


    GREECE IS AFTER A EU JUNDA OF TECHNOCRATS AND BANKERS
    AND THEY DO NOT PERMIT ELECTIONS OR REFERENDUMS
    until their laws pass,
    But people are not accepting the laws of non elected,
    and fight against them,
    that is civil war if you do not understand, a revolution
    Besides already 2 party members do not recognise the memorantum,
    which might be after the new election a bigger problem for EU,
    since Greece might have goverment that is not recognising the memorantum and the EU,


    Besides EU bankers Junda is not only in Greece but in Italy also (Monti chief of trillaterals)


    PS 2
    Greeks are not that stupid, to bite again the same thing,
    it was Pappandreou Benizelos, Semitis, Karamanlis Abramopoulos etc the ones who sign to take the loans
    it was papademos the one who cooked numbers to enter EUrozone,

    how sure as a Greek I am, that the ones who put me and my children in Depth,
    are the ones who will save me, simply if they were stupid that time, they are the same stupid now,
    If they worked for the Bankers that time, The same masters they have now


    once a liar, 2 a liar, 3rd time the Kantafi fate awaits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElHorsto View Post
    Yetos, do you know whom do the greeks consider mostly responsible for the mess? I also would like to know to wich extent they blame Karamanlis or Papandreou.

    Thanks

    well it depends on who they vote
    if they vote traditionally pappandreou they blaim mostly karamanlis, and the opposite,

    but no matter who they vote, Greeks are angry for 35 years and thousands of scandals and thieves nobody went to prison,
    instead they make law that helps them to have asylum against Justice,

    the majority thinks that Karamanlis is a runaway, a scared one, not that much a thieve, but surrounded by them, and took no action against them, a coward, a useless,
    He become prime minister with the promise of purify the state by the thieves,
    but he did nothing, and when thieves found among his party, he did not punish them.

    and pappandreou as a lunatic, who thinks that he is the messiah who will save Greece from the loans he took,
    remember pappandreou is the one who change generals in order to claim to Mercel and Sarkozy at Nice that he stop an army movement against him,
    a bicycle rider who believe that still lives in sweden of 70's

    personaly for me the most responsible to blame is Semitis who wanted to stay in History as the one who made Olympic games,
    Stock exchange, and enter Greece to Eurozone with facultated numbers.

    the one who brought Goldman sachs to Greece

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    That is the face of the modern Greek dictators,
    they spray even protesters who run back,

    in modern Greece, nobody has the right to protest,

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    PEOPLE SHOULD NOT AFRAID OF THEIR GOVERMENTS

    ITS GOVERMENTS WHO SHOULD BE AFRAID OF THEIR PEOPLE
    Last edited by Yetos; 14-02-12 at 11:03.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Endri, you just put the finger on something that might be the best way to explain the whole crisis. Capitalism is the survival of the fittest. However, it seems the left in Europe prefers to ignore this universal law and give money to the unemployed, the work-shy, the disabled, single mothers and subsidise asylum seekers and a whole spectrum of unproductive people. At society level, that thing you cleverly mentioned is called social Darwinism. Over the last 40 years, a lot of jobs in Europe have been robotised or went to countries where the workforce is cheaper and more flexible. The current situation is that there are more people than ever for an ever-shrinking pool of available jobs, who also tend to become more and more specialised, hence restricting their access to a highly qualified workforce. To grossly simplify, there are more people fighting for less jobs. The Darwin laws taught us that only the fittest (more qualified or more educated) or the specimen that better adapts to its environment (people who accept lower wages, ready to move to find a job, learn new skills or further their education) will survive. The European left has been swimming against the tide since the 70es and told workers they would be the champions of workers rights. Reality has hit them, and it's only the beginning. This debt crisis coupled to the Eurozone crisis could hammer back Europe back to the Middle Ages economically, or having us beg China to intervene and humiliate Europe like never before in its history. The left has deluded workers into thinking they could have great wages, great retirement schemes, endless and generous social welfare with little work and no sacrifices. Now the Greek middle class meet at soup queues, and I predict the same in France if Hollande wins the election. The bankers and the ruthless economic system played a massive role in getting Europe into the situation we are now driven to see spiralling down, but the left las also played a very foolish role into the demise of the system in refusing to play the game by the rules. Remember social Darwinism, it is a concept that is becoming increasingly actual...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimmerianbloke View Post
    Remember social Darwinism, it is a concept that is becoming increasingly actual...
    Culture and economics are different thinigs. Greece is going through and will continue to go through a bad period for the next 2-3 years. They need to develop industry again, reliance on service sector and tourism did not work. Liberalization of the economy is a must.

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    It looks like the stars are lining up for Greece's financial separation from EU.
    European Central Bank is about to print One Trillion dollars, on top of 500 billion it already printed to recapitalize banks, finally. This money is partially needed to help banks offset losses of Greek's debt defaults, or debt forgiveness.
    Austerity measures are meant to eliminate deficit and ease debt payments but they have not much to do with reviving and rebuilding of economy and GDP. The later are more important for peace and good living in a country than the former.

    At the moment I see a big probability of Dictatorship in Greece to quite things down and introduce order (at least someone will try), than the chance for economic reforms to bring economic prosperity. Too much opposition to reforms, too little time, too much debt, lack of understanding how economy works by ordinary Greeks (faulty educational system), lack of entrepreneurship, strong traditions of entitlement etc.

    These days, I can hear more and more voices from economists of letting Greece go. This sentiment is mirrored by more politicians and they are getting use to this idea quickly. They are also realizing that it is in best interest for both parties, EU and Greece.

    I think that things are ripe on many fronts for Greece's separation. We just need an announcement from Greece's Prime Minister. EU will pay all Greece's debt, and Central Bank has the money already. And it only takes 4 months to print all the drachmas again. Greeks will get their drachmas, no debt, and free hand to try again on their own.

    I'm only hoping that when time comes, government will be ready with economic revival plan, and the excellent chance for Greece to come around and build strong economy wont be wasted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post





    LOL, Europe is so funny. I hope we never become like the US. God bless Greece.

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    You're right Franco, US never had dictatorship and democracy works there better and longer than in most European countries.
    I can see a new dictator running Greece very soon, and many will consider it god's blessing.
    Unfortunately next 2 to 5 years will be for Greece even worse than it is today. Greece is still falling into abyss, so keep burning your streets and cities, keep borrowing money, ignore economic and political reforms, keeps spitting on capitalism, and elect presidents who can promise more for borrowed money.

    Yes, a dictator is coming soon. I wonder what are the generals talking about right now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    You're right Franco, US never had dictatorship and democracy works there better and longer than in most European countries.
    I can see a new dictator running Greece very soon, and many will consider it god's blessing.
    Unfortunately next 2 to 5 years will be for Greece even worse than it is today. Greece is still falling into abyss, so keep burning your streets and cities, keep borrowing money, ignore economic and political reforms, keeps spitting on capitalism, and elect presidents who can promise more for borrowed money.

    Yes, a dictator is coming soon. I wonder what are the generals talking about right now?
    Spitting on capitalism? What a sarcasm, you should blame those who were well versed on modern capitalism like Goldman Sachs who did help the Greek Government to cheat the EU and join the Euro, not the Greek people. The Germans are not innocent either, they just cared about bigger market, more exportation, more profit, more, more... until the invention has exploded. Bon appetit. As for the dictatorship, don't worry, it's better to live under a dictatorship than under a fake democracy like Americas. At least people keep on dreaming about a true democracy and don't delude themselves thinking that something is a democracy when it is not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Spitting on capitalism? What a sarcasm, you should blame those who were well versed on modern capitalism like Goldman Sachs who did help the Greek Government to cheat the EU and join the Euro, not the Greek people.
    Please, don't mix economic system with politics on bureaucratic levels. Banker or government fudging books is known to happen in all economic systems.
    If we follow your way of thinking we can blame Christianity for this corruption too. After all, most of Greece's government officials are christians, right?

    The Germans are not innocent either, they just cared about bigger market, more exportation, more profit, more, more... until the invention has exploded.
    Americans, Germans, who else? Any other rich country on your list stealing from the poor too?
    Isn't it easier to steal from rich like Robin Hood did? I guess, Americans and Germans are stupid, because they don't profit from Singapore, South Korea, Japan, England, Norway, but instead they want to make a fortune on Greece and Spain.
    Off course I'm wrong with this assumption, because we all know "It is never us, it's them..."

    Tell, me Franco, what was stopping Greeks from benefiting from Germans instead? If Germans, US, Singapore, Koreans etc figured out how to profit from others, what was stopping Greeks and Spaniards from benefiting too, the honesty, lack of corruption, and straight moral spine? Or maybe they couldn't figure out the rules of the game?
    Damn Germans have stolen the manual!


    As for the dictatorship, don't worry, it's better to live under a dictatorship than under a fake democracy like Americas. At least people keep on dreaming about a true democracy and don't delude themselves thinking that something is a democracy when it is not.
    Ah, now we know why you call yourself Franco.

    Can you enlighten us what democracy is, and what country is the closest to it?
    Last edited by LeBrok; 23-02-12 at 05:35.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias2 View Post
    Culture and economics are different thinigs. Greece is going through and will continue to go through a bad period for the next 2-3 years. They need to develop industry again, reliance on service sector and tourism did not work. Liberalization of the economy is a must.
    What economy, and above all, what industry are you talking about? Greece is a corpse, that was only breathing because of the public sector jobs created to keep people employed. Tourism is the only industry worth something, because of its weather, cultural offer and beaches. Alas, a lot of hotel compounds and chains belong to foreign companies, but applying the Cuban system, there is money to be made...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimmerianbloke View Post
    What economy, and above all, what industry are you talking about? Greece is a corpse, that was only breathing because of the public sector jobs created to keep people employed. Tourism is the only industry worth something, because of its weather, cultural offer and beaches. Alas, a lot of hotel compounds and chains belong to foreign companies, but applying the Cuban system, there is money to be made...
    That's why I said they need to develop industry again, cause there is very little at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It looks like the stars are lining up for Greece's financial separation from EU.
    European Central Bank is about to print One Trillion dollars, on top of 500 billion it already printed to recapitalize banks, finally. This money is partially needed to help banks offset losses of Greek's debt defaults, or debt forgiveness.
    Austerity measures are meant to eliminate deficit and ease debt payments but they have not much to do with reviving and rebuilding of economy and GDP. The later are more important for peace and good living in a country than the former.

    At the moment I see a big probability of Dictatorship in Greece to quite things down and introduce order (at least someone will try), than the chance for economic reforms to bring economic prosperity. Too much opposition to reforms, too little time, too much debt, lack of understanding how economy works by ordinary Greeks (faulty educational system), lack of entrepreneurship, strong traditions of entitlement etc.

    These days, I can hear more and more voices from economists of letting Greece go. This sentiment is mirrored by more politicians and they are getting use to this idea quickly. They are also realizing that it is in best interest for both parties, EU and Greece.

    I think that things are ripe on many fronts for Greece's separation. We just need an announcement from Greece's Prime Minister. EU will pay all Greece's debt, and Central Bank has the money already. And it only takes 4 months to print all the drachmas again. Greeks will get their drachmas, no debt, and free hand to try again on their own.

    I'm only hoping that when time comes, government will be ready with economic revival plan, and the excellent chance for Greece to come around and build strong economy wont be wasted.
    I more realistic reason for printing that money is the ECB already said they will have to get rid of the interests rates they would have earned to help Greece out of this mess. This will by itself brings Greece debt per GDP down 3-5%

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    You're right Franco, US never had dictatorship and democracy works there better and longer than in most European countries.
    I can see a new dictator running Greece very soon, and many will consider it god's blessing.
    Unfortunately next 2 to 5 years will be for Greece even worse than it is today. Greece is still falling into abyss, so keep burning your streets and cities, keep borrowing money, ignore economic and political reforms, keeps spitting on capitalism, and elect presidents who can promise more for borrowed money.

    Yes, a dictator is coming soon. I wonder what are the generals talking about right now?
    spitting on Capitalism?

    were do you live and what era?

    Capitalism is dead, Communism is dead,
    today we have only Bankers dictatorships,

    Greece is used to dictators

    the only mistake of Greece is that Believed some foreign Agents who study in Harvard US
    All the Harvard finish minister brought Greece to that position,

    if Capitalism is to study in Harvard and destroy a Country
    then I do spit Capitalism

    Capitalism and Communism are the models of 50-60-70
    they are dead now


    The problem of Greece was Marshal plan who put Greece in to a turist and agriculture model
    and the new memorandum who do also the same.

    Greeks manage to get industry, which a Harvard agent send away,

    the problem of Greece is the parliamental dictatorship which makes the killers of the past, healers of today,

    Greece soon will find its own way,

    GREECE LIVES THE DICTATORSHIP OF GOLDMAN SACHS AGENT NAMED PAPADEMOS.


    Ps LEBROK? china is a communistic or Capitalistc country?
    when you answer that, then you find the truth.


    they are pushing civil war in greece or warm month,

    why cause Greece stop buying Guns.







    we are living Imperialism in Europe not Capitalism.

    Imperialism is when Greece with 2 times sun instead of produce solar panels, buys them from North countries,
    Imperialism is when Greece with oranges, buys orange juice from Germany,

    When Australia was free, Queen of England kept the wool production.
    so all australian wool was going to england and India textiles, and return to Australia as clothes,
    That is not Free economy neither Capitalism Neither Communism.
    That is Imperialism, or How to Dictate the market,


    What Greece Needs is a GOUDI, an area to execute all quilty and corrupted, and a new state law, a new constitution, which might prevail similar phainomena, introducing forms like ostracism

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goudi

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post

    Imperialism is when Greece with 2 times sun instead of produce solar panels, buys them from North countries,
    Imperialism is when Greece with oranges, buys orange juice from Germany,
    You are funny! So why didn't Greece produce it's own solar panels? Why didn't it manufacture it's oranges right where the oranges grew?
    Solar power is one of the energy sources of the future! And of course technological research has to be done to improve it's quality. Germany funded a lot of money into that research, as well as for businesses that produce this technology. But what did the Greek government fund it's money for instead?
    Tell you what, I'm really sick of these accusations of blaming others for innovation and it's benefits!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mzungu mchagga View Post
    You are funny! So why didn't Greece produce it's own solar panels? Why didn't it manufacture it's oranges right where the oranges grew?
    Probably because it has become cheaper to import juice and solar panels. I think thats a great example of the impossibility to devaluate own products due to the EURO.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    i bet this would have been the situation of southern italy, if italy was divided in two..
    Greece, has the misfortune, to not have an itself correspondent to what is northern italy for southern italy, who can support the poorer economically part...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimmerianbloke View Post
    Endri, you just put the finger on something that might be the best way to explain the whole crisis. Capitalism is the survival of the fittest. However, it seems the left in Europe prefers to ignore this universal law and give money to the unemployed, the work-shy, the disabled, single mothers and subsidise asylum seekers and a whole spectrum of unproductive people. At society level, that thing you cleverly mentioned is called social Darwinism. Over the last 40 years, a lot of jobs in Europe have been robotised or went to countries where the workforce is cheaper and more flexible. The current situation is that there are more people than ever for an ever-shrinking pool of available jobs, who also tend to become more and more specialised, hence restricting their access to a highly qualified workforce. To grossly simplify, there are more people fighting for less jobs. The Darwin laws taught us that only the fittest (more qualified or more educated) or the specimen that better adapts to its environment (people who accept lower wages, ready to move to find a job, learn new skills or further their education) will survive. The European left has been swimming against the tide since the 70es and told workers they would be the champions of workers rights. Reality has hit them, and it's only the beginning. This debt crisis coupled to the Eurozone crisis could hammer back Europe back to the Middle Ages economically, or having us beg China to intervene and humiliate Europe like never before in its history. The left has deluded workers into thinking they could have great wages, great retirement schemes, endless and generous social welfare with little work and no sacrifices. Now the Greek middle class meet at soup queues, and I predict the same in France if Hollande wins the election. The bankers and the ruthless economic system played a massive role in getting Europe into the situation we are now driven to see spiralling down, but the left las also played a very foolish role into the demise of the system in refusing to play the game by the rules. Remember social Darwinism, it is a concept that is becoming increasingly actual...
    I agree with you.. to have a powerful economy, the state should be light (state structure, bureocracy, and publicworkers)... that is also the problem for italy.. with those people who vote left, and for pdl traitors like fini... the only pure politician in italy was Berlusconi, who wanted liberalism, and an invisible state... but all the left and his internal prty traitors.. did all the posssible with magistrates to make fall the legitated voted by the majority government... now we have unwanted technocrats... who are almost not cutting public spending and public inefficent work, and above all they aren't doing nothing to higen our competitiveness

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by julia90 View Post
    i bet this would have been the situation of southern italy, if italy was divided in two..
    Greece, has the misfortune, to not have an itself correspondent to what is northern italy for southern italy, who can support the poorer economically part...
    Quite the contrary. Greece is about yet to become the south italy of europe. You know, the richer EURO countries are being asked right now to play the role of north italy and to "help" greece. That was not the case before. For me this is a direct result of the EURO. Maybe if Italy would have remained divided, south italy would have found a strategy to survive by its own, no matter on which level. Who knows. If italians feel like one nation, then they can keep solidarity between north and south, else not. The same question is crucial for the EURO-zone too.

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