Politics Euro Crisis, Greek depth, the retaliation of the Greeks

Unless you, or someone else, invent something better than capitalism, if it come to production and GDP, capitalism is here to stay.

Yetos, don't confuse capitalism with banking. Money and banks have to exist in all economic systems. Actually if it comes to Greece, almost half of economy is in government hands. 40% of the Greek labor and business market was supplied by government. The mess in your country is made by your government and politics. It has nothing to do with capitalism, but rather with lack of it.

What economic system do you propose for Greece?
 
Yetos said:
Iceland gave a good example by changing the constitution, not to the way that Bankers want, but to the way that people want,
Click to expand...

The case of Iceland is indeed remarkable. For instance the people can decide now about national property:
http://www.thjodaratkvaedi.is/2012/en/question_on_the_ballot/question_2.html
Iceland is lucky because it is a tiny country with very low corruption. The tiny size allows quick and transparent organization of big changes. The democratic tradition of a transparent 'allthing' is probably one reason too. But probably also the negotiation with Russia was a helpful Joker during other negotiations with IMF, EU etc., I don't know.
Ancient Greece once had a democratic system based on lottery. Nobody knew in advance who will be the next president, leader, or whatever. And every member of the circle had the same odds. The lottery mechanism can be kept technically transparent, not like humans. But I don't remember exactly when and were in Greece this was and how it was implemented.
 
It was during Pericles.
 
Le brok you are confusing Capitalism with Free World,

Capitalism is the Bankers Rulling,
No Banks no Capitalism,
 
it is written in Aristotle's 'Athenean constitution' Αθηναιων πολιτεια,

yes, for example for 1 public position there were 20 candidates, from them by vote 5 were chosen, and among 5 lottery so to find the 1,

THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS THAT IN ANCIENT DEMOCRACY POLITICIANS TOOK NO MONEY IN THE BEGINING AND AT THE END 3 SMALL COINS (an estimation of 3 month salary at a whole year of service) WHILE TODAY POLITICIANS TAKE THE BIGGER SALARIES AND MANY EXTRAS.
 
Yetos said:
Le brok you are confusing Capitalism with Free World,

Capitalism is the Bankers Rulling,
No Banks no Capitalism,
Click to expand...

What?! Banks existed before capitalism, it's a fact. According to your logic, banks existed during feudalism, therefore feudalism was a capitalism.

I can assure you, you can have capitalism based on barrel system, banks are not needed. Although it would be terribly difficult for businesses and people to operate without money, just on trade goods for goods, goods for property, or raise capital in goods. And yes, capitalism needs an open and free market too (if you meant this as "Free World"), otherwise prices are artificial and chaotic.

Again, what economic system you proposing instead of capitalism, or socialism? I guessing, it will be without banks and bankers. Show us the way out for Greece.
 
I am not proposing something,

I ASK SAME TREATMENT FOR PEOPLE AND BIG CORPORATIONS AND PRIVATE BANKS.

Send Bankers also to prison and don't help them, as it is with common people,

the Video runs in Greece and is titled Lessons from Vikings

CAPITALISM IS NOT FEUDALISM,
CAPITALISM CAN CO-EXIST WITH COMMUNISM (look at China)

the money that Greece took from IMF and ECB went 40-60% to save roten and corrupted BANKS

people pay double taxes and sometimes triple to save Banks

that is capitalism. Bankers dictatorship.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xucitb_yyyyyyyy-yyy-yyyy-yyyyyyyy_news?start=40

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xucitb"></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xucitb_yyyyyyyy-yyy-yyyy-yyyyyyyy_news" target="_blank">Μαθήματα από τους Βίκινγκς</a> <i> από <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/CDemo83" target="_blank">CDemo83</a></i>

Watch minute 23:00
ICELAND MADE A MIRACLE CAUSE DEMOCRACY WORK,
A REFERENDUM THAT PROVE THE BANKERS THAT THEY CAN NOT MESS WITH PEOPLES CHOICE.
 
The video is not mine, neither for Greece but for Portugal.

I hear that is cencored in some countries that is why I embed it

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xv93qi"></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xv93qi_ich-bin-ein-berliner_news" target="_blank">ICH BIN EIN BERLINER</a> <i> από <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/stefanelonikitelo" target="_blank">stefanelonikitelo</a></i>


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xv93qi_ich-bin-ein-berliner_news
 
I am returning,

The movement has name 'χωρις μεσαζοντες', means 'without middlemen'

I wrote about it many times.

it was created in the time of Crisis, about 3 years before, and all said that is doomed to fail,
yet seems to grow,
its purpose is to sell local biological and industry products, with out the extras that we find in market,
it is a kind of volunteer union-club where people taste and vote to choose products to buy in quantities,
and to give 10% of what earns to very poor families (immigrants included)
it also has and other activities, mainly social or cultural or even protesting.

It started in my town (I am proud for it) by selling Greek yellow potatto instead of imported that most super-market did, at half price dropping the selling price so much that big companies afraid of their future in Greece, since spread almost half of Greece
after 3 years of life manage even to sell even degergents and Christmas trees, and is about to close a toll post in a road which is legal under Greek laws but Illegal to be under EU laws.

these days my town is invaded by foreign journalists.
you can find out how Greeks react in some parts,
that movement manage to hold social net and structure in many areas and also against multi-national corporations that wanted the monopoly of markets, No need to mention names that close or left territory.


you can learn about in
Süddeutsche Zeitung,
Al Jazeera
Internationalist
Korean TV
and some others I can not remember.
 
as I said before in previous posts,
crisis created a movement that stroke hard the markets of food,
a movement that overpass supermarkets and merchants,

before 2 years no-one believed that this movement will last,
but seems that not only exist, but spread very fast,thretening the big companies of food distribution, and big super markets

after media all over the world visiting Greece and my homeplace to provite as news, today Science is observing the movement,
the first scientific work was power-pointed in Goldsmiths College in London
"Articulating Alternatives: Agents, Spaces and Communication in/of a Time of Crisis", Non-capitalist Markets, the Euro Crisis and Greece. Το κίνημα «Χωρίς Μεσάζοντες»
from March 1rst University of Thessaly started statistical research, like the income of buyers, the ability of producers, the quality of products etc,
After 2013 May a big search after European studies 'Erasmus' programs will be in progress,
already 200 students all over Europe in economical (market) agricultural and engineer studies (logistics) are prepaired to study the social structure of the movement,

http://www.anasta.de/TOPOS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1022&Itemid=174
 
It seems like the last essay of IMF drops light and focus in hiden things,

According the last essay about Greece, IMF admits many mistakes, blaims ECB, and believes that Greece was the 'sacrificed' for the shake of EU.

on the other hand M Dragi, is shooting arrows arrows at IMF for the admit of mistakes, and defends ECB.

As Greek I feel at least satisfied, cause seems that 'lazy' Greeks as Mercel call us, are not the ones to blaim,
but the problem is elsewhere as I always told,

Besides we all known that problem was not Cyprus and some Russian billions that existed there,
the problem is where some bankers ask for ECB to give money to 'fight' unemployment last month,
seems like EU problem is at the heart, and soon that will be seen,
no money no buy, no buy no market, no market no production, no production yes unemployment, yes unemployment yes low sallaries, just think at heart of EU sallaries of 750 E per month. cause no paradise market to buy their products,
that is what happened with EU south, and Greece especially,
my only hope is EU to change its politicians, with First my country,
 
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