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Thread: Why the vikings raided only in UK mainly and in France?

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    Why the vikings raided only in UK mainly and in France?



    I am very curious,why the vikings raided in UK mostly and 2nd in France and very few in rest of Europe?
    Also how is possibile that even though most present HG on paternal line in Scandinavia is I1 vikings were bearing mainly clades of scandinavian R1A1 ?
    Maybe R1A1 people were some different people that time?
    Is clear they are linked with Norway since there R1A1 scandinavian clades are most present there.
    Does anyone know how old english was ?I mean does still exists documents of how english was before the normans came there?
    Because for me it seems that old english is quite close to icelandic,no ideea how old norse language is.
    Viking raids started in 793,according to some historians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    I am very curious,why the vikings raided in UK mostly and 2nd in France and very few in rest of Europe?
    Also how is possibile that even though most present HG on paternal line in Scandinavia is I1 vikings were bearing mainly clades of scandinavian R1A1 ?
    Maybe R1A1 people were some different people that time?
    Is clear they are linked with Norway since there R1A1 scandinavian clades are most present there.
    Does anyone know how old english was ?I mean does still exists documents of how english was before the normans came there?
    Because for me it seems that old english is quite close to icelandic,no ideea how old norse language is.
    Viking raids started in 793,according to some historians.
    The because the russian and baltic people traded with the vikings on the other side, actually the russians asked the viking to rule over them as they could not govern themselves.
    Britain was rich with ex Roman monies and other wealth.

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    @Beowulf is in old English.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    The Vikings also raided Friesland, Flander and Portugal.

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    lots more on this thread which is now closed.

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...rallels/page11

    R1a1 The R1a lineage is believed to have originated in the Eurasian Steppes north of the Black & Caspian Seas. This lineage is thought to descend from a population of the Kurgan culture, known for the domestication of the horse (circa 3000 B.C.E.). These people were also believed to be the first speakers of the Indo-European language group. This lineage is found in central & western Asia, India, and in Slavic populations of Europe.
    i believe that it was slavic vikings that brought a lot of serbian words to ireland, wales, scotland.

    The Lusatian culture existed in the later Bronze Age and early Iron Age (1300 BCE – 500 BCE) in most of today's Poland, parts of Czech Republic and Slovakia, parts of eastern Germany (where it is known as Lausitz, Latin: Lusatia) and parts ofUkraine. It covers the Periods Montelius III (early Lusatian culture) to V of the Northern-European chronological scheme.
    There were close contacts with the Nordic Bronze Age, and the Scandinavian influence on Pomerania and northern Poland during this period was so considerable[1] that this region is sometimes included in the Nordic Bronze Age culture.[2]Hallstatt and La Tène influences are seen particularly in ornaments (fibulae, pins) and weapons.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusatian_culture


    A gord is a medieval Slavic fortified settlement, also occasionally known as a burgwall or Slavic burgwall after the German name for these sites. This Proto-Slavic word (*gordъ) for town or city, later differentiated into grad (Cyrillic: град), gard,[1][2] gorod (Cyrillic: город), etc.[3][4][5] The ancient peoples were known for building wooden fortified settlements. The reconstructed Centum-satem isogloss word for such a settlement is g'herdh, gordъ, related to the Germanic *gard and *gart (as in Stuttgart etc.).
    Similar strongholds were built during the late Bronze and early Iron Ages by the people of the Lusatian culture (ca. 1300 BC – 500 BC), and later in the 7th - 8th centuries CE in modern-day Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic and eastern Germany. These settlements were usually founded on strategic sites such as hills, riverbanks, lake islands or peninsulas.



    The helmets from the Vendel period are perhaps the most impressive grave goods from these burials.


    vendel vendish slavic celtic

    http://archeurope.com/index.php?page=vendel-helmets


    Valsgärde or Vallsgärde is a farm on the Fyris river, about three kilometres north of Gamla Uppsala, the ancient centre of the Swedish kings and of the pagan faith in Sweden.


    valsgarde vals garde (garde slavic fortified town in sweden)


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valsg%C3%A4rde


    After the Slavic migrations, the eastern area of modern Holstein was inhabited by Slavic Wagrians (Vagri) subgroup of Obotrites(Obotritae).



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...eswig-Holstein




    Nordalbingia and Wagria in 8th century-9th century


    Apart from northern Holstein and Schleswig inhabited by Danes there were Nordalbingia and Wagria in respectively, Western and Easterm Holstein.
    Nordalbingia (German: Nordalbingien, i.e. land north of the Elbe river) was one of the four administrative regions of the medieval Duchy of Saxony, the others being Angria, Eastphalia, and Westphalia. Nordalbingia consisted of four districts: Dithmarschen, Holstein, Stormarn (north of the Elbe) and Hadeln (south of the Elbe).
    The Wagri, Wagiri, or Wagrians were a tribe of Polabian Slavs inhabiting Wagria, or eastern Holstein in northern Germany, from the ninth to twelfth centuries. They were a constituent tribe of the Obodrite confederacy.



    There was a legend that Swedish Vikings established Russia ( Novgorod) but it has been proven long ago by Russian historians (like Rybakov and others) to be completely false. Germanic tribe Rus never existed.


    New genetic studies by Roewer at al. 2008 confirmed that Rybakov was right. Germanic haplogroups are not present in Novogrod (there is nothing in Ukraine too). From this paper you will also learn who the Russians are and how distant the Finns are:


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...6/?tool=pubmed


    Here you can find Excel files with data for Novogrod:


    http://dna-forums.com/index.php?/top...plotypes-data/


    I1 is 2.5% (1/40) and probably Polish or Baltic, R1b1b2 is 5% (2/40) and probably Armenian or Jewish. No trace of Germanic people in Novogrod.


    Rus were excellent horse riders and warriors and were using Sarmatian Coast of arms ‘tamygas’. West Slavic tribe Wagrians is considered to be the Rus by some. Wends were ruling on Baltic Sea then and it was called Wends Sea by contemporary writers so they could come with some help for Slavic brothers. I read somewhere that Novogrod and Tver areas are very close to Poland genetically, Fst lower than 0.002, so this would make sense.


    Vikings were merchants or sea robbers and didn’t ride horses, they were fighting on foot. How could they match Slavic Sarmatian, Scythian or Wendic horse mounted warriors. Wends defeated Saxons on many occasions and here is link where you can learn what Anglo-Saxons were doing with Vikings when they caught some:
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ution-pit.html


    int the book i asked you to read


    http://anthropology.tamu.edu/papers/...ski-MA1996.pdf


    there is a mention of slavic vikings using transporting horses and usig cavalery in the attack on Denmark.


    so there are your varangians and rus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dublin View Post
    lots more on this thread which is now closed.

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...rallels/page11



    i believe that it was slavic vikings that brought a lot of serbian words to ireland, wales, scotland.

    The Lusatian culture existed in the later Bronze Age and early Iron Age (1300 BCE – 500 BCE) in most of today's Poland, parts of Czech Republic and Slovakia, parts of eastern Germany (where it is known as Lausitz, Latin: Lusatia) and parts ofUkraine. It covers the Periods Montelius III (early Lusatian culture) to V of the Northern-European chronological scheme.
    There were close contacts with the Nordic Bronze Age, and the Scandinavian influence on Pomerania and northern Poland during this period was so considerable[1] that this region is sometimes included in the Nordic Bronze Age culture.[2]Hallstatt and La Tène influences are seen particularly in ornaments (fibulae, pins) and weapons.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusatian_culture


    A gord is a medieval Slavic fortified settlement, also occasionally known as a burgwall or Slavic burgwall after the German name for these sites. This Proto-Slavic word (*gordъ) for town or city, later differentiated into grad (Cyrillic: град), gard,[1][2] gorod (Cyrillic: город), etc.[3][4][5] The ancient peoples were known for building wooden fortified settlements. The reconstructed Centum-satem isogloss word for such a settlement is g'herdh, gordъ, related to the Germanic *gard and *gart (as in Stuttgart etc.).
    Similar strongholds were built during the late Bronze and early Iron Ages by the people of the Lusatian culture (ca. 1300 BC – 500 BC), and later in the 7th - 8th centuries CE in modern-day Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic and eastern Germany. These settlements were usually founded on strategic sites such as hills, riverbanks, lake islands or peninsulas.



    The helmets from the Vendel period are perhaps the most impressive grave goods from these burials.


    vendel vendish slavic celtic

    http://archeurope.com/index.php?page=vendel-helmets


    Valsgärde or Vallsgärde is a farm on the Fyris river, about three kilometres north of Gamla Uppsala, the ancient centre of the Swedish kings and of the pagan faith in Sweden.


    valsgarde vals garde (garde slavic fortified town in sweden)


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valsg%C3%A4rde


    After the Slavic migrations, the eastern area of modern Holstein was inhabited by Slavic Wagrians (Vagri) subgroup of Obotrites(Obotritae).



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...eswig-Holstein




    Nordalbingia and Wagria in 8th century-9th century


    Apart from northern Holstein and Schleswig inhabited by Danes there were Nordalbingia and Wagria in respectively, Western and Easterm Holstein.
    Nordalbingia (German: Nordalbingien, i.e. land north of the Elbe river) was one of the four administrative regions of the medieval Duchy of Saxony, the others being Angria, Eastphalia, and Westphalia. Nordalbingia consisted of four districts: Dithmarschen, Holstein, Stormarn (north of the Elbe) and Hadeln (south of the Elbe).
    The Wagri, Wagiri, or Wagrians were a tribe of Polabian Slavs inhabiting Wagria, or eastern Holstein in northern Germany, from the ninth to twelfth centuries. They were a constituent tribe of the Obodrite confederacy.



    There was a legend that Swedish Vikings established Russia ( Novgorod) but it has been proven long ago by Russian historians (like Rybakov and others) to be completely false. Germanic tribe Rus never existed.


    New genetic studies by Roewer at al. 2008 confirmed that Rybakov was right. Germanic haplogroups are not present in Novogrod (there is nothing in Ukraine too). From this paper you will also learn who the Russians are and how distant the Finns are:


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...6/?tool=pubmed


    Here you can find Excel files with data for Novogrod:


    http://dna-forums.com/index.php?/top...plotypes-data/


    I1 is 2.5% (1/40) and probably Polish or Baltic, R1b1b2 is 5% (2/40) and probably Armenian or Jewish. No trace of Germanic people in Novogrod.


    Rus were excellent horse riders and warriors and were using Sarmatian Coast of arms ‘tamygas’. West Slavic tribe Wagrians is considered to be the Rus by some. Wends were ruling on Baltic Sea then and it was called Wends Sea by contemporary writers so they could come with some help for Slavic brothers. I read somewhere that Novogrod and Tver areas are very close to Poland genetically, Fst lower than 0.002, so this would make sense.


    Vikings were merchants or sea robbers and didn’t ride horses, they were fighting on foot. How could they match Slavic Sarmatian, Scythian or Wendic horse mounted warriors. Wends defeated Saxons on many occasions and here is link where you can learn what Anglo-Saxons were doing with Vikings when they caught some:
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ution-pit.html


    int the book i asked you to read


    http://anthropology.tamu.edu/papers/...ski-MA1996.pdf


    there is a mention of slavic vikings using transporting horses and usig cavalery in the attack on Denmark.


    so there are your varangians and rus.

    You put here some good stuff but the conclusions to extract from them are somewhat unclear:
    the expression "centum-satem isoglosse" concerning vocabulary is unclear enough I prefer keep this notion of isoglosse to phonetic phenomenons - the roots of slavic 'grad', germanic 'gaard' are akin to celtic 'gart', 'garth' and latin 'hort-' - the meanings of old I-E words concerning settlements has always been very variable, from 'inclosed farm' to 'stronghold' or 'fortification', loosing their martial meanings with time to become somethings as "enclosure" or "garden" on one side, and "town" on another side so a place in Scandinavia containing the word 'gard' does not signify previously a slavic stronghold or fortress...

    about horses: Vikings in Brittany took horses with them, even on their boats sometimes so they knew to ride horses even if they was perhaps not so skilful for that as steppic ancient peoples - you could object that these Vikings was of Slavic origin - for I know, the Vikings of Brittany had scandinavian personal names...
    what about these names, too: apparently all the Vikings chiefs known to us had germanic names, not slavic?
    Maybe have you some data on that?

    the occupation of Northeastern Germany by Slavic tribes is without contestation - it is not to prove that they was genuine good sailors...

    concerning Novgorod, the genetic composition of today is not by obligation the one of the ancient times -
    by the (same) way, the today genetic composition of East Germany is only slightly influenced by slavic common markers the most of which came recently with Poles immigration - old Slavs became removed as previous Germanics had been...

    concerning Rys/Rus I have no available data to confirm or contredict the scandinavian theory that was well accepted until recently

    just some thoughts -
    PS have you some examples of slavic or baltic words passed into french as we have some scandinavian words and placenames in Normandy : because I don't see why only Brittain and Ireland languages should have been influenced?


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Portugal indeed.
    Vikings from Brittany funded a settlement in the area of my hometwon, we also have an unusual number of fair and blue eye in our local population.
    We even have a neurodegenerative disease in a small population that only appears in this small part of Portugal and on northern Sweden. Search "Transthyretin-related hereditary amyloidosis" for some information on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    You put here some good stuff but the conclusions to extract from them are somewhat unclear:
    the expression "centum-satem isoglosse" concerning vocabulary is unclear enough I prefer keep this notion of isoglosse to phonetic phenomenons - the roots of slavic 'grad', germanic 'gaard' are akin to celtic 'gart', 'garth' and latin 'hort-' - the meanings of old I-E words concerning settlements has always been very variable, from 'inclosed farm' to 'stronghold' or 'fortification', loosing their martial meanings with time to become somethings as "enclosure" or "garden" on one side, and "town" on another side so a place in Scandinavia containing the word 'gard' does not signify previously a slavic stronghold or fortress...

    about horses: Vikings in Brittany took horses with them, even on their boats sometimes so they knew to ride horses even if they was perhaps not so skilful for that as steppic ancient peoples - you could object that these Vikings was of Slavic origin - for I know, the Vikings of Brittany had scandinavian personal names...
    what about these names, too: apparently all the Vikings chiefs known to us had germanic names, not slavic?
    Maybe have you some data on that?

    the occupation of Northeastern Germany by Slavic tribes is without contestation - it is not to prove that they was genuine good sailors...

    concerning Novgorod, the genetic composition of today is not by obligation the one of the ancient times -
    by the (same) way, the today genetic composition of East Germany is only slightly influenced by slavic common markers the most of which came recently with Poles immigration - old Slavs became removed as previous Germanics had been...

    concerning Rys/Rus I have no available data to confirm or contredict the scandinavian theory that was well accepted until recently

    just some thoughts -
    PS have you some examples of slavic or baltic words passed into french as we have some scandinavian words and placenames in Normandy : because I don't see why only Brittain and Ireland languages should have been influenced?

    most of what you say I have read as well, I just like to add somethings extra.
    The brittany "vikings/norse" people where known as the black norse ( black norse = danish, white norse = norway) , they , as well as the Vanelli ( unelli) originated in satakunda (west finland) . The norse of brittany by percentage occupied the cotentin peninsula more so, than the brest peninsula , and these areas wjere known to the normans by ancient accounts.
    The story is that the normans did not conquer normandy , but only reinenforced one of there ancient homelands.

    They used leather for sails ( finnish invention ) and this was either passed down to the veneti or the veneti was part of them. Julius Caesar remarked on these leather sails of the veneti as these where the only type which could be used in sailing the irish sea to northern cornwall and wales. (or beyond).

    gart standing corn, Irish gort, cornfield, Old Irish gort, seges; Greek @Ghórtos, fodder. See goirtean further.

    gar warm, Irish goraim, Old Irish gorim, Breton gor, burning, Welsh gwrês, heat: *gorô, I warm; Greek @Gqeros, summer heat, @Gqermós, warm, English thermo-meter; Latin furnus, oven, furnace; Church Slavonic gorêti, burn; further English warm (Indo-European *@gh@+uormo-, Teutonic gwarm).

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    I heard a story about Vikings raiding or traiding with Maurs (Maurirania) and even sail more south.
    History say that Vikings sometimes reach Greece from from North west (via gibraltar) and even more to Palestine.

    their naviagtion was based upon an ancient stone quidance wich is almost useless bellow 50th parallel.
    Ηλιολιθος a stone that reflect sunlight in a certain angle, so by using 2 of them they could know every time the parallel, no matter fog or cloudy weather,
    Britain has enough cloudy and fog days so it was easy for them to 'surprise' with a raid, but more south with smoke signals and sunny weather it was difficult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    most of what you say I have read as well, I just like to add somethings extra.
    The brittany "vikings/norse" people where known as the black norse ( black norse = danish, white norse = norway) , they , as well as the Vanelli ( unelli) originated in satakunda (west finland) . The norse of brittany by percentage occupied the cotentin peninsula more so, than the brest peninsula , and these areas wjere known to the normans by ancient accounts.
    The story is that the normans did not conquer normandy , but only reinenforced one of there ancient homelands.

    They used leather for sails ( finnish invention ) and this was either passed down to the veneti or the veneti was part of them. Julius Caesar remarked on these leather sails of the veneti as these where the only type which could be used in sailing the irish sea to northern cornwall and wales. (or beyond).

    gart standing corn, Irish gort, cornfield, Old Irish gort, seges; Greek @Ghórtos, fodder. See goirtean further.

    gar warm, Irish goraim, Old Irish gorim, Breton gor, burning, Welsh gwrês, heat: *gorô, I warm; Greek @Gqeros, summer heat, @Gqermós, warm, English thermo-meter; Latin furnus, oven, furnace; Church Slavonic gorêti, burn; further English warm (Indo-European *@gh@+uormo-, Teutonic gwarm).

    some personal remarks:
    -the invention or the use of some useful stuff or material is not always the property of an unic population -
    the leather sails are not the marker of an unic origin - even an unic origin is not an obstacle to technical loans that do not need any demic transfert - some similar conditions (climate etc...) can help the adoption of a previously foreign technic (clothes: look at Celts, Scythes, Germanics, Turcs ancient people concerning some partos of their clothing)-
    -which are the historical prooves of the finlandic origine of Unellil-Venelli or their norman origin? I am very very unaware of that! and very sceptical about your sources, for the moment/...
    -what value have your ethymology putting in the same bag the celtic roots with *gor- and the germanic one *warm (*war-m?) - what is this "teutonic GWARM" ?!? the latin 'furn' with f- ??? latin F- corresponds more to PIE *BH- (B in celtic and germanic) and the previous PIE *W- gave for the most F- in present day gaelic languages and GW- in brittonic languages (sometimes GOU-) -
    -whatever the possible IE community of all this words concerning the meanings of "hot", "warm", "oven", "burn"... --community that would be possible only if these words was loaned by one to the other after the first PIE separation -- I do not see what they prove? old IE roots can not link to precisely only two folks among all the European ancient populations
    - concerning the Vikings in Brittany (they came in two successive waves) the Norvegians as well as the Danes occupied some parts of Brittany and not only the Danes -

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    Quote Originally Posted by spongetaro View Post
    The Vikings also raided Friesland, Flander and Portugal.
    Good to hear sometimes about other lands raided by Vikings other than the everyday seafaring stuff about England, Scotland, Normandy and Dublin. Wondering though why the (seeming) lack of -by endings in Friesland and Flanders palcenames, or does it take some kind of form like: -bij over there(?)

    Indeed, outside it's Scandinavia homeland, -by in placenames seems only to of truthfully taken root in England and (the rather unafield) Sleswick stretch of far northern Deutschland - and hereafter within Sleswick, only found in and around the English former homeland: Angeln.

    How was it that Angeln (not so long ago) was Danish speaking but not the other bits of Sleswick to the north, west and south of Angeln(?) Gessing Angeln was sometime cleansed of it's Anglo-Frisian-like speakers by the Danish speaking Viking bringers of -by endings(?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    most of what you say I have read as well, I just like to add somethings extra.
    The brittany "vikings/norse" people where known as the black norse ( black norse = danish, white norse = norway) , they , as well as the Vanelli ( unelli) originated in satakunda (west finland) . The norse of brittany by percentage occupied the cotentin peninsula more so, than the brest peninsula , and these areas wjere known to the normans by ancient accounts.
    The story is that the normans did not conquer normandy , but only reinenforced one of there ancient homelands.

    They used leather for sails ( finnish invention ) and this was either passed down to the veneti or the veneti was part of them. Julius Caesar remarked on these leather sails of the veneti as these where the only type which could be used in sailing the irish sea to northern cornwall and wales. (or beyond).
    I hadn't heard of the black and white Norse before, very interesting. You lost me on the corn references though, could you further connect the dots please? Did the Vikings bring over corn or did explorers from Wales?

    And the Vikings did cause some problems in the east as well. They were certainly more well behaved with the Russians than with the Irish and English, but they had to pull their slaves that they traded at Constantinople from somewhere. The amount of silver hordes they were able to accumulate illustrate that they had access to some pretty valuable treasure... I don't know that squirrel and fox pelts could explain that amount of wealth. And they did have skirmishes with the Byzantines, just not on the scale (by orders of magnitude) that we see in the British Isles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicfoyer View Post
    I hadn't heard of the black and white Norse before, very interesting.
    The Irish called the Vikings gall which meant stranger. They further broke the gall into two groups who came from different lands.

    The Norwegians were called the Fionn Gall 'fair strangers' and the Danes, the Dubh Gall 'dark strangers'.

    Today the Fingal area just north of Dublin is a reminder of Fionn Gall, and the surname Doyle is a family of the Dubh Gall.

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    Great information Eochaidh. Could it be that the surname McDougall might originate from "Dubh Gall" in Ireland as well?

    Or even Dublin... Dubh land?

    EDIT
    I checked out the Doyle surname on familytreedna and they are massively R1b. I thought they might be more I1 in the mix, but there's only two.
    Last edited by nordicfoyer; 21-02-13 at 02:22. Reason: added info

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eochaidh View Post
    The Irish called the Vikings gall which meant stranger. They further broke the gall into two groups who came from different lands.

    The Norwegians were called the Fionn Gall 'fair strangers' and the Danes, the Dubh Gall 'dark strangers'.

    Today the Fingal area just north of Dublin is a reminder of Fionn Gall, and the surname Doyle is a family of the Dubh Gall.
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by nordicfoyer View Post
    Great information Eochaidh. Could it be that the surname McDougall might originate from "Dubh Gall" in Ireland as well?

    Or even Dublin... Dubh land?

    EDIT
    I checked out the Doyle surname on familytreedna and they are massively R1b. I thought they might be more I1 in the mix, but there's only two.
    The name "MacDougall" comes comes from the personal name "Dougall" which comes from "Dubh-gall", which as you know means "dark foreigner" or "black stranger". Dougall was the son of Somerled (Dubhgall mac Somhairle), Somerled is a pretty famous Norse-Gaelic ruler of the Hebrides.

    The English name for Dublin comes from the Irish "Dubhlinn" which means "Black pool", however the Gaelic name for Dublin is Baile Átha Cliath meaning "town of the hurdled ford". It seems a few of the placenames in Ireland in English don't carry over well at all to the Gaelic names.

    The thing with clans/septs is you can't expect the DNA to show the original stock of the founding line. For example in Scotland many "broken men" joined into a clan that they didn't belong to by birth. Clan MacGregor is famous for members changing their names to avoid persecution from the King for bearing the name "MacGregor", and some chiefly lines of clans died out unfortunately.

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    I'm glad you followed up with that Spruithean, I was playing on Google Translate to find what the second part of "Dublin" could be tied to (I knew the Dubh/black part). I assumed it was land, but that was a no go... the closest I got was "angle".

    I have genetics from both Ireland and the Danish so this area very much interests me. In my mind, I had always pegged the Vikings that raided Ireland as being from Norway, and this Black Norse/Fair Norse or stranger is a new lead for discovery. I've been reading about Septs too Spruithean, great minds must think alike!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicfoyer View Post
    I'm glad you followed up with that Spruithean, I was playing on Google Translate to find what the second part of "Dublin" could be tied to (I knew the Dubh/black part). I assumed it was land, but that was a no go... the closest I got was "angle".

    I have genetics from both Ireland and the Danish so this area very much interests me. In my mind, I had always pegged the Vikings that raided Ireland as being from Norway, and this Black Norse/Fair Norse or stranger is a new lead for discovery. I've been reading about Septs too Spruithean, great minds must think alike!
    I too have genetics from Ireland... however I am not aware of any recent Danish or Norwegian roots.

    While it's probably true that many Norwegians were present in Ireland we can't forget that the Danes were also present in the Isles (even in Scotland, the Scottish king Indulf was killed by "Danes" in the Battle of Bauds). We have to remember the term "Norse" or "Norsemen" referred to the "North men" the raiders who came from the North. I would imagine the Danes and Norwegians, even Swedes were sharing their genetics during this time period.

    The Dubh-Gall were even noted as having a "hunnish" strain in them, referring to their more southern Germanic neighbours rather than the actual Huns themselves?

    Actually there are two famous Danes at the time of Clontarf, Brodir and Ospak of Man. Brodir is known for killing Brian Boru... Brodir himself was apparently brutally killed by another Scandinavian warrior called "Ulf the Quarrelsome" (Ulf Hreda). Ulf apparently led Brodir's entrails round a tree .


    Oh yeah and Dublin's original pronunciation can be seen in the Old Languages of that era in forms like "Dyflin" or "Divlyn".

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    yggdrasil
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    ^ I knew all of these names from video games before I got a chance to learn what they really meant in my intro to mythology class

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    Quote Originally Posted by Selwyn Greenfrith View Post
    Good to hear sometimes about other lands raided by Vikings other than the everyday seafaring stuff about England, Scotland, Normandy and Dublin. Wondering though why the (seeming) lack of -by endings in Friesland and Flanders palcenames, or does it take some kind of form like: -bij over there(?)

    Indeed, outside it's Scandinavia homeland, -by in placenames seems only to of truthfully taken root in England and (the rather unafield) Sleswick stretch of far northern Deutschland - and hereafter within Sleswick, only found in and around the English former homeland: Angeln.

    How was it that Angeln (not so long ago) was Danish speaking but not the other bits of Sleswick to the north, west and south of Angeln(?) Gessing Angeln was sometime cleansed of it's Anglo-Frisian-like speakers by the Danish speaking Viking bringers of -by endings(?)
    Further to England and Sleswick, outside Scandinavia -by placenames are (indeed) also to be found on the Isle of Man, and lightly in lowland Scotland (oftmost in the shape of -bie) by way of Cumbria and Yorkshire but not Durham and Northumberland (the North East)

    *Creepy illiterate spellchecker flags up the word 'Northumberland' - How the flipping heck can 'Northumberland' be unbeknownst to the spellchecker whilst 'Durham' and 'Yorkshire' and even 'heck' stand ununbeknownst to it, so to speak(?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Selwyn Greenfrith View Post
    Further to England and Sleswick, outside Scandinavia -by placenames are (indeed) also to be found on the Isle of Man, and lightly in lowland Scotland (oftmost in the shape of -bie) by way of Cumbria and Yorkshire but not Durham and Northumberland...
    Nice find... that could explain some of the "more recent" I1 in Scotland.

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    [QUOTE=MOESAN;396922]
    -what value have your ethymology putting in the same bag the celtic roots with *gor- and the germanic one *warm (*war-m?) - what is this "teutonic GWARM" ?!? the latin 'furn' with f- ??? latin F- corresponds more to PIE *BH- (B in celtic and germanic) and the previous PIE *W- gave for the most F- in present day gaelic languages and GW- in brittonic languages (sometimes GOU-) -
    -whatever the possible IE community of all this words concerning the meanings of "hot", "warm", "oven", "burn"... --community that would be possible only if these words was loaned by one to the other after the first PIE separation -- I do not see what they prove? old IE roots can not link to precisely only two folks among all the European ancient populations
    -
    SORRY I correct myself (with great shame!)
    for the "heat" meaning, yes *Gwh- TOO gave apparently W- in germanic, F- in latin and G- in satem languages - for celtic, I don't know, maybe G- (so: possible in gaelic) rather than W- (so F- in gaelic)
    I know this confession doesn't give a "lift" to this thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicfoyer View Post
    Nice find... that could explain some of the "more recent" I1 in Scotland.
    My paternal line seems to have been from an area with some surrounding place names with "bie" in them. I know in Dumfriesshire, Scotland there is a place called "Lockerbie" which means "Lockard's Farm". There was Germanic influence in this area of Scotland, even the area of Galloway was originally part of a Gallgáedil kingdom (Foreign Gael).

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    My paternal line seems to have been from an area with some surrounding place names with "bie" in them. I know in Dumfriesshire, Scotland there is a place called "Lockerbie" which means "Lockard's Farm". There was Germanic influence in this area of Scotland, even the area of Galloway was originally part of a Gallgáedil kingdom (Foreign Gael).
    To be more straightforward, these -bie/-by endings can straightforwardly be seen to be brought to southwest Scotland from England by both the Anglo-Norse and Anglo-Danes.

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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    The Vikings are defeated in Andalusia

    They came well to the very Sevilla on 25 September and this time were successful, managed to take the city with little resistance (although the citadel never surrender) and from there inland incursions began riding horses stolen. The booty was large.


    The emir, quickly organized an army in Cordoba to expel the intruders, Rahman II, stunned in front of some warriors who within days had plundered three towns in its territory and moved at a speed unthinkable, managed to gather a large army and decided to ambush the Vikings south of Seville, in a place called "Quintos de Muafar". Keep in mind that the volume of the Viking expedition vessels used should be composed of a maximum of 1800 warriors which involved considerable force.


    At dawn, when the troops departed from Seville Viking towards Moron Muslim troops waited for the signal agreed to pounce en masse to the invaders slaughtering many of them and getting to enter Seville to release it again. Several detachments Vikings had previously dispersed to other parts of Andalusia to continue their looting raids, those who escaped alive from Sevilla decided to return to their ships and keep going up the Guadalquivir in the hope of finding some of the troops had led to Cordoba, finally got back together again and downstream from both sides constantly harassed by Muslims.

    Once left behind Sevilla, parleyed with Muslims and agreed to return all the prisoners they had made to change clothes and food to allow them to continue their journey. They also asked the Caliph of Cordoba sent an emissary as his ambassador to the king.


    But near the present Tablada, were eventually caught by the bulk of the Muslim army, the battle was bloody and killed many men, it speaks more than 500 men and four boats. The punishment for those arrested was exemplary and many ended up hanging from the palms of Tablada.


    But not everyone fell, those who escaped the slaughter achieved retaliate Fog City raiding and plundering before returning to the Atlantic. Thus ended the first Viking raids on the Peninsula, but did not forget those "blamenn" (black men), as they called the Saracens as talk of all the riches they had seen, which would lead to future expeditions.


    It's the movie that Hollywood will never

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    Carlos, thats a great post, probably the most interesting ,informative posts ive read on this site, wish i could give two helpful ratings. Is this a traditional story, thats told in your region of Spain, or did you read it somewhere?

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