Is there any difference between Kosovo Albanians and Albanians from Albania?

Why?

you just took a general data found here and you make conclusions,
no further DYS, no mtDNA no autosomal data,
since you could found the data , you can easily find the data I tell you,

by what I remember is M319 M 339 L70 although may I am wrong,

Y-Dna is only one of the tools, a good one, but just one,

J2 Hg is a strange Y-dna that has mother land the areas around of R1b and G,
remarkable is that in India we find almost little to zero R1b but big J2
J2 can be the alternative of R1b and R1a in IE theory with G
J2 can be the Aryan linguistic group,
J2 is connected with Greco-Aryan and Indo-Iranian population, from Zagros devastate to India, and from Zagros to Greece (Διας Ζαγρευς, Κουρητες Etc) and rest mediterrenean colonisation,
it is still unknown when entered Europe, but some suspect that Tripolye was J2a culture,
until today only G is found in Neolithic Europe and R1b and R1a with the known Tumuli theory,
but when did J2?

from Crete we realize that was present at iron age 900-1100BC, but still we don't know if entered same time with G, after G and Before R1 or after G and R1.


in fact Varna Necropolis skeletons are very helpfull.
the presence or lack of J2 or R1 is catalytic to understand many.

the Truth is I myshelf need lessons to understand more genneticks,
but the first lesson i learn is that the highest peak % does not count,
meaning that a population with 80% Hg can come from a population with 2% of the same Hg,
there good genetists in the forum, better than my ignorance to explain why to you.


I researched M319 and this is what I found from the article "Paleolithic Y-haplogroup heritage predominates in a Cretan highland plateau":
"Of the 57 J2-DYS413 chromosomes in Crete, a total of nine chromosomes are derived at J2a1h-M319 (Figure 2). This mutation was recently discovered in one Iraqi and two Moroccan chromosomes24 and to our knowledge, it has not been reported in any other population. Interestingly, seven out of the nine Cretan M319-derived chromosomes have the (CA)16-(CA)18 genotype at the DYS413 microsatellite marker, a pattern that was not observed in any other DYS413-derived lineage. A prominent frequency of DYS413 (CA)16-(CA)18 chromosomes in Crete, and particularly in the prefecture of Chania, was detected in the past and was attributed to a founder effect in the island.7 It appears from our results that this founder effect is associated with the introduction or origin in Crete of the J2a1h-M319 mutation."

M319 is found among greeks at 4.3% only in the island of crete. So even this questionable autocthonous greek hg is found among greeks at an insignificant percentage.

M339 and L70, you claimed them, you prove them to be native of greece...

If you look at Figure 4 in the above article, one can realize that albanians and greeks are closer genetically than any other 2 populations in the mediterannean (at least as far as y-DNA is concerned).
 
I researched M319 and this is what I found from the article "Paleolithic Y-haplogroup heritage predominates in a Cretan highland plateau":
"Of the 57 J2-DYS413 chromosomes in Crete, a total of nine chromosomes are derived at J2a1h-M319 (Figure 2). This mutation was recently discovered in one Iraqi and two Moroccan chromosomes24 and to our knowledge, it has not been reported in any other population. Interestingly, seven out of the nine Cretan M319-derived chromosomes have the (CA)16-(CA)18 genotype at the DYS413 microsatellite marker, a pattern that was not observed in any other DYS413-derived lineage. A prominent frequency of DYS413 (CA)16-(CA)18 chromosomes in Crete, and particularly in the prefecture of Chania, was detected in the past and was attributed to a founder effect in the island.7 It appears from our results that this founder effect is associated with the introduction or origin in Crete of the J2a1h-M319 mutation."

M319 is found among greeks at 4.3% only in the island of crete. So even this questionable autocthonous greek hg is found among greeks at an insignificant percentage.

M339 and L70, you claimed them, you prove them to be native of greece...

If you look at Figure 4 in the above article, one can realize that albanians and greeks are closer genetically than any other 2 populations in the mediterannean (at least as far as y-DNA is concerned).

well to make my shelf clear,

I said some J2a are identical to Greece, and you just prove it,
same is with L70 and M339 if I remmember correct, search which population share them,
I don't deny that Greek and Albanian population are near in Y-Dna,, simply I say you need more than that to calim such a thing,
like autosomals, mtDNA and more,
now the connection is from ancient times colonisation that continue at Roman times, Byzantine times, and late canturies,
I spoke about a go and come and go of population,
now some varieties of Y-Dna can help better to understand, for example in E hg Greece has diversities that are not found in Albanian population and Albania has one diversity that have not found among Greek population, by a possble estimation of mutation time and origin of type you can find a lot of things,
now if you want me to say Yes, then Yes, there is a relation among Albanian and Greek population, but it is more complex,
For example Arberesh and some Arbanites spotted population have autosomal more connected to Italy than Greece and Albania, no matter what Y-DNA shows,
I have posted a link somewhere in the forum about that according Dienekes.
 
crete has a population of 621 340, out of which roughly 310 000 are males, M319 is at 4.3% in crete. This means that in the whole greece there are only 13.000 men who might be native of greece, the rest which is 5.500.000 none knows where they came from. It could be rome, persia, albania, turkey, bulgaria, serbia, africa etc. 13.000 out of 5.500.000 is only 0.2%. If nothing else this proves that greeks are not native of greece.

This leads me to think that the simmilarity between greeks and albanians has little to do with the native greeks of crete, who have pretty much dissapeared from the area. In my opinion the simmilarity is because albania and greece have been the same country for at least 2000 years consecutively under the romans, byzantines, and ottomans.
 
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The highest quantities of J among Greeks is in Crete which had little to do with Persians. Also, J in Greece is mostly J2, there is very little to none of J1 (which have probably must have been in some quantities among the Persian armies) in mainland Greece. Even among Greeks from Asia Minor, which have actually been under the Persian empire (mainland Greece, south of Macedonia, did not) J1 is in very low quantities. Also Greek colonies in Magna Graecia have J2 too. So we know that most of it is probably from Ancient Greeks.

Had the Greeks mixed with Persians, more of J1 must have been within the Greek population. The J1 which is scarcely detected in Greeks is probably from interaction from Phoenicians. Minoans could have had some as well. However, I noticed on the above graph by Zanipolo that Kosovar Albanians have high amounts of J1. Bosniacs have some too. This is probably due to interaction with Anatolian Turks.

J1 (Semitic/Arab) is around 2% in Greece (mostly Crete), while it is 3.6 among Albanians and 6.3% among FYROM-Albanians. Also, it is 2.4% among Bosniacs. More than any other surrounding Slavic people. Phoenicians and Persians probably never interacted with Albanians and North-Balkan peoples, so J1 must be from another, much more recent source, i.e. Turks or Arabs.

Note: I don't claim that J1 is Persian, but the Persians (and in any case their armies) surely had it much more than the Greeks.
But Greeks posses also the highest percentage of T and 1.1% of L.
How do you explain this?
 
crete has a population of 621 340, out of which roughly 310 000 are males, M319 is at 4.3% in crete. This means that in the whole greece there are only 13.000 men who might be native of greece, the rest which is 5.500.000 none knows where they came from. It could be rome, persia, albania, turkey, bulgaria, serbia, africa etc. 13.000 out of 5.500.000 is only 0.2%. If nothing else this proves that greeks are not native of greece.

This leads me to think that the simmilarity between greeks and albanians has little to do with the native greeks of crete, who have pretty much dissapeared from the area. In my opinion the simmilarity is because albania and greece have been the same country for at least 2000 years consecutively under the romans, byzantines, and ottomans.

Are we playing games with numbers?

I see Canadian flag and I guess that you are an Albanian in origin cause you try that connection,

OK CAN YOU TELL US AN AYTOCHTHONUS Y_DNA OF CANADA?
I GUESS NONE OR SOME AMERIDIAN, SO WITH YOUR LOGIC WHO IS CANADIAN? WHY YOU CARRY THAT FLAG?

CONSIDERING THAT E IN BALKANS IS CYPRIOT, IF I FOLLOW YOUR LOGIC HALF POPULATION OF KOSSOVO ARE CYPRIOTS
CONSIDERING THAT I2b1 IS SLAVIC THEN WHO IS ALBANIAN ?,
IS THAT YOPUR LOGIC?


WHEN YOU ANSWER ME THAT QUESTION I WIIL ANSWER YOU,

WHICH HG IS NATIVE IN EUROPE?


simply if I follow your childish logic that only 13 000 Greek are Greeks then I can prove you many garbage about anyone,
just answer us which is native to Europe? to realize what you have just said,

CONSIDER WHAT YOU HAVE JUST CLAIM.

IF COUNTRY HAS NO AUTOCHTHONUS DNA THEN NOBOBY BELONGS TO IT,

AND I ASK YOU,
BY FOLLOWING YOUR LOGIC, HOW MUCH AUTOCHTHONUS CANADA HAS? HOW MUCH ALBANIA AND KOSSOVO HAS?
 
But Greeks posses also the highest percentage of T and 1.1% of L.
How do you explain this?

T HG

I am not familiar to that but I know that there many T like Ethiopean one, the middle East one and some rest,

I am not going to search where that T is found and which subclade is,

HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT THAT AS J2 MOVED COULD CARRY SOME T WITH IT?
HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT THAT T also exists in Hebrew and is spread in all countries?

why don't you make an analysis of that T to tell us from where it came, where it is spread, when it entered?
T can be found even in the North Europe,
 
But Greeks posses also the highest percentage of T and 1.1% of L.
How do you explain this?

I don't know what you mean here, T and L arrived in europe with G.
As an example otzi in the alps is G, but western austria has 8.8% of T, Northeast Italy has 4.5% of T.
or
do you mean T of MtDna?
 
T HG

I am not familiar to that but I know that there many T like Ethiopean one, the middle East one and some rest,

I am not going to search where that T is found and which subclade is,

HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT THAT AS J2 MOVED COULD CARRY SOME T WITH IT?
HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT THAT T also exists in Hebrew and is spread in all countries?

why don't you make an analysis of that T to tell us from where it came, where it is spread, when it entered?
T can be found even in the North Europe,

T is found as far away as siberia to india to ireland to morocco to south africa to arabia ..........it is purely only a hunter gatherer marker and not a farming marker like G.

In Greeks its referred by genetic scholars as a "mixed greek" term/people........doric mixing with ionian and minoan


BTW...is it not amazing that I am T and yet all tests say I am 100% european. the tests go back as far as 2500 years from what I was told. It means I could have arrived with the late bronze-age migrations from western asia/steppes
 
But Greeks posses also the highest percentage of T and 1.1% of L.
How do you explain this?

If you would care to explain your insinuation, then perhaps I can comment on that. In any case, haplogroup L2 is detected in many places in Southern Europe. What does this have to do with the Persians? Don't think Northern Italians which have 4.5% of L2 are descendants of Persians (Iranians have very little L2 btw). But the very low frequenty of L2 in Greeks could come -in part- from Venetians or perhaps from Romans, Armenians or Greek Pontians who lived in the Caucasus for millenia. Then again, it's also detectable in Calabria so it could have been present in Greece in low quantities since ancient times. At least in some localities.

Altogether 1.1% of L2 in Greeks is not as puzzling to me as reasonable quantities of J1 in Albanians and Bosniacs.

But it's a good thing you bring up haplogroup T which is detectable all over Europe. According to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T_(Y-DNA)

Albanians South of the Drin river have 3.3% of T. Close (perhaps slightly less) to the mainland Greek standards. What strikes me is that T is not detected in Kosovars and North Albanians (Gheghs).

Where does T in South Albanians come from and why is it not present in North Albanians/Kosovars?
 
Are we playing games with numbers?

I see Canadian flag and I guess that you are an Albanian in origin cause you try that connection,

OK CAN YOU TELL US AN AYTOCHTHONUS Y_DNA OF CANADA?
I GUESS NONE OR SOME AMERIDIAN, SO WITH YOUR LOGIC WHO IS CANADIAN? WHY YOU CARRY THAT FLAG?

CONSIDERING THAT E IN BALKANS IS CYPRIOT, IF I FOLLOW YOUR LOGIC HALF POPULATION OF KOSSOVO ARE CYPRIOTS
CONSIDERING THAT I2b1 IS SLAVIC THEN WHO IS ALBANIAN ?,
IS THAT YOPUR LOGIC?


WHEN YOU ANSWER ME THAT QUESTION I WIIL ANSWER YOU,

WHICH HG IS NATIVE IN EUROPE?


simply if I follow your childish logic that only 13 000 Greek are Greeks then I can prove you many garbage about anyone,
just answer us which is native to Europe? to realize what you have just said,

CONSIDER WHAT YOU HAVE JUST CLAIM.

IF COUNTRY HAS NO AUTOCHTHONUS DNA THEN NOBOBY BELONGS TO IT,

AND I ASK YOU,
BY FOLLOWING YOUR LOGIC, HOW MUCH AUTOCHTHONUS CANADA HAS? HOW MUCH ALBANIA AND KOSSOVO HAS?

I gave you data and real scientific studies showing that greeks are not native of greece and you called them childish without giving any reasoning. I could start a discussion as to E V-13 being native to albanians but you probably will twist that too into some form of political discussion, so if you don't provide any scientific sources or data, there is no really point in talking to you.
 
If you would care to explain your insinuation, then perhaps I can comment on that. In any case, haplogroup L2 is detected in many places in Southern Europe. What does this have to do with the Persians? Don't think Northern Italians which have 4.5% of L2 are descendants of Persians (Iranians have very little L2 btw). But the very low frequenty of L2 in Greeks could come -in part- from Venetians or perhaps from Romans, Armenians or Greek Pontians who lived in the Caucasus for millenia. Then again, it's also detectable in Calabria so it could have been present in Greece in low quantities since ancient times. At least in some localities.

Altogether 1.1% of L2 in Greeks is not as puzzling to me as reasonable quantities of J1 in Albanians and Bosniacs.

But it's a good thing you bring up haplogroup T which is detectable all over Europe. According to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T_(Y-DNA)

Albanians South of the Drin river have 3.3% of T. Close (perhaps slightly less) to the mainland Greek standards. What strikes me is that T is not detected in Kosovars and North Albanians (Gheghs).

Where does T in South Albanians come from and why is it not present in North Albanians/Kosovars?
If your argument is it's detectable in many places in Europe than i can say the same about J1 much more than L for sure and comparable to T probably.
Don't try to deviate data, your link has only 30 Albanians.
In the chart that Zanipolo posted that has much larger sample of Albanians( 119 vs 30 in the link you posted) there's no T found, so that 1 T was probably just noise.
So let's add 119 + 30= 149.
1 Albanian on 149 had T, that makes less than 1%.
So T in Albanians isn't just slightly less compared to Greeks, it's 4.8 % vs less than 1%.
And how can you say that T Albanian was from south?
 
I don't know what you mean here, T and L arrived in europe with G.
As an example otzi in the alps is G, but western austria has 8.8% of T, Northeast Italy has 4.5% of T.
or
do you mean T of MtDna?
And how do you know?
Do we have any samples from Neolithic period that proves that.
I think myself T is Neolithic but certainly that's not the case of L.
 
T is found as far away as siberia to india to ireland to morocco to south africa to arabia ..........it is purely only a hunter gatherer marker and not a farming marker like G.

In Greeks its referred by genetic scholars as a "mixed greek" term/people........doric mixing with ionian and minoan


BTW...is it not amazing that I am T and yet all tests say I am 100% european. the tests go back as far as 2500 years from what I was told. It means I could have arrived with the late bronze-age migrations from western asia/steppes
Obviously you'll come out 100% European cause Autosomals and Y-DNa are different things.
 
If you would care to explain your insinuation, then perhaps I can comment on that. In any case, haplogroup L2 is detected in many places in Southern Europe. What does this have to do with the Persians? Don't think Northern Italians which have 4.5% of L2 are descendants of Persians (Iranians have very little L2 btw). But the very low frequenty of L2 in Greeks could come -in part- from Venetians or perhaps from Romans, Armenians or Greek Pontians who lived in the Caucasus for millenia. Then again, it's also detectable in Calabria so it could have been present in Greece in low quantities since ancient times. At least in some localities.

Altogether 1.1% of L2 in Greeks is not as puzzling to me as reasonable quantities of J1 in Albanians and Bosniacs.

But it's a good thing you bring up haplogroup T which is detectable all over Europe. According to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T_(Y-DNA)

Albanians South of the Drin river have 3.3% of T. Close (perhaps slightly less) to the mainland Greek standards. What strikes me is that T is not detected in Kosovars and North Albanians (Gheghs).

Where does T in South Albanians come from and why is it not present in North Albanians/Kosovars?

T in greeks was mostly restricted to the island chios and crete has it ( ionions and minoans ), corfu had it as well, but then that could be venetian
 
And how do you know?
Do we have any samples from Neolithic period that proves that.
I think myself T is Neolithic but certainly that's not the case of L.

T and L both came out of K
and K is still being found in tosks of albania ....indicating a central asian homeland
 
Too bad there aren't Greeks here:

HAPLO3.jpg

K as you see is absent in Kosovar Albanian and if i'm not wrong only Ferri found 3.31% of K in Tosks.
 
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I gave you data and real scientific studies showing that greeks are not native of greece and you called them childish without giving any reasoning. I could start a discussion as to E V-13 being native to albanians but you probably will twist that too into some form of political discussion, so if you don't provide any scientific sources or data, there is no really point in talking to you.

You can't

I challenge you,


show me and the rest in the forum that is native in Albanians?

go ahead, be a gennetist, tell us, you say political discussion,
ok tell us a scientific evidence that E is Albanian autochthonus, and all is genetical identification of Albanians.
Go ahead,

I am not thretened, if you could then why you don't do it?

if you believe that Albanian language is IE how you connected with E? on the other hand you tell us what now?
that Europe was populated and is the homeland of humanity?

sory but i think you speak more political with strange use of numbers,

just for your information,
how much time needed J2 to show a mutation in Crete?
to have a mutation how many generations and how many people of the same HG needed?

for your information the mutation in Crete means J2a EXISTED IN CRETE AND SOUROUNDS AREAS FOR MILLENIUMS AND HAS BIGGER NUMBERS THAN THE ONES YOU DESCRIBE.

you are another Zeus10 who just want to create impressions


Look guys no matter you use Canadian Finland flags you can not hide,
cause for 40 years you repeat the same ignoring all academics.
you just create impressions, from 1973 when H.K. created you and found A.K. to start.

nothing new, just the same,
 
Too bad there aren't Greeks here:

View attachment 5773

K as you see is absent in Kosovar Albanian and if i'm not wrong only Ferri found 3.31% of K in Tosks.

Indeed, too bad, cause Tosks in autosomal are closiest to Greeks, E poplulation might not have K cause they are not IE speakers (IEuropeans) indicating a possible non Asian homeland but an african one or a levantine one,

yet you did not tell us which T subcalde, the Ethiopean one, go ahead give the origin of T?

I am tired of you guys, 40 years the same tricks,
 
You can't

I challenge you,


show me and the rest in the forum that is native in Albanians?

go ahead, be a gennetist, tell us, you say political discussion,
ok tell us a scientific evidence that E is Albanian autochthonus, and all is genetical identification of Albanians.
Go ahead,

I am not thretened, if you could then why you don't do it?

if you believe that Albanian language is IE how you connected with E? on the other hand you tell us what now?
that Europe was populated and is the homeland of humanity?

sory but i think you speak more political with strange use of numbers,

just for your information,
how much time needed J2 to show a mutation in Crete?
to have a mutation how many generations and how many people of the same HG needed?

for your information the mutation in Crete means J2a EXISTED IN CRETE AND SOUROUNDS AREAS FOR MILLENIUMS AND HAS BIGGER NUMBERS THAN THE ONES YOU DESCRIBE.

you are another Zeus10 who just want to create impressions
-Look up e v-13, it has the highest density in albanian kosovars and it spreads from there throughout the balkans.
-e v-13 in the balkans is from the neolithic which means at least 10.000 yrs old, which is before the minoans and mychaneans, so before the greeks.
-The distribution of this hg in the area matches the distribution of albanians in the balkans, with mountaneous kosovo and north-east albania having the highest density, and lower areas where romans, greeks, slavs, and turks could get, having lower density.

-Mountanous north-east albania has always been autonomous during various occupations because of the shear difficulty of foreign armies to get to it.
 

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