Is there any difference between Kosovo Albanians and Albanians from Albania?

I came to the Bosnia/Herzegovina region of the Balkans via Anatolia.
I disagree strongly :)
I is from the Balkan(later I1 Scandinavia, I2a1 Sardinia, I2a2 Balkan(but maybe Central Europe)
J1 - Kavkaz
J2- Mesopotamia (J2b2 Balkan,J2a4b Kavkaz,J2a4h Iran)
E1b1b- Levant(E-V13 Balkan)
R1a- Central Asia(sublades later originate in Poland,Ukraine, Scandinavia)
N- East Asia- N1c( Baltic region)
R1b - Anatolia(sublades later originate in North West Europe, Iberia etc)
 
The bulk of R1b ( M343 ) can be seen on any map moving from Central Asia towards Western Europe. It borough with it to Western Europe u152, l21, s21, ( s21 and the sons of s116) etc. L23 separated from the bulk of m343 near the Pontic steppe and ended up in the Middle East and certain portions of Russia/Ukraine and some of it got from Middle East to Balkans Europe ( Bulgaria etc). L11, m412, m529 virtually every other r1b sub group of father M343 ended up in Europe or Western Europe via Central Asia. Other than m73 or l23, r1b did not enter Europe via Anatolia but by the central Asian grasslands highway with the m343. I is from Balkans, yes. It then migrated north to Scandinavia, we know. But it came to Balkans, at first, via Anatolia. I am not saying I is Anatolian, actually it sure is NOT. It is European, but it reached the Balkans ( from where it would spread in continental Europe causing gravettian culture) from Anatolia. I agree with all you say on I, it comes from Balkans, but arrived in Europe, from Anatolia. It is characteristically Balkan though, I2a in particular and I1a is Scandinavian, I get this, we both do.
 
What's the big deal if E-v13 is North African. It makes the carriers of E-V13 participants in every developed civilization. But the evidence is that the marker e-v13 originated in the Balkans, and as such it makes it European marker.
 
It is European for gods sake. It just arrived to Europe from north-east African migration to levant and then the Balkans. That's what E-M78 did. Some time after reaching the Balkans the E-V13 mutation took place.
 
some of your thoughts and number areincorrect,

for example R1b could be risen at roman empire from roman legions or roman colonists,
R1a is still strange for me, I don't believe that entered at Slavic migration cause that means that R1a slavicise all balkans so to become Greek? !!!!
Greece has more J2a than Albania which has more J2b
so it is the more details like DYS etc which can help realize.

the E hg is strange case since is connecting with Cyprus and Phoenicians and Kadmeians it seems that was a population entered at balkans from Greece but at archaic times another wave went to Albania which took mountains at Illyrian wars with rome,

the population you mention as 50% of Greece at 1820 is tottaly wrong,
Albanian population was limited where Latin rulers allow it around Athens Theba and some areas in Morea estimated about 150 000 at 1991 from which about 1/3 are Aromani from Albania (Latin speakers-Vlachs) (every ten years population statistics),
especially Northen Greece was not speaking Albanian but Slavomakedonian as third language after Greek and Turkish, Albanians in North Greece lived in the same villages with Turks almost sharing same temples and serve as soldiers of Ottomans. the fights among Greeks and Albanians in North Greece are mention even today, especially in the mountains.
Greek colonisation in Albania is ancient and from history we learn that unite with Illyrians to the mountains so it is difficult to distinguish which is who since same population that colonise until Durress and Lissos. almost the same population return after the liberty of Greece from Ottomans.

a good example to understand 1821 is to find the story of 2 man, Ανδρουτσος and Διακος, Andruzzo (Italian name) Diakos, who grow them up, who was their stepfather and who learn them to fight.

I have to disagree.

Albanians did not cooperate with Ottomans. Many of them were converted but some of the greatest Albanian warriors who were muslims were AGAINST ottomans. for example Azem Galica. The Serbs and Greeks were on the same team as Ottomans. they even killed Albanian politicians with the support of the Ottomans. because Albanians were very rebelious and going against Ottomans all the time..... the Albanian you are talking about was a guy working for the Ottomans, Ali Pasha. He wasn't fighting for Albanian idependence from Ottoman empire, he was fighting also against Albanians in south albania. He was an OTTOMAN. But you call him Albanian? Yes his origin was Albanian? but he wasn't fighting for an Albanian cause, he was pro-ottoman. the Albanian cause: see: Albanian national awakening' came later. But what about all the greeks that also worked for Ottomans? What about Murad II ?? Why do greeks call all their muslim population turks when they are not turks but greeks? Some of the first Ottoman servants were greeks. Serbs and Greeks are very good at hiding their collaboration with Ottoman forces and blame it on Albanians. what about your population exchange with Turkey? Atleast Albanians are not trying to hide anything. Albanians were under Ottomans but there was a period called ''Albanian national awakening'' when Albanians started rebelling against Ottomans again and fight for independence, it happened around 19th century - early 20th century. At this point in time you had Serbs working together with Ottomans to stop Albanians because they were promised Kosovo and other lands by the Ottomans.
 
I have to disagree.

Albanians did not cooperate with Ottomans. Many of them were converted but some of the greatest Albanian warriors who were muslims were AGAINST ottomans. for example Azem Galica. The Serbs and Greeks were on the same team as Ottomans. they even killed Albanian politicians with the support of the Ottomans. because Albanians were very rebelious and going against Ottomans all the time..... the Albanian you are talking about was a guy working for the Ottomans, Ali Pasha. He wasn't fighting for Albanian idependence from Ottoman empire, he was fighting also against Albanians in south albania. He was an OTTOMAN. But you call him Albanian? Yes his origin was Albanian? but he wasn't fighting for an Albanian cause, he was pro-ottoman. the Albanian cause: see: Albanian national awakening' came later. But what about all the greeks that also worked for Ottomans? What about Murad II ?? Why do greeks call all their muslim population turks when they are not turks but greeks? Some of the first Ottoman servants were greeks. Serbs and Greeks are very good at hiding their collaboration with Ottoman forces and blame it on Albanians. what about your population exchange with Turkey? Atleast Albanians are not trying to hide anything. Albanians were under Ottomans but there was a period called ''Albanian national awakening'' when Albanians started rebelling against Ottomans again and fight for independence, it happened around 19th century - early 20th century. At this point in time you had Serbs working together with Ottomans to stop Albanians because they were promised Kosovo and other lands by the Ottomans.

your imagination is big,

remember Ismael Vlore and the demand by some in Constantinople to name Albania as West Turkey,
also remember the Greek Revolt, who served Ottomans?
just read the story of Messologgi.
inside 1500 Arvanites and 7000 Greeks (children and women included)
outside 10000 Albanians soldiers at the command of Ottomans.
and also in 1912 in Makedonian struggle? why 90% of Turkish army were Albanians?
Arnauts were the main bone structure of Ottomans army West of modern Thrace,
from AustroHungarian borders Croatia to some times even Egypt, cause even in Egypt they served as Ottoman's army
only in my place Turks build a monsk and a school for Albanian military officer kids.

Pomaks of Rodopi also converted to Islam, but did not serve Turkish/Ottoman army.
 
why would an Albanian orthodox or catholic cooperate with the Ottomans? They were all on the Greek side when you got your indipendence.
 
your imagination is big,

remember Ismael Vlore and the demand by some in Constantinople to name Albania as West Turkey,
also remember the Greek Revolt, who served Ottomans?
just read the story of Messologgi.
inside 1500 Arvanites and 7000 Greeks (children and women included)
outside 10000 Albanians soldiers at the command of Ottomans.
and also in 1912 in Makedonian struggle? why 90% of Turkish army were Albanians?
Arnauts were the main bone structure of Ottomans army West of modern Thrace,
from AustroHungarian borders Croatia to some times even Egypt, cause even in Egypt they served as Ottoman's army
only in my place Turks build a monsk and a school for Albanian military officer kids.

Pomaks of Rodopi also converted to Islam, but did not serve Turkish/Ottoman army.

Why are you mixing up things here? Arvanites was greek word to refer to Albanians, it was Albanian Christians. Souliotes = Albanian orthodox Christians. the turkish word for Albanian is Arnavut. very similar. the arvanite call themselves Arbereshe... and there are also Arbereshe in Italy, the italians call them Albanesi which means 'Albanian' . Some of the biggest Albanian nationalists have been Arbereshe, and they were a part of the Albanian national awakening. there is a very good job done by greeks and serbs on the internet to claim the opposite.

now you may take it as you want it. the ''ALBANIANS'' that were fighting against them were Pro Ottomans, just like many greeks that were Ottomans. or have you forgotten?... it's funny how you call the Greeks that were pro ottomans as turks, but the Albanians that were pro Ottomans are ALBANIANS? and for this it's to be blamed on all Albanians? like they didn't terrorize other albanians? it's like many Norwegians were on the nazi side, but many were against.

You're wrong. The first to collaborate with Ottomans were Greeks, after constantinople. the early Ottoman army was actually Greek Ottomans. then later came Albanians, Serbs, Bosnians.

if Albanians were so pro-ottoman, why did they revolt against them even after Skanderbegs death??


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Revolt_of_1910
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Revolts_of_1833–1839
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Revolt_of_1912

Because some Albanians went on Ottoman side? you insist they spoke on behalf of every albanian? you think Ali Pasha tepelena spoke on behalf of all Albanians? he was an Ottoman servant....EVERY nation had people that went on Ottoman side, greeks, serbs, bosnians etc. at the same time you had people that were against them.

If Albanians wanted to name Albania west turkey, why the hell were they fighting for independence from Ottomans? Why were they fighting to unite Kosovo with Albania? but Ottoman forces wanted to put a stop on Albanian revolts, so they cooperated with Serbs and had many Albanians that were for independence, killed. for example Mother Theresa's father was poisoned by Serbs. Why they kill Haxhi Zeka?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haxhi_Zeka

if you're going to say that Albanians that were pro-ottoman represented Albanians, don't forget the pro Ottoman greeks too, ok? Greeks have done a very good job on hiding their muslim population, even going as far as to deport them. Just because you're a muslim doesn't mean you're a turk or pro Ottoman either. People converted to not pay taxes, after generations it became their religion, does that mean they want their own country conquered by others? Unless you see religion first, and nation 2nd... This is the difference between you greeks and us. for you, religion comes first. that's why you do population exchanges. the greek nation is based on greek orthodoxy

and west turkey? Why would somebody fight for independence and then name it after the enemies country? talk about contradicting yourself.

You mean Ismail Qemail? he never said that.


What you greeks and serbs don't understand is that you can't teach us our history, there was a time in Albanian history called ''Albanian national awakening'' it was the time when it was Albanians forgetting their religions and unite and fight for their country and people FIRST, religion came 2nd. after skanderbegs death, albanians tried to fight, managed to for a time, but lost in the end again... this was a fight against the biggest and most powerful army in the world, most of the time we were outnumbered.. yet there are places were Ottomans never managed to step in, a battle in malesia, 3,000 albanians lead by a WOMAN, against 30,000 Ottomans, a battle which Ottomans lost....after Skanderbegs death, hundreds of years went by until Albanians started to WAKE UP AGAIN. see: Albanian national awakening. The Albanians that liberated greece were orthodox christians. they put religion first.. that's why im saying the greek nation is based on orthodoxy, so many other ethnicities have easily asimilated into the greek population just because of sharing the same religion. the greek nation is the opposite of turkey, who are united under islam, even though the genepool consists of many ethnicities. Turkey was founded by Qemal attaturk, they didn't want anything to do with the Ottoman empire either.

Because Ottomans had many Albanian warriors these represent all Albanians? So Quisling represented all Norwegians? I know some of the greatest Ottoman warriors were Albanians... despite the fact that there were just as many Serbs, Bosnians and Greeks in the Ottoman army. Some of the greatest warriors fighting against Ottomans were also Albanians.
 
why would an Albanian orthodox or catholic cooperate with the Ottomans? They were all on the Greek side when you got your indipendence.


wrong.

read Greek revolt history,

especially Mesologgi Μεσολογκι massacre
 
Why are you mixing up things here? Arvanites was greek word to refer to Albanians, it was Albanian Christians. Souliotes = Albanian orthodox Christians. the turkish word for Albanian is Arnavut. very similar. the arvanite call themselves Arbereshe... and there are also Arbereshe in Italy, the italians call them Albanesi which means 'Albanian' . Some of the biggest Albanian nationalists have been Arbereshe, and they were a part of the Albanian national awakening. there is a very good job done by greeks and serbs on the internet to claim the opposite.

now you may take it as you want it. the ''ALBANIANS'' that were fighting against them were Pro Ottomans, just like many greeks that were Ottomans. or have you forgotten?... it's funny how you call the Greeks that were pro ottomans as turks, but the Albanians that were pro Ottomans are ALBANIANS? and for this it's to be blamed on all Albanians? like they didn't terrorize other albanians? it's like many Norwegians were on the nazi side, but many were against.

You're wrong. The first to collaborate with Ottomans were Greeks, after constantinople. the early Ottoman army was actually Greek Ottomans. then later came Albanians, Serbs, Bosnians.

if Albanians were so pro-ottoman, why did they revolt against them even after Skanderbegs death??


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Revolt_of_1910
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Revolts_of_1833–1839
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Revolt_of_1912

Because some Albanians went on Ottoman side? you insist they spoke on behalf of every albanian? you think Ali Pasha tepelena spoke on behalf of all Albanians? he was an Ottoman servant....EVERY nation had people that went on Ottoman side, greeks, serbs, bosnians etc. at the same time you had people that were against them.

If Albanians wanted to name Albania west turkey, why the hell were they fighting for independence from Ottomans? Why were they fighting to unite Kosovo with Albania? but Ottoman forces wanted to put a stop on Albanian revolts, so they cooperated with Serbs and had many Albanians that were for independence, killed. for example Mother Theresa's father was poisoned by Serbs. Why they kill Haxhi Zeka?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haxhi_Zeka

if you're going to say that Albanians that were pro-ottoman represented Albanians, don't forget the pro Ottoman greeks too, ok? Greeks have done a very good job on hiding their muslim population, even going as far as to deport them. Just because you're a muslim doesn't mean you're a turk or pro Ottoman either. People converted to not pay taxes, after generations it became their religion, does that mean they want their own country conquered by others? Unless you see religion first, and nation 2nd... This is the difference between you greeks and us. for you, religion comes first. that's why you do population exchanges. the greek nation is based on greek orthodoxy

and west turkey? Why would somebody fight for independence and then name it after the enemies country? talk about contradicting yourself.

You mean Ismail Qemail? he never said that.


What you greeks and serbs don't understand is that you can't teach us our history, there was a time in Albanian history called ''Albanian national awakening'' it was the time when it was Albanians forgetting their religions and unite and fight for their country and people FIRST, religion came 2nd. after skanderbegs death, albanians tried to fight, managed to for a time, but lost in the end again... this was a fight against the biggest and most powerful army in the world, most of the time we were outnumbered.. yet there are places were Ottomans never managed to step in, a battle in malesia, 3,000 albanians lead by a WOMAN, against 30,000 Ottomans, a battle which Ottomans lost....after Skanderbegs death, hundreds of years went by until Albanians started to WAKE UP AGAIN. see: Albanian national awakening. The Albanians that liberated greece were orthodox christians. they put religion first.. that's why im saying the greek nation is based on orthodoxy, so many other ethnicities have easily asimilated into the greek population just because of sharing the same religion. the greek nation is the opposite of turkey, who are united under islam, even though the genepool consists of many ethnicities. Turkey was founded by Qemal attaturk, they didn't want anything to do with the Ottoman empire either.

Because Ottomans had many Albanian warriors these represent all Albanians? So Quisling represented all Norwegians? I know some of the greatest Ottoman warriors were Albanians... despite the fact that there were just as many Serbs, Bosnians and Greeks in the Ottoman army. Some of the greatest warriors fighting against Ottomans were also Albanians.

the story gives Muslimization and Turkization of population after Crusades and Mazikert battle,
until that day the areas that cinsidered Greek were strong cores,
muslimization in Balkans starts centuries after Adrianoupolis (Edirne) mainly the times Pomaks start to convert.
until 1460 we see no convert to Islam from other populations,
after that started a massive convert,
remember Vallavan Pasha was Muslim, and in the Suleiman campaign to Austria the composition of Ottomans army,
about Greek revolt
except Messologgi, read also the 'roast' of Αθασιος Διακος.

Now about Arberesh,
until 1939 was Piana del Greci, Musolini changed it in order to political connect with Albania.

Kangoure Arbanites are modern Greeks from an Albanian origin of 1200.
Souliotes were a mix of Arbanites, Serbs, Greeks, Aromani, that created a kind of military democracy/oligarchy (patrias)
SOULIOTES WERE NOT ALBANIANS, WERE A CONFEDERATION of ARBANITES, SERBS, GREEKS, AROMANI-VLACHS.
SOULIOTES WERE SLAIN BY ALBANIANS.

in messologgi, inside and outside and all letters/information and treaty proposals were in Albanian, cause inside were some Suliotes and Arbanites, and outside Arnauts under Turkish command.

in 1912 the borders among Turkey and Greece was at Olymp mountain.
search why there is an Albanian tekke, and an Albanian school (Turkish language) in Katerini in a land that never Albanians resident.

and better ask your shelve, who fought in Mpizani, and why Ismael Vlore almost broke with Kemal Attaturk about that,
Kemal wanted the arc Edirne-Pomaks-Goranje-Kossovo Albania, and only after pressure from Austrians/Italians Albania took that name in pappers, cause it was to be Western Turkey.
all is written in the newspapper that Vlore published that times.
 
Now, let's find some commonalities and positive sides in Greeks and Albanians, just to see if it is possible to live side by side in peace.
 
the story gives Muslimization and Turkization of population after Crusades and Mazikert battle,
until that day the areas that cinsidered Greek were strong cores,
muslimization in Balkans starts centuries after Adrianoupolis (Edirne) mainly the times Pomaks start to convert.
until 1460 we see no convert to Islam from other populations,
after that started a massive convert,
remember Vallavan Pasha was Muslim, and in the Suleiman campaign to Austria the composition of Ottomans army,
about Greek revolt
except Messologgi, read also the 'roast' of Αθασιος Διακος.

Now about Arberesh,
until 1939 was Piana del Greci, Musolini changed it in order to political connect with Albania.

Kangoure Arbanites are modern Greeks from an Albanian origin of 1200.
Souliotes were a mix of Arbanites, Serbs, Greeks, Aromani, that created a kind of military democracy/oligarchy (patrias)
SOULIOTES WERE NOT ALBANIANS, WERE A CONFEDERATION of ARBANITES, SERBS, GREEKS, AROMANI-VLACHS.
SOULIOTES WERE SLAIN BY ALBANIANS.

in messologgi, inside and outside and all letters/information and treaty proposals were in Albanian, cause inside were some Suliotes and Arbanites, and outside Arnauts under Turkish command.

in 1912 the borders among Turkey and Greece was at Olymp mountain.
search why there is an Albanian tekke, and an Albanian school (Turkish language) in Katerini in a land that never Albanians resident.

and better ask your shelve, who fought in Mpizani, and why Ismael Vlore almost broke with Kemal Attaturk about that,
Kemal wanted the arc Edirne-Pomaks-Goranje-Kossovo Albania, and only after pressure from Austrians/Italians Albania took that name in pappers, cause it was to be Western Turkey.
all is written in the newspapper that Vlore published that times.


It was called Piana dei Greci because of the Orthodox religion, but they spoke and speak the Langauge of the Gods ( Gjuhën e Zotave): Albanian!
 
Yes you can find a lot in common, and since the '90 (not to mention before) in Greece emigrated more than 500.000 Albanians.
 
It was called Piana dei Greci because of the Orthodox religion, but they spoke and speak the Langauge of the Gods ( Gjuhën e Zotave): Albanian!

Gods another who believes stupid propaganda, and never search good,

ARBERESH NEVER STEP IN ALBANIA,

THEY WERE IN South ITALY, THEY FOLLOWED MANIAKIS ARMY GENERAL, THEY MOVED SOUTH AND THEN WENT TO SICILY.

IN THEIR TRADITIONALS SONGS NO MENTION ABOUT ALBANIA. WHY? SEARCH GOOD.

Arberesh and Mianiakis are connected, search why. and leave stupidity that Albanians officers tell you.
 
Yes you can find a lot in common, and since the '90 (not to mention before) in Greece emigrated more than 500.000 Albanians.

nope,

1 500 000, but all work Illegal, and most return and renter and back and again etc,
only in Greek prisons are 60 000 and now with the new treaty and the effort of Albania to enter EU most will be transfered to Albania.

from the above 300 000 are Greeks and Aromani

search the data of FRONTEX
 
Yes you can find a lot in common, and since the '90 (not to mention before) in Greece emigrated more than 500.000 Albanians.

I am not sure how the fact that many Albanians migrated to Greece translates to Albanians and Greeks having a lot in common.

Albanian immigrants have not had an easy time in Greece (nor have they assimilated effortlessly) but things are getting better despite the recent anti-immigration sentiments.

All people in the Balkans share certain things in common due to the Ottoman Empire. Most of them however consider that period to be a black spot in an otherwise spotless/glorious/whatever history so they rarely focus on it (except to denounce it).

That's true in Greece at least.

Oh yeah btw, Yetos = typical Greek. Δεν έχεις βαρεθεί να προπαγανδίζεις;
 
Gods another who believes stupid propaganda, and never search good,

ARBERESH NEVER STEP IN ALBANIA,

THEY WERE IN South ITALY, THEY FOLLOWED MANIAKIS ARMY GENERAL, THEY MOVED SOUTH AND THEN WENT TO SICILY.

IN THEIR TRADITIONALS SONGS NO MENTION ABOUT ALBANIA. WHY? SEARCH GOOD.

Arberesh and Mianiakis are connected, search why. and leave stupidity that Albanians officers tell you.

You are INSANE! This is for sure. You are more indoctrinated than a islamic terrorist. How can someone deny FACTS, they escaped from the turks after the invasion of the Arbër Principates and after the death of our hero Gjergj Kastrioti Skënderbeu, the Atleta Christi. At that time we had two main religions, catholic in the north and orthodox in the south, and the fact that Arbëresh are Christians doesn't change the fact that they are Albanian and they still have preserved Albanian language, which is more archaic compared to modern Albanian and old traditions, costumes, music etc.
Aleksandër do you know what it means in Albanian? - a le si andra - is born like a dream
you are just another brainwashed Greek terrorist!
 
I am not sure how the fact that many Albanians migrated to Greece translates to Albanians and Greeks having a lot in common.

Albanian immigrants have not had an easy time in Greece (nor have they assimilated effortlessly) but things are getting better despite the recent anti-immigration sentiments.

All people in the Balkans share certain things in common due to the Ottoman Empire. Most of them however consider that period to be a black spot in an otherwise spotless/glorious/whatever history so they rarely focus on it (except to denounce it).

That's true in Greece at least.

Oh yeah btw, Yetos = typical Greek. Δεν έχεις βαρεθεί να προπαγανδίζεις;

Have you ever heard of Arvanites. They were Christian in south Albania that spoke Albanian, but the same as the Arbëresh fleed from the turks and settled in what is now Greek territory, as to that time there wweren't boundaries. The hellenisation of this people was very fast mostly because of the religion.
And of course we share a lot of things together, but I can't stand when nationalists like Yetos make so much propaganda.
 
nope,

1 500 000, but all work Illegal, and most return and renter and back and again etc,
only in Greek prisons are 60 000 and now with the new treaty and the effort of Albania to enter EU most will be transfered to Albania.

from the above 300 000 are Greeks and Aromani

search the data of FRONTEX


Yetos I am half Catholic and half Orthodox Albanian, and I consider myself half Illyrian and half Epirot!
 
It is all documented by the Albanian Catholic Priest and historian Marin Barleti in his book "The history of Gjergj Kastrioti" in 15th century.
 

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