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Thread: Kurdish yDNA from some participaters we have so far.

  1. #1
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.

    Kurdish yDNA from some participaters we have so far.



    An update was made. Now we got another individual who came out as R1a1a*

    1x E1b1b1c1a (Alevi Kurmanji from Turkey)
    1x G2a (Alevi Kurmanji from Turkey)
    2x J1 (Feyli, originally from Iran)
    1x J1c3 (Sorani from Iran)
    1x J2 (Kurmanji from Turkey)
    1x J2a3a (J2a1a at 23andme; J2a4a at ISOGG 2009; he is M47+, M322+)(Yezidi from Iraq)
    1x T (Sorani from Koysinjaq/Iraq)
    1x R2a (Sorani from Sulaymaniyah/Iraq)
    1x R1b1a2* (Kurmanji from Zakho/Iraq)
    1x R1b1b2a (Zaza from Turkey)
    1x R1b1 (P25+)(Kurmanji from Maras/Elbistan/Turkey)
    1x R1a1a (Z93+, L342+, L657-)(Sorani from Sulaymaniyah/Iraq)
    1x R1a1a (Z283+, subclade 3 only his paternal great-grandfather is Kurdish from Turkey)
    1x R1a1a (Alevi Zaza from Dersim/Turkey)
    1x R1a1a (Alevi Kurmanji from Dersim/Turkey)
    1x I2a2a* (old I2b1*) (Sorani from Sulaymaniyah/Iraq)
    1x I1 (probably Kurmanji from Jordan)

    in Percentages this makes

    22% R1a1a*
    17% R1b1*
    5.5% R2a
    11% J2*
    11% J1*
    5% J1c3*
    5.5% I2a2*
    5.5% I1*
    5.5% G2a*
    5.5% E1b1b*
    5.5% T



    some notes. The Kurd from Jordan was added by me from FTdna while I did not ad the other ones (I am talking about the two other J1 which are of non Kurdish origin as far as I know and feel connected to Kurds and sympathize with Kurdish government).

    I suppose that the two Feyli Kurds which belong to Haplogroup J1 are related because they speak the same dialect and both of them come from the same area in Kermanshah. So we could technically count them both as "one person".

    Now lets take out one of the Feyli examples. than we got.

    23.5% R1a1a*
    18% R1b1*
    6% R2a
    12% J2*
    6% J1*
    6% J1c3*
    6% I2a2*
    6% I1*
    6% G2a*
    6% E1b1b*
    6% T

    and now lets take out the I1, which I have added from FTdna, too.

    25% R1a1a*
    19% R1b1
    6% R2a
    12.5% J2*
    6% J1*
    6% J1c3*
    6% I2a2*
    6% G2a
    6% E1b1b*
    6% T




    Well in my opinion something between these three tables comes close to reality. Just that Haplogroup J1 is too frequent in the first table and in the second it is R1b which is a bit too frequent and I is a bit too low.

    So I think this percentages are most realistic when it comes to Kurds overall.

    20% R1a1a*
    17% R1b1*
    5% R2a
    13% J2*
    11% J1*
    13% I*
    7% G2a*
    7% E1b1b*
    5% T


    R1b1a2* (R1b1b2 based on 23andme; Kurmanji from Zakho):
    Although this individual did not get a more detailed analysis of his Y chromosome, we can say the following:
    His haplogroup is old, older than the European subclades of R1b. His subclade is very rare and it is the root for the European R1b.

    Note: The nomenclature is sometimes confusing, the most reliable source is ISOGG. 23andme tends to use the older nomenclature (in this case R1b1b2).

    However though the sample size is very low, it is surprising how close this percentages are to that here on Eupedia.

    http://kurdishdna.blogspot.de/
    Last edited by Alan; 21-05-12 at 13:35.

  2. #2
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Something about the Yezidi individual. Someone might expect his Haplogroup must be closer related to these in West Iran or Mesopotamia due their old Indo-European religion which derives from Mithraism but it seems his yDNA has more connection to Lebanon. And his yDNA is rare.

    So where in the world can we find the Y haplogroup of the Yezidi individual?
    Answer: Mostly in Lebanon.


    Zalloua et al., 2008 (M47+):
    Lebanese (140/916 = 15.3%; evenly distributed between Lebanese Druze, Muslims, and Christians)

    Regueiro et al., 2006 (M47+):
    Southern Iran (4/117 = 3.4%)

    Abu-Amero et al., 2009 (M47+):
    Saudi-Arabia (4/157 = 2.6%)

    Cinnioglu et al., 2004 (M47+):
    Turkey (6/523 = 1.1%)
    Regional subdivision based on Cinnioglu:
    a) Eastern Anatolia (Region 4): 2/82 = 2.4%
    b) Central Anatolia (Region 7): 1/90 = 1.1%
    c) Istanbul (Region 9): 3/81 = 3.7%

    Giacomo et al., 2004 (M47+):
    Syria (1/50 = 2%)
    Turkey (1/168 = 0.6%)

    Battaglia et al., 2009 (M47+):
    Georgia (1/66 = 1.5%)

    Cadenas et al., 2008 (M47+):
    Qatar (1/72 = 1.4%)
    UAE (3/164 = 1.8%)

    Arredi et al., 2004 (M47+):
    Tunisia (1/148 = 0.7%)

    In the J2 Middle East Project, there are 4 confirmed cases of M47+:
    M4272 Bin Eabood J2a4a
    E10798 K J2a4a
    169860 Saleh J2a4a
    M6737 Ben Ebrahim J2a4a


    In the Armenian DNA Project, there is one confirmed case of M47+:
    101499 Ohanes Chantikian, Van, Armenia J2a4a J-M47

  3. #3
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    ^^update now we got another individual who came out as R1a1a*
    It seems that R1a1a is very strong among Kurds.

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    Very nice Alan. Though it is unusal don't you think, since you would think R1a1a would be more common in East Kurdistan, rather than the North. I mean I would of thought J2 would of been more prevelant in Dersimi and Zazaki Kurds.
    Do you think N.Kurds having high percentenage of R1a1a is due to the Scythian influence?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by jjmuneer1 View Post
    Very nice Alan. Though it is unusal don't you think, since you would think R1a1a would be more common in East Kurdistan, rather than the North. I mean I would of thought J2 would of been more prevelant in Dersimi and Zazaki Kurds.
    Do you think N.Kurds having high percentenage of R1a1a is due to the Scythian influence?
    R1a* is almost evenly distributed in all of Kurdistan. Whole of Kurdistan was settled by Groups from the steppes (cimmerians, Scythians Alans etc.)
    Nothing unusual here, Northern Kurdistan was settled by many waves from the Steppes (Cimmerians, Scythians, Alans and not to forget the Mitanni). It is true that the high percentage of R1a* is due Scythian influence on the region. An indication for this is the z283 individual. This mutation is specific for the steppes. As far as I know the Iranic tribes (including Scythians) were largely z93 but z283 is specific Slavic. How is it possible that it is present among Kurds? Most probably Scythian tribes which lived in the steppes brought it together with z93. Another possibility is that the split of R1a into z93 and z283 took place in Kurdistan. However it is rather coincidence that all three individuals from iran came out as J1*, two individuals are probably related. J1 is very diverse in West Iran this is true but but other Haplogroups are more frequent.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    An indication for this is the z283 individual. This mutation is specific for the steppes. As far as I know the Iranic tribes (including Scythians) were largely z93 but z283 is specific Slavic. How is it possible that it is present among Kurds?
    Pls, could you specify whether this kurd is R1a-Z283*(xZ280,M458,Z284) or he is just tested only Z283 SNP and did not test downstream SNPs?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by GloomyGonzales View Post
    Pls, could you specify whether this kurd is R1a-Z283*(xZ280,M458,Z284) or he is just tested only Z283 SNP and did not test downstream SNPs?
    He is +z83

    Well I am not an expert the only informations I can give you about him are from the website.

    The second individual with paternal Kurdish ancestry and the Y chromosome haplogroup R1a1a is 214352 in the same project. He is definitely a very interesting case for Kurds as well as for the 'R1a1a and Subclades Y chromosome project' itself, since he belongs to a subclade (called subclade 3 in the project=R1a1a1g*) that was just recently discovered and that split from the most common European subclades in very ancient times. He is positive for Z283 and negative for all known underlying SNPs: Z283+ M417+ Z93- Z280- Pk5- P98- M64.2- M56- M458- M434- M334- M157.1- L260- L176.1- L175-.
    The individual that I described previously here turns out to be Z284-. So, he is still part of 'subclade 3'
    The next individual that I want to compare is 214352, he is being tested as Z283+ M417+ (Z93- Z280- Pk5- P98- M64.2- M56- M458- M434- M334- M157.1- L260- L176.1- L175- Z284-)

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IDMV1DtVld...1.49.28+AM.png


    Here, the STR results do not fit with the known SNP results. 214352 is sharing a relatively high similarity not only with other people that are Z283+ but also with some that are Z283- and/or are not even R1a. He belongs to the root of Z283+. We already know that his genetic results are special and intriguing.
    His subclade seem to be very old and "ancestral" to other z83.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Update

    So now we have a second Kurdish individual who has been confirmed to be R1a1a* z383

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Df27(Spain)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2(Prussia)

    Ethnic group
    Celto-Germanic, Latino(~6%)
    Country: USA - California



    why do kurds have so much I1 and I2a2 when in teh I2a1b map the kurds have 20% I2a1b that makes sense since teh Cimmerians who migrated to teh mid east 2,800ybp and spoke proto Kurdish lived around teh black sea which is where I2a1b is around 30% so i think the I1 and I2a2 is a mistake if it is true then u are saying teh Cimmerians and the sytheins and teh orignal Indo Iranien speakers where from central Europe probably around Germanyw hich does not really make any sense at all since their culture is traced back to central russia and ukriane

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
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    i think that T-M184 will rise to 10-15% the more samples are accumulated.

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