Pretani, what or who are they

[zanipolo]

Reading through Hg R1b1c it was said this line is the pretani people. On checking who they are, there seems no defenition on the word pretani,
some say, they are the Picts from france, some say it means painted people and others say it means anyone from the British isles.

Link below claims them as R1b1c people

http://puesoccurrences.com/2009/07/2...-in-the-blood/

anyone have any other knowledge

By others
In terms of the origin of the word Pict. I believe the early influential
Greek explorer Pytheas {320-380 BCE}, was the first to venture north to
Britain where he studied the production of tin in Cornwall.

He called the painted people he met in Greek- Prettanike. It was Diodorus,
{90-30 BCE}, another Greek, who later referred to our ancestors as being
from Pretannia 'land of the Pretani'. And later still it was the Romans who
latinised Pretani to Picti.


and linguistic peoplesay
Cruithne / Cruthin / Pretani, then
are they also definitely Picts?

The linguistic difference was:
Q-Celtic (now gaelic) Cruthin was the same as
P-Celtic (now Welsh) Prydyn = Pretani.

and
http://www.impalapublications.com/bl...n-Adamson.html

[MOESAN]

PRETANI has nothing to do with PICTI (no latinisation but a latin naming, surely exonyme) -
the CRUITHNI naming by the Goidels or Gaels of Ireland seams, associated with the apprently brittonic pronunciation PRETANI, doing an endonyme or at least a local exonyme of it -
the prevalent theory is that the name concerned in fine all the inhabitanst of the ancient Britannia, and that the Picts of the North was only a less "evolved" ("latenized"?) stratum of the same basic Celtic-pre-Celtic mix of populations, separated by an unprecise limit from they southern "cousins" -
difficult to know more as for I know no precise limit was ever ascribed to the bearers of the name PRETANI-
or some new facts???

[hope]

As I understand it, the word "Pretani" means "people of the shapes" or "designs" ( not tatoos I feel )
Where these people lived was called by some Greek writers "the islands of the Pretani". They have also been noted in Ireland as, Diodorus writes regarding "those of the Pretani who inhabit the Country called Iris (Ireland) (I have to say I have not found this naming of Ireland myself as of yet).
What these groups may have called themselves I don`t think we will know so only have this name based on the description of them.
Regarding Cruthin: Pretani is the Gallo-Brittanic equivalent of the Old Gaelic name Cruthin or Cruithni which is the yet older Q-Celtic Qreteni. ( I believe you know this anyway).
Interestingly, as late as AD784 the Ulster Annals records the death of Coisennech,King of the Iveagh Cruthin, "nepos predeni" (?) is noted.
It seems the first time the "Picts" are called such is in a Latin text of AD297. Perhaps the Picts were remnants of the old Pretani and moved further into North..this I don`t know.

[MOESAN]

As I understand it, the word "Pretani" means "people of the shapes" or "designs" ( not tatoos I feel )
Where these people lived was called by some Greek writers "the islands of the Pretani". They have also been noted in Ireland as, Diodorus writes regarding "those of the Pretani who inhabit the Country called Iris (Ireland) (I have to say I have not found this naming of Ireland myself as of yet).
What these groups may have called themselves I don`t think we will know so only have this name based on the description of them.
Regarding Cruthin: Pretani is the Gallo-Brittanic equivalent of the Old Gaelic name Cruthin or Cruithni which is the yet older Q-Celtic Qreteni. ( I believe you know this anyway).
Interestingly, as late as AD784 the Ulster Annals records the death of Coisennech,King of the Iveagh Cruthin, "nepos predani" is noted.
It seems the first time the "Picts" are called such is in a Latin text of AD297. Perhaps the Picts were remnants of the old Pretani and moved further into North..this I don`t know.

OK but just a point:
I never said that 'pretani' or 'qreteni' would have signified "people of the shapes" or "designs" because I don't know - It seams only it was maybe a general name for the first Celts in Brittain or the name of one ancient tribe extended after that to the whole peoples of Brittain living with the ancient modes...
an old language (non I-E) seams too having been spoken in North Scotland along with a brittonic one (this late one well attested in toponymy) - it is not sure at all the historic Picts have something to do with the speakers of this strange language we know apparently almost nothing precise about it - others here could maybe tell more than me ?

[hope]

OK but just a point:
I never said that 'pretani' or 'qreteni' would have signified "people of the shapes" or "designs" because I don't know - It seams only it was maybe a general name for the first Celts in Brittain or the name of one ancient tribe extended after that to the whole peoples of Brittain living with the ancient modes...
an old language (non I-E) seams too having been spoken in North Scotland along with a brittonic one (this late one well attested in toponymy) - it is not sure at all the historic Picts have something to do with the speakers of this strange language we know apparently almost nothing precise about it - others here could maybe tell more than me ?

Moesan I only wrote my own opinion, I have scant knowledge of linguistics so advocate nothing. :)

[hope]

an old language (non I-E) seams too having been spoken in North Scotland along with a brittonic one (this late one well attested in toponymy) - it is not sure at all the historic Picts have something to do with the speakers of this strange language we know apparently almost nothing precise about it -

What strange language is this Moesan? I only know some talked about Pictish language but thought that idea now dis- proven ?

[MOESAN]

Sorry, I took a "serial" style when speaking about "strange" language: I mean "unknown language for now" - I (and we?) know very few about it, I red only somewhere without I could check it that is was written in the ogamic language, for I know (believe?) -
the historical Picts spoke a brittonic language well attested in toponymy - my knowledge does not run farther, sorry...)

[hope]

Sorry, I took a "serial" style when speaking about "strange" language: I mean "unknown language for now" - I (and we?) know very few about it, I red only somewhere without I could check it that is was written in the ogamic language, for I know (believe?) -
the historical Picts spoke a brittonic language well attested in toponymy - my knowledge does not run farther, sorry...)

Oh ok , I have heard about this then. I thought maybe there was another new theory out there I had not heard about,that was my reason for asking.