Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Iron Age Bulgarian sample closely related to modern Sardinians

  1. #1
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveThree Friends5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Knovas's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-05-11
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,439
    Points
    6,120
    Level
    23
    Points: 6,120, Level: 23
    Level completed: 14%, Points required for next Level: 430
    Overall activity: 3.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1b1a

    Ethnic group
    Celtiberian / Catalan
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    4 out of 4 members found this post helpful.

    Iron Age Bulgarian sample closely related to modern Sardinians



    The ASHG 2012 abstracts are online, and Dienekes' summarizes the following:

    On the Sardinian ancestry of the Tyrolean Iceman confirms that modern Sardinians are most similar to both the Tyrolean Iceman and the Swedish Neolithic TRB individual (presumably Gok4). You can find my analysis of both in the archives of the blog. But, look here:
    Strikingly, an analysis including novel ancient DNA data from an early Iron Age individual from Bulgaria also shows the strongest affinity of this individual with modern-day Sardinians. Our results show that the Tyrolean Iceman was not a recent migrant from Sardinia, but rather that among contemporary Europeans, Sardinians represent the population most closely related to populations present in the Southern Alpine region around 5000 years ago. The genetic affinity of ancient DNA samples from distant parts of Europe with Sardinians also suggests that this genetic signature was much more widespread across Europe during the Bronze Age.
    As you may have guessed, I can't wait to get my hands on that Iron Age Thracian. His similarity with Sardinians is striking, because by the Iron Age, I would have thought that something akin to the modern genetic landscape would have begun to crystallize in Europe.

    http://dienekes.blogspot.com.es/2012...re-online.html

    This is really surprising if finally true, because it would mean that the West Asian related components we've seen in many admixture experiments are even more recent in Europe than expected. Moreover, maybe R1b has very little or nothing to do with it, which seemed very likely at first. Y-DNA J was probably the one mostly linked to the so called component according to this.

    We'll see if something new comes out confirming the info.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Wilhelm's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-09
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,635
    Points
    9,507
    Level
    29
    Points: 9,507, Level: 29
    Level completed: 27%, Points required for next Level: 443
    Overall activity: 19.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-S26
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1

    Ethnic group
    Celtiberians
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    Quite surprising and fascinating stuff, this opens new doors for investigation..that not only North Italy and the Alpine regions, but pretty much all of Southern Europe (') could have been reached by Sardinian-like peoples.

  3. #3
    Curious Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    11-08-12
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    1,072
    Points
    5,774
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,774, Level: 22
    Level completed: 45%, Points required for next Level: 276
    Overall activity: 99.1%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Not known - O3?
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Not known - M?

    Ethnic group
    Chinese
    Country: Canada-British Columbia



    I read somewhere that the Khazars, a turkic tribe controlled the area between the Caspian and the Black Seas fought off the Arabs and kept Christianity alive in Europe. They destroed the Bulgarian Empire west of them who had kept the Russians in Kiev. The Bugarians then had to move to the west of the Black Sea and another group split off to the north. The Khazars converted to Judaism but were destroyed by the Russians.

    http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com...w-world-order/

    khzar-empire.jpg
    738px-Chasaren.jpg

  4. #4
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Posts
    1,849
    Points
    12,876
    Level
    34
    Points: 12,876, Level: 34
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 474
    Overall activity: 35.0%


    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    The change from mycenean to archaic Greek

    from Q-Greek to P-Greek
    Happened at the beggining of iron age

  5. #5
    Curious Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    11-08-12
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    1,072
    Points
    5,774
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,774, Level: 22
    Level completed: 45%, Points required for next Level: 276
    Overall activity: 99.1%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Not known - O3?
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Not known - M?

    Ethnic group
    Chinese
    Country: Canada-British Columbia



    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Khazars, a turkic tribe between the Black and Caspian Seas drove off the Bulgarians just west of them. The Bulgarians split into two one going to the mouth of the Danube and the other north. It was the Bulgarians who kept the Russian at bay. When the Khazars moved them they were face to face with the Russians. The Khazars had kept the Arabs from expanding to Europe. Their war with the Arabs and Persians may have weakened them so the Russians destroyed them.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars

    738px-Chasaren.jpg
    Last edited by oriental; 08-09-12 at 20:52.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    14-10-11
    Posts
    783
    Points
    5,373
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,373, Level: 21
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 177
    Overall activity: 21.0%


    Ethnic group
    German
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    This is really surprising if finally true, because it would mean that the West Asian related components we've seen in many admixture experiments are even more recent in Europe than expected.
    Or maybe K12b is not that bad after all, since it shows in Sardinians and Ötzi 20% Caucasus admixture, which belongs to the West Asian components.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveThree Friends5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Knovas's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-05-11
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,439
    Points
    6,120
    Level
    23
    Points: 6,120, Level: 23
    Level completed: 14%, Points required for next Level: 430
    Overall activity: 3.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1b1a

    Ethnic group
    Celtiberian / Catalan
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    As I told many times, the mentioned experiment was the only one showing what you say, so I wouldn't bet for it. And no, it's not West Asian because the clusters overlap more than in other experiments.

    Check this out and you'll know what I mean: http://dienekes.blogspot.com.es/2012...-k12b-and.html

    Specially note the following:

    - Atlantic Med appears to be Caucasus + a slice of North European

    -
    Caucasus appears Atlantic Med + Gedrosia + slices of Northwest African and Southwest Asian

    So no, Caucasus is definetely far from being West Asian compared to other experiments. Or in other words, this is not a clear signal of something emanating from West Asia, but rather the Mediterranean.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    65
    Posts
    1,869
    Points
    10,665
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,665, Level: 31
    Level completed: 17%, Points required for next Level: 585
    Overall activity: 69.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    The change from mycenean to archaic Greek

    from Q-Greek to P-Greek
    Happened at the beggining of iron age
    I don't know what your are trying to say by that, but I link this linguistical change to a central european group (well armed elite) of I-Ean speakers at the same time you indicate, but without tie with a 'sardinian' component nor 'Bulgaria iron Age' - I suppose the 'sardinian' genetic component associated with Y-G2 and agriculture-herding (before BB yet were phenotipycal discoverings linking neolithic in Switzerland with Sardinia, as southern France); that suits veru well archeology findings - the bulk of this sard. component in Balkans was surely there before Iron Age and without too tight links with it -
    on an other hand, the shift Qw- >> P spite the modern way of seeing was not a coincidence among celtic, italic and greek languages, I 'm even sure of the contrary! When scholars keep without killing their "fathers" we 'll see better I bet...
    just a thought

  9. #9
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    65
    Posts
    1,869
    Points
    10,665
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,665, Level: 31
    Level completed: 17%, Points required for next Level: 585
    Overall activity: 69.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I add that as interesting as it is, this analysis concerns only ONE man and the Dieneke's assumption that all this could show a Iron Age very different in Bulgaria from present day DNA situation is without any foundation. Wait for more DNA samples concerning every period in every regions...

  10. #10
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    65
    Posts
    1,869
    Points
    10,665
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,665, Level: 31
    Level completed: 17%, Points required for next Level: 585
    Overall activity: 69.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    concerning autosomals, the problem for my poor "cabbage" is that we can assign a community or origin to two subpools of genes because of a geographical close repartition (neighboring) of density when they have NO phylogenetic links one together...

  11. #11
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveThree Friends5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Knovas's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-05-11
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,439
    Points
    6,120
    Level
    23
    Points: 6,120, Level: 23
    Level completed: 14%, Points required for next Level: 430
    Overall activity: 3.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1b1a

    Ethnic group
    Celtiberian / Catalan
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    Well, wait a second. Dienekes' also considered the following possibility to explain the similarity with modern Sardinians:

    We don't know what he lacked/had. Sardinians would still be the closest population if he e.g., had mostly "Med" ancestry with say, 10% North European or 10% West Asian, or even 10% of each.

    Let's see how many ancestral markers they genotyped and the results using different Calculators. The markers concerning the hunter gatherers are very low even to check the major components, but for Ötzi it's not bad. If we get similar results with more or less the same markers, I think it's not a miracle that the first individual we find there comes out Sardinian like. Indeed, it would probably mean something.

  12. #12
    Curious Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    11-08-12
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    1,072
    Points
    5,774
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,774, Level: 22
    Level completed: 45%, Points required for next Level: 276
    Overall activity: 99.1%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Not known - O3?
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Not known - M?

    Ethnic group
    Chinese
    Country: Canada-British Columbia



    Most of the problem with East European history is the lack of records. There is a website on Central Asia that provides some details on the steppe people which could shed light on it:

    http://www.allempires.com/article/in...y_central_asia

  13. #13
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registeredTagger Second Class10000 Experience PointsOverdrive

    Join Date
    07-11-12
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    2,020
    Points
    15,217
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,217, Level: 37
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 433
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a* (inferred)

    Country: Germany



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by oriental View Post
    Khazars, a turkic tribe between the Black and Caspian Seas drove off the Bulgarians just west of them. The Bulgarians split into two one going to the mouth of the Danube and the other north. It was the Bulgarians who kept the Russian at bay. When the Khazars moved them they were face to face with the Russians. The Khazars had kept the Arabs from expanding to Europe. Their war with the Arabs and Persians may have weakened them so the Russians destroyed them.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars

    738px-Chasaren.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by oriental View Post
    Most of the problem with East European history is the lack of records. There is a website on Central Asia that provides some details on the steppe people which could shed light on it:

    http://www.allempires.com/article/in...y_central_asia
    oriental, why do you keep posting this? It has nothing to do with the thread topic.

  14. #14
    Curious Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    11-08-12
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    1,072
    Points
    5,774
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,774, Level: 22
    Level completed: 45%, Points required for next Level: 276
    Overall activity: 99.1%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Not known - O3?
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Not known - M?

    Ethnic group
    Chinese
    Country: Canada-British Columbia



    The movement of Bulgarians is important so one can trace where their genes may have have been mixed. Knowing the general history of the steppe people helps in understanding what happened at the other end i.e. in the Black Sea area. There seem to be be a lot of heat regarding Greeks, Albanians, Serbs, Croats, Bulgarians, Macedonia, Bosnians, etc. I am confused too. Each accusing the other of having this or that gene and thus more entitled to their place in history. By showing most of the Indo-European Central Asians being pushed west could help help. There is so much discussion of Turkic blood who were probably Indo-European while it is the Mongols who are East Asian. But if you feel this off-topic feel free to erase them. I have no qualms about it. I don't have any strong bias except to help.
    Last edited by oriental; 17-09-12 at 20:56.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    14-10-11
    Posts
    783
    Points
    5,373
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,373, Level: 21
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 177
    Overall activity: 21.0%


    Ethnic group
    German
    Country: Germany



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    As I told many times, the mentioned experiment was the only one showing what you say, so I wouldn't bet for it. And no, it's not West Asian because the clusters overlap more than in other experiments.

    Check this out and you'll know what I mean: http://dienekes.blogspot.com.es/2012...-k12b-and.html

    Specially note the following:

    - Atlantic Med appears to be Caucasus + a slice of North European

    -
    Caucasus appears Atlantic Med + Gedrosia + slices of Northwest African and Southwest Asian

    So no, Caucasus is definetely far from being West Asian compared to other experiments. Or in other words, this is not a clear signal of something emanating from West Asia, but rather the Mediterranean.
    I'm not sure I understand your points correctly. Yet I'll try to reply reasonably:

    I was not claiming that Atlantic_Med is coming from West Asia. I actually believe it could be the other way around. Dienekes now has made yet more cross-admixture experiments, and he came up with a crude table which provides hints about how 'old' or 'basic' a component might be. According to this table, Atlantic_Med is much more genuine (rank 18) than Caucasus (rank 6). Contrary to Dienekes, it looks like the Caucasus is not really the "womb of nations", right? And you also cited that Atlantic_med could not be decomposed into that many sub-components further.

    BUT: Provided that Caucasus component really consists of 60% Atlantic_med, 33% Gedrosian, 5%Southwest_Asian and 3% Northwest_african, then 6% Gedrosian, 1% Southwest_asian and 0.7% Northwest_african neolithic influx would be sufficient to create 20% Caucasus admixture out of a sudden within a 100% Atlantic_med population like Sardinians for instance. Of course, I leave this hypothesis open for debate and objection.

    http://dienekes.blogspot.de/2012/09/...decad-k7b.html

  16. #16
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    zanipolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-11
    Location
    Eastern Australia
    Posts
    1,977
    Points
    9,037
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,037, Level: 28
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 313
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1 - L446
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H26a1

    Ethnic group
    Venet
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by ElHorsto View Post
    I'm not sure I understand your points correctly. Yet I'll try to reply reasonably:

    I was not claiming that Atlantic_Med is coming from West Asia. I actually believe it could be the other way around. Dienekes now has made yet more cross-admixture experiments, and he came up with a crude table which provides hints about how 'old' or 'basic' a component might be. According to this table, Atlantic_Med is much more genuine (rank 18) than Caucasus (rank 6). Contrary to Dienekes, it looks like the Caucasus is not really the "womb of nations", right? And you also cited that Atlantic_med could not be decomposed into that many sub-components further.

    BUT: Provided that Caucasus component really consists of 60% Atlantic_med, 33% Gedrosian, 5%Southwest_Asian and 3% Northwest_african, then 6% Gedrosian, 1% Southwest_asian and 0.7% Northwest_african neolithic influx would be sufficient to create 20% Caucasus admixture out of a sudden within a 100% Atlantic_med population like Sardinians for instance. Of course, I leave this hypothesis open for debate and objection.

    http://dienekes.blogspot.de/2012/09/...decad-k7b.html
    so, to explain , are we saying that this ancient bulgarian sample is not part of the bulgar people from northern causasus?

    In regards to the Dienekes chart below


    [1,] East_African_K12b 7
    [2,] African_K7b 7
    [3,] South_Asian_K7b 4
    [4,] Atlantic_Baltic_K7b 3
    [5,] East_Asian_K12b 0
    [6,] Caucasus_K12b 0
    [7,] Northwest_African_K12b -2
    [8,] East_Asian_K7b -2
    [9,] Siberian_K12b -3
    [10,] Southeast_Asian_K12b -4
    [11,] Gedrosia_K12b -4
    [12,] Siberian_K7b -4
    [13,] Southwest_Asian_K12b -5
    [14,] South_Asian_K12b -7
    [15,] North_European_K12b -7
    [16,] West_Asian_K7b -7
    [17,] Southern_K7b -8
    [18,] Atlantic_Med_K12b -8
    [19,] Sub_Saharan_K12b -19

    The higher the ranking, the older the group. This also makes sense to the "back to africa theory" which most agree on

    This was also sent by my 2 project managers for my K12b admixture
    # Population Percent
    1 Atlantic_Med 35.87
    2 North_European 28.04
    3 Caucasus 20.98
    4 Gedrosia 7.02
    5 Southwest_Asian 6.23
    6 Northwest_African 1.42
    7 South_Asian 0.33
    8 Sub_Saharan 0.1

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 N_Italian (Dodecad) 6.71
    2 O_Italian (Dodecad) 9.26
    3 North_Italian (HGDP) 9.88

    And they stated, exactly what you said.

    Could the sardinians be part of a very very old group that migrated to sardinia when the water levels where very low, similar time as when asians walked from malaysia through indonesia and to australia without getting their feet wet.
    Sardinian marker for G is G2a3a while Otzi is G2a4 ............which is older?

  17. #17
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    14-10-11
    Posts
    783
    Points
    5,373
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,373, Level: 21
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 177
    Overall activity: 21.0%


    Ethnic group
    German
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    so, to explain , are we saying that this ancient bulgarian sample is not part of the bulgar people from northern causasus?
    It is certainly not part of bulgar tribes, because bulgars arrived very late at 700 CE. If the sample is Thracian then it is from 1000 or 2000 BC. Bulgars represented a warrior elite who founded the bulgarian nation and state in 681 CE, hence the naming. It is similar to France, which preserved its name from the gemanic frankish rulers.
    It looks like bulgars did not contribute that much to the current bulgarian gene pool.

    In regards to the Dienekes chart below


    [1,] East_African_K12b 7
    [2,] African_K7b 7
    [3,] South_Asian_K7b 4
    [4,] Atlantic_Baltic_K7b 3
    [5,] East_Asian_K12b 0
    [6,] Caucasus_K12b 0
    [7,] Northwest_African_K12b -2
    [8,] East_Asian_K7b -2
    [9,] Siberian_K12b -3
    [10,] Southeast_Asian_K12b -4
    [11,] Gedrosia_K12b -4
    [12,] Siberian_K7b -4
    [13,] Southwest_Asian_K12b -5
    [14,] South_Asian_K12b -7
    [15,] North_European_K12b -7
    [16,] West_Asian_K7b -7
    [17,] Southern_K7b -8
    [18,] Atlantic_Med_K12b -8
    [19,] Sub_Saharan_K12b -19

    The higher the ranking, the older the group.
    Highest rank (newest) is
    [1,] East_African_K12b 7

    Lowest rank (oldest) is:
    [19,] Sub_Saharan_K12b -19

    This also makes sense to the "back to africa theory" which most agree on

    This was also sent by my 2 project managers for my K12b admixture
    # Population Percent
    1 Atlantic_Med 35.87
    2 North_European 28.04
    3 Caucasus 20.98
    4 Gedrosia 7.02
    5 Southwest_Asian 6.23
    6 Northwest_African 1.42
    7 South_Asian 0.33
    8 Sub_Saharan 0.1

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 N_Italian (Dodecad) 6.71
    2 O_Italian (Dodecad) 9.26
    3 North_Italian (HGDP) 9.88

    And they stated, exactly what you said.

    Could the sardinians be part of a very very old group that migrated to sardinia when the water levels where very low, similar time as when asians walked from malaysia through indonesia and to australia without getting their feet wet.
    Sardinian marker for G is G2a3a while Otzi is G2a4 ............which is older?
    Could be, but I'm not aware that the mediterranean sea was that low during the last 12 million years.
    I'd guess that Sardinians are mostly from paleolithic european stock plus neolithic invaders, but they populated the island later.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveThree Friends5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Knovas's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-05-11
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,439
    Points
    6,120
    Level
    23
    Points: 6,120, Level: 23
    Level completed: 14%, Points required for next Level: 430
    Overall activity: 3.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1b1a

    Ethnic group
    Celtiberian / Catalan
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    Good points Horsto. Regarding Sardinians, yes, it could be. According to all admixture tests I've seen so far, they are not as regular as Basques for instance, although I still think the figure it's quite high.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Wilhelm's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-09
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,635
    Points
    9,507
    Level
    29
    Points: 9,507, Level: 29
    Level completed: 27%, Points required for next Level: 443
    Overall activity: 19.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-S26
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1

    Ethnic group
    Celtiberians
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    Quote Originally Posted by ElHorsto View Post
    I'm not sure I understand your points correctly. Yet I'll try to reply reasonably:

    I was not claiming that Atlantic_Med is coming from West Asia. I actually believe it could be the other way around. Dienekes now has made yet more cross-admixture experiments, and he came up with a crude table which provides hints about how 'old' or 'basic' a component might be. According to this table, Atlantic_Med is much more genuine (rank 18) than Caucasus (rank 6). Contrary to Dienekes, it looks like the Caucasus is not really the "womb of nations", right? And you also cited that Atlantic_med could not be decomposed into that many sub-components further.

    BUT: Provided that Caucasus component really consists of 60% Atlantic_med, 33% Gedrosian, 5%Southwest_Asian and 3% Northwest_african, then 6% Gedrosian, 1% Southwest_asian and 0.7% Northwest_african neolithic influx would be sufficient to create 20% Caucasus admixture out of a sudden within a 100% Atlantic_med population like Sardinians for instance. Of course, I leave this hypothesis open for debate and objection.

    http://dienekes.blogspot.de/2012/09/...decad-k7b.html
    Nowehere it says that Caucasus are 60% Atlantic_med...The 12_Caucasus is made of West-Asian and some Southern, and the 7_West-Asian is made of the Gedrosia and Caucasus.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    14-10-11
    Posts
    783
    Points
    5,373
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,373, Level: 21
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 177
    Overall activity: 21.0%


    Ethnic group
    German
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    Nowehere it says that Caucasus are 60% Atlantic_med...The 12_Caucasus is made of West-Asian and some Southern, and the 7_West-Asian is made of the Gedrosia and Caucasus.
    The 60% come from the figure in Dienekes' previous article (thanks to Knovas for the link):

    http://dienekes.blogspot.com.es/2012...-k12b-and.html

    It is the first run of that kind. It analyzes K12b against K12b.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    20-12-10
    Posts
    100
    Points
    2,429
    Level
    13
    Points: 2,429, Level: 13
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 21
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by ElHorsto View Post
    Could be, but I'm not aware that the mediterranean sea was that low during the last 12 million years.
    I'd guess that Sardinians are mostly from paleolithic european stock plus neolithic invaders, but they populated the island later.

    the peak of the last ice age, about 18,000 years ago


    http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/topo/pi...eldrop110m.jpg

    http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/topo/globega2.html

Similar Threads

  1. Bronze and Iron Age mtDNA from Romania
    By Diurpaneus in forum Ancient DNA studies
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-07-12, 01:31
  2. Are the modern Poles related to the Sarmatians?
    By Goga in forum Y-DNA Haplogroups
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 19-04-12, 22:15
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-04-12, 18:48
  4. Using modern sequencing techniques to study ancient modern humans
    By Sprinkles in forum Ancient DNA studies
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-01-10, 17:07
  5. English and Germans (The most closely cousins)
    By motatalea in forum Y-DNA Haplogroups
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-06-09, 00:18

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •