Huns, were they turkic, asian or indo european ?

The use of mongol and its adjectival forms is racist as it implies violence while mongols are a minority its use is to classify a large part of the continent as violent. The early racial theorists were racists anyway and to use their language only creates racists thoughts and unnecessary conflict. Their theories led to eugenics and Hitler's killing of "sub-humans" such as Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, Russians and others. Hitler wanted to wipe out the Slavs as he considered them impure and to take over their land for an expanded Germany. Wow, this coming from Hg E Hitler.

Aren't you going too far condemning whole Hg E because of one or few bad apples? By this token we should be able to condemn them all once we have Hg list of all big murderers and psychopathic killers in recent history.
 
What does YDNA have to do with violence or any other psychological trait?
 
Mongolians are Hg C a very old ancient group and small and to tar Asia as mongol is racist as most are Hg O completely far from Hg C in terms of mutations. Hg C were violent Hg O were not.

you complain of racism when somebody uses the word mongoloid but then you label the whole hg C as violent !! You seem openly racist yourself.
 
The use of mongol and its adjectival forms is racist as it implies violence while mongols are a minority its use is to classify a large part of the continent as violent. The early racial theorists were racists anyway and to use their language only creates racists thoughts and unnecessary conflict. Their theories led to eugenics and Hitler's killing of "sub-humans" such as Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, Russians and others. Hitler wanted to wipe out the Slavs as he considered them impure and to take over their land for an expanded Germany. Wow, this coming from Hg E Hitler.

where have you picked these thoughts up?
words are words and only words - 'mongol' is an ethnic term, 'monogoloid' is a physical anthropological term , more or less vauable (it is a scientific debate, not a political or religious one) - the interest for "races" is not by need linked to 'racism' and 'racism' can have a lot of distinct definitions...with or without effective acts, with or without meaning of value levels.
..please do not mix everything - for I know, Hitler was not an anthropologist...
who is racist here? the one who links 'mongol' to violence??? was there a complete peaceful tribe at these times?
No offense.
 
Here is a nice compilation of Hunic history.

http://chronica.freebase.hu/huns/histwhitehuns.htm

More and more I can see that Huns were the continuation of Scythians Empire. It makes sense to assume that East Scythians looked more Mongoloid and West more Caucasoid.
They were all called Huns because they called their leaders Khan.
We could describe Huns, Khans, Khanats (kingdoms) as all people under Scythian cultural influence. All these people dressed the same, ride horses and shoot same bows, eat raw horse meet, etc, etc.
The Turks, Mongols, Bulgars, Magiars, Tatars, Khitai, Khazar, they were all Huns and most likely, at one point, belonging to Scythian Empire, till about 300 AD when global cooling (cooling after warm Roman period) dried the steppes and pushed them out in all directions (well, except North).
We can see similar situation in 12 hundreds BC, beginning of little ice age (after medieval warm period), when the rest of Huns, Mongols and Tatars where pushed out into China, Middle East and Europe, again.


These are Scythians of 4th century BC. The clothes and bows are exactly same used by Mongols 1,600 years later.
220px-Scythians_shooting_with_bows_Kertch_antique_Panticapeum_Ukrainia_4th_century_BCE.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Scythians_shooting_with_bows_Kertch_antique_Panticapeum_Ukrainia_4th_century_BCE.jpg
 
Here is a nice compilation of Hunic history.

http://chronica.freebase.hu/huns/histwhitehuns.htm

More and more I can see that Huns were the continuation of Scythians Empire. It makes sense to assume that East Scythians looked more Mongoloid and West more Caucasoid.
They were all called Huns because they called their leaders Khan.
We could describe Huns, Khans, Khanats (kingdoms) as all people under Scythian cultural influence. All these people dressed the same, ride horses and shoot same bows, eat raw horse meet, etc, etc.
The Turks, Mongols, Bulgars, Magiars, Tatars, Khitai, Khazar, they were all Huns and most likely, at one point, belonging to Scythian Empire, till about 300 AD when global cooling (cooling after warm Roman period) dried the steppes and pushed them out in all directions (well, except North).
We can see similar situation in 12 hundreds BC, beginning of little ice age (after medieval warm period), when the rest of Huns, Mongols and Tatars where pushed out into China, Middle East and Europe, again.


These are Scythians of 4th century BC. The clothes and bows are exactly same used by Mongols 1,600 years later.
220px-Scythians_shooting_with_bows_Kertch_antique_Panticapeum_Ukrainia_4th_century_BCE.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Scythians_shooting_with_bows_Kertch_antique_Panticapeum_Ukrainia_4th_century_BCE.jpg

This makes sense considering that Indo-Europeans were the first ones to live in the Eurasian steppes and the first to massively use horses for warfare. From their central location, they could have easily spread their technology, culture, dress, etc into all surrounding areas.
 
Even if it could seam simple to someones I agree with you for the whole -
I have poor knowledge about these periods in Asia but I think first Huns elite was of very eastern stock, partially accultured by Scythian Empire, a cultural melting pot?
 
Here is a nice compilation of Hunic history.

http://chronica.freebase.hu/huns/histwhitehuns.htm

More and more I can see that Huns were the continuation of Scythians Empire. It makes sense to assume that East Scythians looked more Mongoloid and West more Caucasoid.
They were all called Huns because they called their leaders Khan.
We could describe Huns, Khans, Khanats (kingdoms) as all people under Scythian cultural influence. All these people dressed the same, ride horses and shoot same bows, eat raw horse meet, etc, etc.
The Turks, Mongols, Bulgars, Magiars, Tatars, Khitai, Khazar, they were all Huns and most likely, at one point, belonging to Scythian Empire, till about 300 AD when global cooling (cooling after warm Roman period) dried the steppes and pushed them out in all directions (well, except North).
We can see similar situation in 12 hundreds BC, beginning of little ice age (after medieval warm period), when the rest of Huns, Mongols and Tatars where pushed out into China, Middle East and Europe, again.


These are Scythians of 4th century BC. The clothes and bows are exactly same used by Mongols 1,600 years later.
220px-Scythians_shooting_with_bows_Kertch_antique_Panticapeum_Ukrainia_4th_century_BCE.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Scythians_shooting_with_bows_Kertch_antique_Panticapeum_Ukrainia_4th_century_BCE.jpg

Scythians were,for sure, Iranian speakers.It is not questionable.
Due to their enormous territory, they could have some differences,linguistically and anthropological.
But they would remain Iranian speakers.
Scythian-Hun similarities involves :
-Eastern Scythian intrusive groups in the proto-Turkic territory
-Eastern Scythian trading routes/influence

As they expanded westward, the Huns might have absorbed some Scythian groups.
But that's a whole different thing.
This "hun=magyar=..." thing has an obvious purpose:continuity.
But the Turkic tribes history it's far more complex,with many historical gaps, a huge area,and distinct clans/elites always reconfigurating.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Asia_323bc.jpg



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massagetae



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pazyryk_burials

The "Mongoloid" traits aren't exclusively Turkic/Mongolian.
Here is a couple of Dacians:


http://statuidedaci.ro/images/statui/atena/atena3.jpg


ny2.jpg
 
Scythians were,for sure, Iranian speakers.It is not questionable.
Due to their enormous territory, they could have some differences,linguistically and anthropological.
But they would remain Iranian speakers.
Scythian-Hun similarities involves :
-Eastern Scythian intrusive groups in the proto-Turkic territory
-Eastern Scythian trading routes/influence

As they expanded westward, the Huns might have absorbed some Scythian groups.
But that's a whole different thing.
This "hun=magyar=..." thing has an obvious purpose:continuity.
But the Turkic tribes history it's far more complex,with many historical gaps, a huge area,and distinct clans/elites always reconfigurating.



The "Mongoloid" traits aren't exclusively Turkic/Mongolian.
Here is a couple of Dacians:

http://statuidedaci.ro/images/statui/newyork/ny3.jpg

http://statuidedaci.ro/images/statui/atena/atena3.jpg

I think Hun (han, chan) is more of kultural/way of life construct than just the language. The similarity of all the hunic tribes is that they all lived in steppe area from East Ukraine to Mongolia. They all dressed same, were pastorialists/nomads, rode horses and used same weapons. This is what works the best in steppe environment and was widely adopted by all ethnic groups.
I'm assuming that till 0 AD the Scathians were the dominant group in steppes for thousand of years or two, most likely leading prim and spreading their cultural advances to all steppe tribes. Later it obviously changed and more central and east Asiatic peoples exerted influence and pushed west, reaching Europe, like Turks, Tatars and finally Mongols.
Because of these huge cultural similarities of all steppe peoples, it is so hard to say who exactly where the Huns or Avars at the end of Roman Empire times.
 
Even if it could seam simple to someones I agree with you for the whole -
I have poor knowledge about these periods in Asia but I think first Huns elite was of very eastern stock, partially accultured by Scythian Empire, a cultural melting pot?
It seams to me that their past Budda religion, Turkic related language and Indian related R1a haplogroup ,en masse in Hungarian individuals ,strongly places them at the geographic location where Afganistan is today. So they are originally Asian stock now mixed with slavic and germanic blood.
 
Even if it could seam simple to someones I agree with you for the whole -
I have poor knowledge about these periods in Asia but I think first Huns elite was of very eastern stock, partially accultured by Scythian Empire, a cultural melting pot?
Remember! Some of the greatest Budda sculptures, now destroyed by Taliban are in Afganistan, So it seems that at some point in time they were there or in their vicinities. Keeping in mind that Afgans are not linguistically unified country, huns were one portion of this small nation. There is not another explanation for their Ugralic language which are located there, or for their Budda past. There were two cities Budda and Pest that when united formed todays Budapest. Budda was a commemaration of their religious hero. So any efort to portray todays Hungarians as indoeuropean is brutality against reality.
 
It seams to me that their past Budda religion, Turkic related language and Indian related R1a haplogroup ,en masse in Hungarian individuals ,strongly places them at the geographic location where Afganistan is today. So they are originally Asian stock now mixed with slavic and germanic blood.

sorry i suppose I was not precise enough in my post: when I say "east asian", I mean for an anthropological point of vew, a mongoloid type, not the types that domines today in N-India or N-Pakistan: Avar elite too was of at least 2 TWO mongolid subtypes! the far origin for Huns, according to what I red from scholars, was farther in East, closer to Mongoly and NC China

and do not confuse 'asian' (geographical or geographical described anthropological type) with ethnic terms as 'slavic' or 'germanic' or 'hunnic' - ethnically speaking, 'asian' covers a lot of diverse populations
 
sorry i suppose I was not precise enough in my post: when I say "east asian", I mean for an anthropological point of vew, a mongoloid type, not the types that domines today in N-India or N-Pakistan: Avar elite too was of at least 2 TWO mongolid subtypes! the far origin for Huns, according to what I red from scholars, was farther in East, closer to Mongoly and NC China

and do not confuse 'asian' (geographical or geographical described anthropological type) with ethnic terms as 'slavic' or 'germanic' or 'hunnic' - ethnically speaking, 'asian' covers a lot of diverse populations
If they were resembling todays Mongols, today's Hungarians would have looked partly the same since they have a Hun-ic past. So my view is that their look was mixed caucasian and mongolic, the same way Yzbekistan people look today They formed the core of Huns. As they moved through slavic territories they absorbed slavs which learned their language and the group become bigger. The haplogroup R1a in Hungarians is only for minor part Slav, the rest is their own.
 
If they were resembling todays Mongols, today's Hungarians would have looked partly the same since they have a Hun-ic past. So my view is that their look was mixed caucasian and mongolic, the same way Yzbekistan people look today They formed the core of Huns. As they moved through slavic territories they absorbed slavs which learned their language and the group become bigger. The haplogroup R1a in Hungarians is only for minor part Slav, the rest is their own.

I think you go very far when you affirm today Hungarians are a mix of Huns with other ethnies: their are the result of mixings bewteen diferent ehtnies, sure, but the Huns in their make-up represent a very very tiny part; th e magyaric language was send there long anough time after Huns times - nevertheless I agree with you that when arriving in Europe Huns were already a mix before the Hungarians rising in History -
and yes, R1a is maybe not only slavic (but I ignore the detailed R1a composition of Hungarians of today)
 
I think you go very far when you affirm today Hungarians are a mix of Huns with other ethnies: their are the result of mixings bewteen diferent ehtnies, sure, but the Huns in their make-up represent a very very tiny part; th e magyaric language was send there long anough time after Huns times - nevertheless I agree with you that when arriving in Europe Huns were already a mix before the Hungarians rising in History -
and yes, R1a is maybe not only slavic (but I ignore the detailed R1a composition of Hungarians of today)

I believe the more the huns advanced westward, the less asiatic % was in their contingent
 
The remands of Scythians and Sogdians which mixed and allied themselves with Mongols, and time after time absorbed more and more Mongols and their descends evolving to the first Turkic tribes.

So they were at the beginning mostly Scythian (Iranic) + Mongols and with time passing more and more shifting towards Mongol+Scythian hybrids.
 
Mongols appeared in Central Asia after Genghis Khan's conquest in about 1200 A.D. nearly a thousand years after the Huns appeared in Europe. Recent events always colour our views. The Huns were not Mongols. They were Siberian tribes mixed with Central Asians who were Iranic like the Thracians. Time scale is all wrong by 1,000 years or so in this discussion. The biased views of Romans or Byzantiums always protrayed the invaders in the worst possible light. Romans were no angels they enslaved everybody they conquered.
 
My view is that minority can not impose its language on majority. So in any country the language spoken is that of majority. Why should it be different with Hungarians? Its not that Hungarians had some kind of culture that others had to learn, and in doing so ,the others had to learn their language. Having said that, it means that the majority of Hungarians came from Asia which is the place where their language develeped. But coming from Asia it does'not mean that they were all Mongolians. They could have been looked like some other caucasian race( Pakistanis look caucasian for most part) with Mongolian intermixture. The fact that many hungarians today have generally european look it is from the germanic intermixture. Whoever understand genetics ( I don't myself) can tell us about the composition of their R1a haplogroup in Hungarians. Being R1a its not necessary slavic. Indians too are R1a. Its not the same case like Turkey where a mongolic language is spoken. A large part of Turkey's population are ballkan emigrants that came to Turkey after Mongolic otomans had conquered Anatolia, and forcefully imposing their language on indigenes populations. Bottom line, I can't see the indoeuropean side of Hungarians other than the asimilated Germans. How could be justified that a few Huns were the cause of today's Hungarian language? Hungarian has never been, it is not, and I don't see it for at least the next 5 million years as being a language of culture (the way greek or latin has been, or english is today). So why on earth an entire section of Europeans had to learn this language? The only explanation that makes sense is that the majority of todays Hungarians originate from Huns, that spoke Majarsky, and heavily mixed with germans, slavs and romanians.
 
My view is that minority can not impose its language on majority. So in any country the language spoken is that of majority. Why should it be different with Hungarians? Its not that Hungarians had some kind of culture that others had to learn, and in doing so ,the others had to learn their language. Having said that, it means that the majority of Hungarians came from Asia which is the place where their language develeped. But coming from Asia it does'not mean that they were all Mongolians. They could have been looked like some other caucasian race( Pakistanis look caucasian for most part) with Mongolian intermixture. The fact that many hungarians today have generally european look it is from the germanic intermixture. Whoever understand genetics ( I don't myself) can tell us about the composition of their R1a haplogroup in Hungarians. Being R1a its not necessary slavic. Indians too are R1a. Its not the same case like Turkey where a mongolic language is spoken. A large part of Turkey's population are ballkan emigrants that came to Turkey after Mongolic otomans had conquered Anatolia, and forcefully imposing their language on indigenes populations. Bottom line, I can't see the indoeuropean side of Hungarians other than the asimilated Germans. How could be justified that a few Huns were the cause of today's Hungarian language? Hungarian has never been, it is not, and I don't see it for at least the next 5 million years as being a language of culture (the way greek or latin has been, or english is today). So why on earth an entire section of Europeans had to learn this language? The only explanation that makes sense is that the majority of todays Hungarians originate from Huns, that spoke Majarsky, and heavily mixed with germans, slavs and romanians.
A couple points here id like to contest. Minority settlers can impose their cultural, linguistic and genetic traits upon majorities, even to the point that these new settlers, new culture overtakes the old majority culture. This can happen because of several factors, technology being the biggest reason for a cultural take over. This take over by small cultural minorities has happened countless times throughout history. Also, you seem to think that the Magyars and Huns are interchangable, this is not true, these are two different peoples and settled in Hungary at different points in time. The Magyars left the biggest impact on modern day Hungary, and most likley arrived circa 1000 YBP, their biggest impact on modern Hungary was their language, which is related to Finnish and is part of the Uralic language family. The Huns were a completely different people, although the term Hun is thought to be of other origins, ill call these Central Asian invaders Huns for convienence. These people invaded the hungarian plain at the fall of the Roman Empire, and their language is unknown to us, it was most likley a member of the Turkic language family. The largest impact of the Huns would have been leaving some minor cultural practices, but probably nothing of which sustained itself to our present day. But what you must understand is that only non Hungarians know it as Hungary, the citizens of Hungary call it Magyarorszag, after the Magyars. the reason we know it as Hungary is because this is what it was called after a medieval aliiance was formed, or this is what is thought.
 
My view is that minority can not impose its language on majority. So in any country the language spoken is that of majority. Why should it be different with Hungarians? Its not that Hungarians had some kind of culture that others had to learn, and in doing so ,the others had to learn their language. Having said that, it means that the majority of Hungarians came from Asia which is the place where their language develeped. But coming from Asia it does'not mean that they were all Mongolians. They could have been looked like some other caucasian race( Pakistanis look caucasian for most part) with Mongolian intermixture. The fact that many hungarians today have generally european look it is from the germanic intermixture. Whoever understand genetics ( I don't myself) can tell us about the composition of their R1a haplogroup in Hungarians. Being R1a its not necessary slavic. Indians too are R1a. Its not the same case like Turkey where a mongolic language is spoken. A large part of Turkey's population are ballkan emigrants that came to Turkey after Mongolic otomans had conquered Anatolia, and forcefully imposing their language on indigenes populations. Bottom line, I can't see the indoeuropean side of Hungarians other than the asimilated Germans. How could be justified that a few Huns were the cause of today's Hungarian language? Hungarian has never been, it is not, and I don't see it for at least the next 5 million years as being a language of culture (the way greek or latin has been, or english is today). So why on earth an entire section of Europeans had to learn this language? The only explanation that makes sense is that the majority of todays Hungarians originate from Huns, that spoke Majarsky, and heavily mixed with germans, slavs and romanians.

oh really?
what minor Asia, Egypt Syria after Alexander's campaign? were Greeks majority?
what about Ottomans? were Turks majority?
and what about Albania? Greece? etc? why still Turkish words are spoken?

are you tired of stupid, sterile propaganda?
 

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