Huns, were they turkic, asian or indo european ?

1) Varna (Karanovo VI) is Pre-Indo-European with extensive contacts to Kurgan I. Look it up.
2) dont get your problem concerning the Gedrosian component. It actually links Europe and Asia via Iranian Plateau just like the Indo-European migration and Hg R1a, R1b. Thats not a theory thats an observation.
3) Leyla-Teepe are you referring to the Maikop link? Again Maikop is Kurgan II-III, and in case you didnt notice im the dude that is in favour of the Continual Migrations/Waves.
4) Tocharian, i think you can figure that out on your own.

Dont really understand you problems, or why you think these prove a contradiction to the Urheimat-Kurgan complex. But than im not sure what your Historical understanding is.

And thanks for calling it my theory, i would love to have all the recognition and awards that went along to all the Scientists (Linguists/Anthropologists/Archaeologists/Historians) that established this complex.


main reasons
1) combination of Gedrosian with kurgans Maykop may give us a road that is conected with Indo-Hetit linguistic Theory,
2) Varna culture is important cause we find another road,
your theory uses the arsenic bronze road from maykop to Balkans (Georgia to Serbia/croatia) North black sea road,
but we also have another road, the road of Gold and burying ritual position of Varna, just add the the time of megalithic structures in Europe which are far ancient, so the knowledge enter Europe or exported Europe?
combining Varna with Rudna Glava we have a good explanation of Armenian theory, that brings IE to Balkans where diversities of R1 are good enough, (maybe due to sink phenomenon, but what if not?)
3) the Tocharian migration is mention in Ptolemy as the dream of Alexander, the campaign of Dionysus to far East. concerning that the first male-ruling society is Varna (all neolithic were matriarchical ruling) connected with Greco-Aryan theory can give explanations to many.

why?
cause road of Gold starts from Varna and we know that reach steppe before arsenic bronze,
cause the burial ritual of Varna is found millenium after when kurgans start.
cause Tocharians are the ones who made the Kurgans in Asia
cause the migration Gedrosian component pass from Leyla teppe, which is mother civilisation to Maykop

Maybe I am wrong, or misunderstand many, but my observations I believe have a point,
so the arsenic bronze steppe tribes, how sure you are expand IE language, or learn it before they spread it,
besides glottochronology gives either far old neolithic (maybe only G2a) origin of IE
either closer than arsenic bronze (after entrance in Europe.

so I agree with the times of migrations you gave,
as observations that can be used as basis/thesis to create a theory,
but i do not agree in the usage as determinate axioma,
cause as I wrote some other observations in the future maybe will have heavier influence.
Just imagine to find R1a in Varna necropolis simmilar to Tocharian,
or Gedrosian component before the arrival of the so called IEans.
 
I understand (i think) what you are saying but i dont really get the point/message.

All the Indo-European [Indo-Iranians/Indo-Aryans] have a common root [Linguistics] and a common homeland [Archaeology/(Anthropology)].
This Homeland [Urheimat] has been identified as the Caspian-Pontic steppes, based on the grounds of Archaeology of the Kurgan Culture Complex [ Kurgan I - Kurgan II - Kurgan III - Kurgan IV]. The exact expansions (Migrations-Invasions) of the Kurgan Indo-Europeans into Europe/Anatolia/Caucasus/Central Asia/Iranian Plateau/Indus valley has also been determined on the grounds of Archaeology-(Anthropology)/Linguistics and Historical Documentations.

Archeology

1.) Varna Culture

John Boardman - The Cambridge Ancient History - Vol.3 (1982)
Karanovo VI, which corresponds with the Romanian Gumelnita group, Karanovo VI has four phases. Phases I-II correspond with Gumelnija A1-A2 (including what is now called A3) according to the Romanian archaeologists. Phases III-IV correspond with Gumelnita B. In north-eastern Bulgaria this culture is known also as the Kodza Dermen group, and the culture of phase III along the Black Sea is classified as the Varna culture.
On the coast of the Black Sea the Varna group corresponds to Phase III of the Gumelnija-Kodza Dermen group; it is in fact the richest variant of the Gumelnita group.


David W. Anthony - The Horse, the Wheel, and Language (2010) [Princeton Uni.]
Between about 4200 and 3900 BCE more than six hundred tell settlements of the Gumelnita, Karanovo VI and varna cultures were burned and abandoned in the lower danube valley and eastern Bulgaria. Some of their residents dispersed temporarily into smaller villages like the Gumelnita B1 hamlet of Jilava, southwest of Bucharest, with just five to six houses and a single-level cultural deposit.
"We are faced with the complete replacement of a culture" the foremost expert on Eneolithic metallurgy E. N. Chernykh said. It was "a catastrophe of colossal scope...a complete cultural caesura" according to the Bulgarian archaeologist H. Todorova


British Institute of Archaeology at Ankara - Ancient Anatolia (1998)
increasing evidence for disastrous happenings in Romania and Bulgaria as barbarous, almost certainly Indo-European, peoples moved west massacring and causing panic. The Gumelnitsa-Karanovo VI culture was destroyed.

Linguistic Association of Canada and the United States - The 15th LACUS Forum (1989)
The technology used by the early Indo-Europeans in the construction of fences, walls, or even dwellings must have been rooted in the Paleolithic. Indeed, the destruction of phase VI of the Karanovo site in Bulgaria by the first wave of the Eurasian steppe pastoralists reveals mud walled houses with a wattle core (Piggott 1965:46).

So, the Varna culture [Karanovo VI complex] was a Pre-Indo-European culture with extensive contact to the Kurgan steppe-complex, and with the first Kurgan expansion/migration/invasion completely destroyed.

2.) Metallurgy - Im not sure what Gold road from Varna into the Steppes, you mean.

Gold

Philip L. Kohl - The Making of Bronze Age Eurasia (2009)
The wealth of the metals – arsenical copper/bronzes and silver and gold artifacts - found in the maikop "royal" kurgans is truly extraordinary, leading Chernykh (1992: 142-144) to reflect on the "problem of Gold" at this time. Indeed, if we trace the occurence of gold in the area of our concern, we see a conspicious shift from north to south that continues through Middle Bronze times: the early Chalcolithic floresence of gold consumption in the balkans, paricularly in the varna cemetery; the abundance of gold (and silver) objects in the maikop kurgans of the northwestern Caucasus during the Early Bronze period; and the spectacular discoveries of precious gold and, to a lesser extent silver objects in the monumental early kurgans of Transcaucasia and the famous hoards of Anatolia during the late Early and Middle Bronze periods.

The emergence of Gold within the Kurgan steppe cultures only accured during the [Maikop Kurgan II-III] Bronze age (~300 years after Varna was overrun by Indo-Europeans from the steppes).

Copper

David W. Anthony - The Horse, the Wheel, and Language(2010) [Princeton Uni.]
Its beginning is set at about 5200-5000 BCE in Bulgaria, which was in many ways the heart and center of Old Europe. Pontic-Caspian steppe societies were pulled into the Old European copper-trade network at least as early as 4600 BCE.

3.) Leyla-Teppe

Leyla-Teppe [south caucasus] is just a pre-Indo-European culture, like Varna [europe]. The significance of Leyla-Teppe is the contact with the first wave of Indo-European into the Caucasus, which resulted into the Maikop culture. Thats prob. what you meant by Leyla-Teppe being the mother of Maikop and what i meant by Maikop link.

4.) Tocharians

The Tocharians were an Indo-European people.

E. Elena Efimovna Kuzmina - The Prehistory of the Silk Road (2008)
Research into Steppe contacts is also important for solving the question of the origin of the Tocharians. Linguists who have studied the Tocharian language and the Indo-European issue proved that the two varieties known as A and B belonged to the Indo-European family and established the early separation of the Proto-Tocharian language

Tocharians are mentioned by Apollodorus [100 BC] - Tocharians are Nomads and Invade Bactria
Tocharians are mentioned by Ptolemy [2nd cen AD] - Tocharian living in Bactria
Tocharians are mentioned by Justinus [3rd cen AD] - war with Parthians and killing King Artabanus II of Parthia [124 BC]

The Tocharian scripts of Turkestan are written in Indic script

Robert Stephen Paul Beekes - Comparative Indo-European Linguistics (2011)
Tocharian was only discovered in 1900 in the Chinese province of Xinjiang (formerly written Sinkiang). It largely consists of manuscripts written in an Indic script, with Buddhist texts translated from Sanskrit (Ill. 5).

How and when the Tocharians made it to Turkestan is not known.

In Total, i still dont get your view as to how Varna [pre-indo-european] leyla-teppe [pre-indo-european] and Gedrosian component [Europe-Asia via Iranian plateau] are supposed to contradict the well attested [Archaeology/Anthropology/Linguistic/History] Indo-European Kurgan Urheimat complex.
 
Last edited:
They assimilated all kinds of people on the way to Europe, including Germanic tribes in Eastern Europe.

Germanic tribes in Eastern Europe? In the centre of Scythia? When will you abort this German propaganda? Ostrogoths were not Germanic. They were even not Goths!
 
There are people in Afganistan blonde hair light color and tall seem like today`s Slavic or Finnish people.
 
... PIE mixed with lots of other races for many thousands of years before they became Iranic/Aryan. Aryans evolved differently from other proto-Indo-Europeans. So PIEans have nothing to do with later Aryans ....

Perhaps I'm just off on your semantics but what you said in quotes above seems like a bit of an oxymoron. I added the emphasis and underlining.

We might want to be a little more specific on the linguistics versus the people. Indo-Iranian languages are derived from the Proto-Indo-European base language. That is no guarantee that Proto-Indo-Iranian speakers have genes descended from elements of the earlier Proto-Indo-European speaking peoples. However, it would seem likely that since people are needed to pass the languages on there would be some remnants from the PIE speaking peoples found among the Proto-Indo-Iranian speakers.

I agree with you that certainly the gene pool was different in the Proto-Indo-Iranian speakers, but to say they have "nothing to do" with prior PIE peoples is something else.
 
Last edited:

This thread has been viewed 74466 times.

Back
Top