Pre Indo European languages in Europe

[ElHorsto]

interesting: if 'kûçik' can be broken as *kû-çik it shows a link with celtic singular cu/ci/ki >> plural cuin/cwn/kon

More possible cognate candidates from google:

Gujarati: kūtarō
Hindi: Kuttā
Telugu: Kukka

Bulgarian: kuče
Macedonian: kuče

Hungarian: kutya

Finnish: koira (?)
Bengali: Kukura(?)

 

[kesi]

More possible cognate candidates from google:

Gujarati: kūtarō
Hindi: Kuttā
Telugu: Kukka

Bulgarian: kuče
Macedonian: kuče

Hungarian: kutya

Finnish: koira (?)
Bengali: Kukura(?)

Albs also call "kuci" a dog when they want the dog to follow them, its more like slang , also bubi for puppies

 

[kamani]

Well you have the Armenian քար(k'ar), no big deal anyway.

There are scientists claiming that armenian has a caucasian substratum, so the trail is leading suspiciously back to the caucasian languages. Something slavic or germanic would be more convincing.
And nobody is saying that albanian is not IE, we're just saying small parts of it date before the Indo-Europeans came to the balkans, through linking it with basque and etruscan. This is nothing nationalistic or new, it's the pelazgo-illyrian theory that has been taught in albania for 50 yrs. Why should we deny evidence in our favor, to please our chauvinist neighbors.

 

[Kardu]

There are scientists claiming that armenian has a caucasian substratum, so the trail is leading suspiciously back to the caucasian languages. Something slavic or germanic would be more convincing.
And nobody is saying that albanian is not IE, we're just saying small parts of it date before the Indo-Europeans came to the balkans, through linking it with basque and etruscan. This is nothing nationalistic or new, it's the pelazgo-illyrian theory that has been taught in albania for 50 yrs. Why should we deny evidence in our favor, to please our chauvinist neighbors.

Modern Armenian does have a very strong Caucasian and Hurrian substratum, no doubt about that.

Archaic Armenian which was related to Phrygian must have been quite different. Even Classical Armenian (Grabar) is in-understandable to contemporary Armenian speakers.

 

[Pi gman]

Albs also call "kuci" a dog when they want the dog to follow them, its more like slang , also bubi for puppies

Yes, and in Turkish a dog is kopek!

Curtis Pigman French: Pigmon/Pimond and Greek Pygmon([FONT=&quot]n[/FONT][FONT=&quot]EI[/FONT][FONT=&quot]r[/FONT][FONT=&quot]MO)[/FONT]

 

[martinmkp]

El Horsto:
Schakal - is in Slovak and suppose in Czech the same - šakal. Although, I have no clue of its origin (which language group).

This discussion - I have thought that Albanian language is a part of Indo-European languages, or am I wrong?

 

[kamani]

This discussion - I have thought that Albanian language is a part of Indo-European languages, or am I wrong?

it is, the vast majority of words have cognates in latin, slavic, celtic, or germanic, but certain words match with basque or etruscan.

 

[MOESAN]

I might have found the historical connection between basque-etruscan-albanian. The key is "Cardium Pottery" neolithic culture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardium_Pottery
It certainly fits very well with the expansion of E-v13 and the R1b-269* (parent clade) through anatolia.

I was pushed to think that rather Y-G2 was the prevalent "bearer" of Cardium, maybe associated with Y-E1V13 and some others (coastal Y-I2a1a*6I2a1a and Y-J1/J2b ???)

 

[kamani]

I was pushed to think that rather Y-G2 was the prevalent "bearer" of Cardium, maybe associated with Y-E1V13 and some others (coastal Y-I2a1a*6I2a1a and Y-J1/J2b ???)

You're right about associating G2 with Cardium Pottery; there are studies saying it was significant in the etruscan population. I sticked R1b in there too because looking at its migration maps, it seems to have had a significant presence in the neolithic levant and arabia, from where Cardium Pottery launched. If that is true then we would get a neolithic non-IE R1b in europe to justify basques, etruscans etc. (just my vague theory thou, which could change if we get more studies)

 

[MOESAN]

apparently, neolithical advance in Central Europe (danubian, rubané) was quick enough and involved males and females, and males and females of more than an Y-HG (for mtDNA I'm too confused and bad informed to say anyothing more) even if Y-G2 there seemed very heavy - for Cardial, it could have been quick enough too, but maritime, with less new incorporated members and having involved rather males so if this males (and Y-R1b bearers are newly considered as rather a male elite too) were comrades to Y-R1b males, their distribution would have followed the Y-G distribution, it seems it is not the case, at a present day stage of studies - or just a very slight component (the R1b stayed at the L23 stage?) dissociated from the maybe more numerous group of Y-R1b that came after and colonized Western Europe? a very meticulous survey about Y-R1b in -Italy could inform us?...

 

[Rainbow Warrior]

well researched