Harvard professor wants Neanderthal baby?

Yes Maciamo , exactly that. William and Harry get media attention because of who they are..royalty. Now if our Neanderthal gets similar attention then it is because of who he is, a genetically engineered human who is quite distinct from other humans around him. Sooner or later this could have negative emotional effects.
I agree he would have to be adopted and treated as any other child, but would he. Don`t you think he would be observed and watched more than any other child would normally be? His development would be of interest more than an average child and so already he is treated different.
His identity could not be kept a complete secret and so always, I`m sure, will be those who would perceive him as different. We see how those of different religions or cultures can be marginalized, how much so this child? Not everyone has an open mind, a small difference can isolate a person. Isolation in itself carries many emotional effects.
Also the majority of humans seek to belong to a group, have a desire to be accepted as part of a group that is like themselves...will he ever feel he has found that place? It is one thing to be different because of a skill or talent or religion etc. but quite another if the difference is you are one of a kind.

Or perhaps I am just being too negative and these things may never arise.

There are already plenty of people who are looked upon or treated differently because they belong to minorities. This is an inevitable part of human condition, and especially since globalisation brought people from different ethnic, cultural and religious backgrounds together. Saying that this Neanderthal child shouldn't be born because he might face discrimination or social stigma is alike to saying that ethnic and religious minorities in a country shouldn't have kids because they might face discrimination or social stigma. Are you ready to pass a law to ban minorities from procreating ? Is that what you are saying ?
 
I think we are having ideas about movies like Jurassic park,
Maybe in that island we must also resurect mammoths and other animal and plants of that age.

maybe we should also ressurect Spanish flue.

and use them as factory for Influenza vaccines

This comment is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Neanderthals are partially alive in all of us.
 
I suppose if the child grew to sexual maturity, we would then say 'well, we're sorry but you can't procreate. You can get married, but we won't let you have children who may contaminate the human genome with unknown results'.

With that kind of thinking, you could ban almost anybody from procreating. Every individual carries unique mutations that could have unforeseen effects on humanity in the long term. But only the good and useful alleles survive through natural selection. That's called evolution.

Unfortunately sometimes good genes may die out through sheer bad luck, or because the environmental conditions changed temporarily. We cannot know if "pure" Neanderthals would be better or worse adapted to modern life, as they never got the chance to live past Palaeolithic times. Modern society is so complex and diverse that all kinds of minds could contribute something, one way or another. The more special the abilities, the more useful it could be for humanity as a whole. Unique minds often produce movers and shakers, people who generate new ideas and visions.
 
Regarding child isolation issue etc. if Neanderthal cloning will be possible why just make one? :) Why not 10 and thus they will have their group
 
There are already plenty of people who are looked upon or treated differently because they belong to minorities. Saying that this Neanderthal child shouldn't be born because he might face discrimination or social stigma is alike to saying that ethnic and religious minorities in a country shouldn't have kids because they might face discrimination or social stigma. Are you ready to pass a law to ban minorities from procreating ? Is that what you are saying ?

No, I never said our "hypothetical" Neanderthal should not be born because he would face discrimination. I did say there was a chance this child could suffer psychological problems as a result of said discrimination and the big difference between himself and others.

You have rightly observed such discrimination exists between minorities, and that those looked upon as different are treated differently..so on this we agree. Now how many of those individuals suffer isolation and depression because of that? These are psychological conditions and also on that I am sure we would agree.

Let`s be honest. if such a child were born tomorrow, the interest would be massive ( and that may be understating it) You said in a previous post you saw no reason why he should not live a normal life like any other person, do you really think he would be left to do that?
 
Regarding child isolation issue etc. if Neanderthal cloning will be possible why just make one? :) Why not 10 and thus they will have their group

If they make one Kardu I`m sure they wont stop at that, so yes they would have their group.
 
If they make one Kardu I`m sure they wont stop at that, so yes they would have their group.

Yes, I think too.
I was musing for argument's sake :)
In general I agree with you. No good will come out of Neanderthal cloning. Too many unsolved/unsolvable peacefully social/ethical problems in the world. Why artificially create a new one...
 
This comment is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Neanderthals are partially alive in all of us.

I think you don't get what I wanted to say, or i did not express my shelve correct,

yes Neanderdal lives partially among us but non of us say 'I am Neanderdalis',
and since we all are partially Nenderdals means they can be perfect factories for vaccines.

so their 'resurection' could be for what?

1) to use them as factories for vaccines?
2) to use them to cure cancers?
3) to use them instead of hamsters or guinea pigs?
4) to use them as an exhibit in an isolated island or a zoo?

my intension in post was to pass a sarcastic feeling,
I mean, the whole case has to do with the ability of a scientist to clone Neanderdal?
or the need to clone Neanderdal?


If Neanderdal could mate and give fertile descendants with Sapiens then it is the same to clone a human.
 
Regarding child isolation issue etc. if Neanderthal cloning will be possible why just make one? :) Why not 10 and thus they will have their group

Indeed, why not. It would be better for them socially. They wouldn't feel completely singled out.
 
yes Neanderdal lives partially among us but non of us say 'I am Neanderdalis',
and since we all are partially Nenderdals means they can be perfect factories for vaccines.

According to autosomal results interpretation magic presumably I have 2.8% Neanderthal ancestry :)

But I am full of doubts, as so far no one was able to convincingly demonstrate why don't we have any Neanderthal YDNA or MtDNA.
 
Let`s be honest. if such a child were born tomorrow, the interest would be massive ( and that may be understating it) You said in a previous post you saw no reason why he should not live a normal life like any other person, do you really think he would be left to do that?

I think you are overestimating the interest of the general population for genetics and anthropology. The truth is 99% of the people don't care at all about genetics, anthropology, developmental psychology and the like. When I discovered personal genomics test like 23andMe, I thought it was so amazing that everybody would want to take the test if they had the financial means. Now the price has fallen to a very democratic 99$, and I still find it nearly impossible to convince anybody (family or friends), even people in the medical profession, to take the test, or even show a little interest for it. The same is true for population genetics in general. This is completely beyond me. I just cannot understand why educated people would not want to learn about their origins, the roots of humanity, the genetic make-up of European countries, and so on. Most people just don't care. Why do they care about iPad, TV dramas, and football, but cannot gather the slightest interest for genetics ? That is one of the great mysteries of life, as far as I am concerned, and I am sure others on this forum have had similar experiences with their entourage. So no, I do not think that the birth of a Neanderthal child would gather nearly as much interest as the birth of Prince William and Kate's first baby. I would be surprised if the media coverage for the Neanderthal baby got 1% of the royal baby's attention. Be realistic, 99.99% of the people don't even know that they have Neanderthal genes in them, nor what exactly what a Neanderthal is.
 
Yes, I think too.
I was musing for argument's sake :)
In general I agree with you. No good will come out of Neanderthal cloning. Too many unsolved/unsolvable peacefully social/ethical problems in the world. Why artificially create a new one...

I am sure there will be more scientists to love and care about this Neanderthal baby that there are for most babies born in 'ordinary families'.
 
So no, I do not think that the birth of a Neanderthal child would gather nearly as much interest as the birth of Prince William and Kate's first baby. I would be surprised if the media coverage for the Neanderthal baby got 1% of the royal baby's attention. Be realistic, 99.99% of the people don't even know that they have Neanderthal genes in them, nor what exactly what a Neanderthal is.


You might be over-estimating the interest regarding William and Kates baby...although I am sure it will be rather large.
Unfortunately not all people need to understand what a Neanderthal is in order to discriminate.
On the rest of your post I absolutely agree with the sentiment.
 
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Yes, I think too.
I was musing for argument's sake :)
In general I agree with you. No good will come out of Neanderthal cloning. Too many unsolved/unsolvable peacefully social/ethical problems in the world. Why artificially create a new one...

Well IMO, that`s pretty much hitting the nail on the head Kardu :)
 
I think you are overestimating the interest of the general population for genetics and anthropology. The truth is 99% of the people don't care at all about genetics, anthropology, developmental psychology and the like. When I discovered personal genomics test like 23andMe, I thought it was so amazing that everybody would want to take the test if they had the financial means. Now the price has fallen to a very democratic 99$, and I still find it nearly impossible to convince anybody (family or friends), even people in the medical profession, to take the test, or even show a little interest for it. The same is true for population genetics in general. This is completely beyond me. I just cannot understand why educated people would not want to learn about their origins, the roots of humanity, the genetic make-up of European countries, and so on. Most people just don't care. Why do they care about iPad, TV dramas, and football, but cannot gather the slightest interest for genetics ? That is one of the great mysteries of life, as far as I am concerned, and I am sure others on this forum have had similar experiences with their entourage.

Could not agree more. Why everyone isn't obsessed or even concerned with their personal genetic code is a complete mystery to me too. But Maciamo, lately I have noticed a few folks listening with tilted ear when the subject is brought up. Some seemed almost frightened by DNA haplogroups--like it's taboo or something. Anybody else notice this reaction?
 
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I am sure there will be more scientists to love and care about this Neanderthal baby that there are for most babies born in 'ordinary families'.

Oh, I do not doubt that, but she or he would not have a 'normal' life as an adult and out of safety cocoon...
 
As I earlier mentioned in another thread let Church use his wife or daughter to incubate the Neanderthal that way the Neanderthal is actually his relative. IF it is a big mistake let him and the Neanderthal suffer the consequences. If it is boon then his family will be enriched. I think as a child Church may have watched 'Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde' and saw that if the experiment is wrong it could lead to a nasty end. One thing should be noted. It was written during a period where scientists had a code of honour. They experimented on themselves thus if if things go wrong they are to blame and no on else would be harmed or minimized.

Now he is asking for a "volunteer" putting himself above others so he does not sugffer the consequences of his good/bad decision.
 
Unless I missed some vital articles recently I had a perception that we managed only to decipher about half of Neanderthal DNA. There is still half of it missing to even start enlisting women to carry it in a womb.
Regardless, even if we manage to get the full one, I don't think it will be a working copy. After 30 thousand years many letters inside DNA will be missing making is useless for quick transplant into human egg. I don't think we have a technology, or will have on in the close future, to fix genome, or make a new one, letter by letter. Technically it will be possible, but who will give them billions of dollars to play with it for decades?
We might revisit this thread in 50 or 100 years when technology makes it possible and cheap, and I can put one of them in my kitchen. :) It just beats me what for? Do we lack races and varieties on this planet or people in general?
He is not going to tell us how it was way back then, to teach us history that we missed, to be really useful.
 
Oriental, that's pure genius. What a great solution. I think I may have a slight improvement though, what if we have his own daughter carry the Neanderthal "experiment" instead of his wife? Quality assurance wouldn't be an issue.
 
Unless I missed some vital articles recently I had a perception that we managed only to decipher about half of Neanderthal DNA. There is still half of it missing to even start enlisting women to carry it in a womb.

That's a good point.
 

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