c'mon man, do you really think that small albania is ever going to be able to do that, even if it wanted to!! I have lived for years in albania and I have never heard anyone say something like that. What people want there is not be bothered and live in peace within their own borders, that's it.
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c'mon man, do you really think that small albania is ever going to be able to do that, even if it wanted to!! I have lived for years in albania and I have never heard anyone say something like that. What people want there is not be bothered and live in peace within their own borders, that's it.
Why do you keep changing subject?
You said Arbëresh it's the name for Christian Albanians, I explained you it's the name of Medieval Albanians. I said, Albanians don't have specific names referring to different religious groups, and even asked the name for Albanian Jews to show you my point, a question you never answered by the way. Then you said Albanians in Italy are called Arbëresh due to language (make up your mind--enthoreligious or enthnolect), I showed you why Arbëresh in Italy and Arvanitika in Greece are called with that name. In case you still don't get it, it's because they keep using the Medieval Albanian name, while Albanians in Albania changed to Shqiptarë.
You kept implying Albanians arrived from Egypt in the 14th century (are you denying this?), while I kept saying there are no differences found between Albanians and other IE Europeans, as much as geneticists have tried. Someone else gave you the link. You ignored this. Instead you kept referring to some test where Jevg and Gabel(Arrixhi) people were apparently mentioned as ethnic Albanians. Any simple search shows this is not true. You apparently just accepted this as fact. Did you even bother to check the sources? Or do you simply like those results?
You never my questions though. What's the name for Jewish Albanians? What's the name used for Medieval Albanians in Albania? Instead, you asked me about Ptolemy. Did I even mentioned him? Does he have the answers of those questions? Why did you change subject?
Yetos
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@ Kamani,
THERE IS NO PROVE, NO DATA, NO SCIENTISTIC REPORT.
ONLY CHEAP THEORIES THAT CREATE FOG
ONLY FABRICATED DATA,
ONLY TWISTED VIEWS,
BUT BIG IMAGINATION,
except you, I wonder who else share that ideas?
Search the truth in Oliver Jenns Smitt last history about Albania,
with full data, dates, reports, Lexicons, etc,
ALBANIAN is NOT ILLYRIAN LANGUAGE NEITHER ILLYRIAN TRIBE
there are a lot of evidences here, and you twist texts and data just to say your Poem,
ZEUS 10 is gona be pride of you, you learn the poem well,
Only until today you have not told us, Albanian share or not Pelasgian Ancestry?
Illyros brother of Gaul and Celt what language he spoke? Albanian or Celtic?
NOW ALBANIA is SMALL,
in other posts you agreed with Zeus that Greeks dissapear and modern Greeks are from Albanian origin, and Albanians are all over the world. from Italy to Turkey from Greece to romania
now you laugh when someone reveals your dream, but you agreed silently when that were spoken.
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@ Zemra,
why you speak against Zanipolo and not against Kamani, Zeus10 and the others who made Albanians, Sicilians Pelasgians Celts Gauls Basquez, what if Zanipolo put also berber?
that is your problem? the extra berber?
why you don't speak with same heat about Zeus10 or kamani or the rest?
Why you don't say about Zeus10 who posted a map showing that Greece is even far North of lake Skonder?
why You don't say about Finalize who spoke about tribe Albani while he did not know Parthini?
cause Zanipolo is not Albanian or cause he brings evidences data and kickthe imaginary theories of Zeus10?
another Albanian said that Greek Romano-Latin Slavic languages are church languages,
DID YOU TAKE ACTION TO THAT? NO YOU AGRRED SILENTLY,
AND WHEN ZANIPOLO OR ME OR SOMEone ELSE COMEs AND ASK FOR DATA YOU TAKE FULL ACTION.
I HEARD THE MOST weird theories, with no aproved data.
Maybe tomorrow Zeus 10 will tell us that aAnna komnene was Albanian, and Epirus Despotate was Albanian,
whom we are kidding, EPIRUS DESPOTATE was Albanian because of a photo of a Lexicon? did you search that Lexicon? did you know who and why post it?
How can it Be Epirotan Language to Be Greek at 1350 and Albanian to 1450?
and many of you just close your mouth, and when someone spoke about another version or speaks truth then you jump to him like dogs why he said that?
You don't need to white knight him. I simply corrected some of his mistakes and HE started attacking ME. Did any of the people you mentioned attacked me? Did I say anything to YOU? No, because YOU didn't attack ME. So many other non-Albanian members posted here, none of them attacked ME, therefore I didn't respond to any of them.
Let's check again what happened:
1) I explained to a member (doesn't matter who) here the difference between "Arbëresh" and "Shqiptar".
2) Zanipolo answered to my comment that "Arbëresh" means "Christian Albanian" and also he mentioned Ptolemy out of the blue.
3) Zanipolo made another comment where not only he continued with his "Christian Albanian", but also mentioned a 14th century migration of ethnic Albanians from Egypt.
4) Instead of double posting, I answered to both of his comments just by replying to the second one.
5) He answered by accusing ME of presenting an illogical fact. About saying that "Arbëresh" it's the name for "Medieval Albanians" instead of "Christian Albanians"? About saying that Albanians are not different from IE Europeans genetically? Which of these is an illogical fact? And then he mentioned Ptolemy out of the blue again.
6) I replied by asking him some questions just so he could understand that he was the one wrong not me. Perhaps I should have made the questions more specific because:
7) He replied me for completely different things. And then he mentioned Ptolemy again
8) I rephrased my questions, and gave links to defend my supposedly "illogical claim".
9) He didn't answer and linked me to post #70, a post, to be more specific a reply that was never intended for/directed to ME in the first place.
10) You (Yetos) replied to me for the post I made to Zanipolo
I'm still confused what does Ptolemy (c. 70-168) has to do with Medieval (c. 11-17th centuries) and Contemporary (c. 17th century-Now) names for Albanians. Or genetics (mid 19th century) for that matter.
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well, go see a brain doctor Yetos.
zanipolo
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lets clear up these errors
i entered this thread on the stupid post#8
- my post #46 should of had @finalise before the ptolemy sentence
- you replied on post#54 INCLUDING my ptolemy sentence which indicates you want to talk about it
- other posts are normal continuation
on christian Arberesh - I already said its the name given by italians on albanians who settled in italy a long time ago. The italians will never ever say they are albanians. They are called christian because they escaped from ottoman rule.
Same system as they will never ever say the cimbri in north Italy are Danish.
The Italians also say there are no Italians before 1860 .......that's the system.
New albanians are albanesi unless they become italians citizens...then they are Italians.
- what did I not answer ?
On comments about gypies....they are a summary on Fenni's 2010 papers.
The only medieval thing I said was about a Bulgarian map in the 11th century.
Now, If you want to talk about ancient writers for albanians...let me know
zanipolo
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The only word I found for albanoi was that it meant, not from these lands
http://books.google.com.au/books?id...ved=0CC0Q6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=albanoi&f=false
meaning of Albanus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanus
In medieval Latin "albanus" (pl. albani) meaned "stranger, coming from abroad, foreigner", possibly from the Latin alibi. It was also an old French Law term meaning “a man belonging to a different jurisdiction”
When did ancient Latin change albanus to the medieval meaning, is albanoi plural ?
unless I got the Latin wrong, then Pliny the Elder
idem in Albania gigni quosdam glauca oculorum acie, a pueritia statim canos, qui noctu plus quam interdiu cernant. idem itinere dierum XIII supra Borysthenen Sauromatas tertio die cibum capere semper.
albanians are grey hair people ( meaning ancient) who originated from Dniepr Sarmatia
strabo only states
15. This mountain overhangs both the Euxine and the Caspian seas, forming a kind of rampart to the isthmus which separates one sea from the other. To the south it is the boundary of Albania and Iberia, to the north, of the plains of the Sarmatians. It is well wooded, and contains various kinds of timber
In my opinion both pliny and strabo mean somebody else as there is not that much E haplogroup in those parts
Maybe albanoi are foreigners not from this land as per Latin
http://books.google.com.au/books?id...ved=0CC0Q6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=albanoi&f=false
meaning of Albanus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanus
In medieval Latin "albanus" (pl. albani) meaned "stranger, coming from abroad, foreigner", possibly from the Latin alibi. It was also an old French Law term meaning “a man belonging to a different jurisdiction”
When did ancient Latin change albanus to the medieval meaning, is albanoi plural ?
unless I got the Latin wrong, then Pliny the Elder
idem in Albania gigni quosdam glauca oculorum acie, a pueritia statim canos, qui noctu plus quam interdiu cernant. idem itinere dierum XIII supra Borysthenen Sauromatas tertio die cibum capere semper.
albanians are grey hair people ( meaning ancient) who originated from Dniepr Sarmatia
strabo only states
15. This mountain overhangs both the Euxine and the Caspian seas, forming a kind of rampart to the isthmus which separates one sea from the other. To the south it is the boundary of Albania and Iberia, to the north, of the plains of the Sarmatians. It is well wooded, and contains various kinds of timber
In my opinion both pliny and strabo mean somebody else as there is not that much E haplogroup in those parts
Maybe albanoi are foreigners not from this land as per Latin
Yeap, the study proved there are people called Egyptians in Albania but this is enough for Zanipolo to claim they comprise two other dialects of Albanian language in addition to Tosk and Geg, that is Jevg, Gabel.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/27011-The-Albanian-language/page2
:wary2:
Yetos, from my time in this forum I have seen you claim many things regarding Albanian people, some extraordinary claims or just pure theories or factual errors .. but I noticed that Albanians did not respond to you or just let you go on.
Albanians who claim Illyrians do so based on some scientific grounds which you cannot deny, such as common language terms shared of what remains of Illyrian language, place names, shared language terms with Messapic, fact that we occupy what was once Illyria proper etc. Albanian language also shares the same with what remains of Thracian and less of Dacian languages. This prompts some researches to opt for a Thracian or northern original of Albania people.
Why do you call Albanians who support the illyrian origin as nationalists and the latter not? I think because the more closer to the Greeks we get the more threatened you somehow feel. I have no idea why.
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@ Kesi.
Dacian is Thracian,
Illyrian = Celtic - Celtoid,
Read my posts #42 #78 and then accuse me,
Messapic elements are also spoken around Moesia,
about 'come closer' and fear.,
who ask you to do so, or invited you?
and what you mean closer?
and finnaly by agree that Greek is a clergy language, and Hellenes never exist or disapear, simply you don't come closer,
but did you said to your Nationalistic friend 'No Greek is not Clergy language'? or what he means Greek disapear? NO but you agreed quietly or you close your mouth cause you fear such quys.
that is not closer Kesi, that is far away
told you your enemy is among you
you agreed Greek as Clergy language, but the 3 oldest text in Albanian language are Church-liturgy texts,
Zanipolo had ask how many prove from Ptolemy book but no, you agreed with finalise about fictional tribe Albanoi.
and my final answer
if someone spokes with Fiction , twisted data, twiseted texts about Albanian supremacy, you all agreed,
when someone gave real data, real texts, you all turned against him,
that is not Science,
Kesi a question for you,
Epirus and Albania is the same?
don't avoid to answer
- That's not where we started, not my problem
- Would you assume otherwise if I didn't have the Albanian flag?
- No, other posts are me explaining things right and you wrong.
Here's the distinction. Arbëresh are Albanians who left for Italy in the Medieval times, speak an archaic version of Albanian, and they're called with this name, because this was the medieval name for Albanians. It doesn't cross religious boundaries. Are Christian Albanians from Albania called Arbëresh?zanipolo said:
OK.zanipolo said:
I asked you if Albanians have different names for each other based on religion, what are Jewish Albanians called? You compared Albanians to Gentili, meaning you treated Albanians as an ethnoreligious society. Well, let's continue with the same logic. What's the name for Jewish Albanians?zanipolo said:
There was never a Fenni who studied Gypsies in Albania. It was Ferri. It wasn't a typo, because you kept using that name. You were referring to a fake study. And those weren't his results. These were his results: http://bit.ly/155ZS4q Guess what? There's a group of people in the Balkans the same as another one, but wants to be distinct, so calls themselves by another name. That's news to you? What about calling them Albanians in the first place? They're called Romani here: www.yhrd.org/YC164 . You called them Albanians, because you liked the results. That's what it means to be neutral, huh? And just google "Albanian dialects", do you see Jevg and Gabel anywhere? Or do you want me to do that too? http://bit.ly/XxIK0jzanipolo said:
Half of conversation we had was about the medieval Albanians. The other half was me saying Albanians are proven they're NOT different from other Europeans/have common European origins, even though the language is different. Was I talking to a wall?zanipolo said:
Sure, I got curious about Ptolemy and started searching for him. The part he said about Albanopolis/Albanoi? It was cited by so many people, one after the other; they were never questioned. Names like Jovan Cvijic, Alexandru Madegaru, Martin Gordon, William Smith, Richard Talbert etc. before Albanians using it. They might be thousands to have used that part as a citation. Go question them, not me. What did I say to get bullied so much?zanipolo said:
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1) In that book it was referring to Normans.
2) Other possible etymologies are *albho- white, *alb- hill, and it's a pretty commonly used name.
3) What the context of the Latin text? Are they talking about two different people? First part describes some people of the night called Albanians, the other says Dneiper Sarmatians. Were they preparing for a battle? At night?
4) I see, Caucasus Iberia and Albania, so of course it's different people. Albania is an exonym in Caucasus.
-------------------------------------------
@Yetos Greek is not an mystery to anyone, so it really doesn't need defending. It's not a case of agreeing quietly, it's a case of quietly moving on to the next post.
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here are some authors claiming the Illyro-pelazgian origin of albanians: Johan Thunman, Johann Hahn, Jakob Fallmerayer. They're all known german historians(hence neutral). Also they went through the work of actually learning albanian. So if someone has something against the albanians descending from illyrians, they can go dig up their books and try to publish some of their own to contradict them; cheap forum talk doesn't really count.
zanipolo
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It was Ferri as you stated
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00414-010-0432-x
http://dienekes.blogspot.com.au/2010/03/y-chromosomes-of-albanian-populations.html
http://dienekes.blogspot.com.au/2010/07/y-chromosomes-of-arbereshe-from.html
In regards to the word gentiles, the confusion is you thought i referred to albanians. it was a Roman word for Jews who became christians, I never said albanian jews ( are there albanian jews?)
In regards to Ptolemy and other greek and Roman historians, I cannot find ALBANOI , except in latin translation meaning a foreigner, ...not from these lands.
All other meanings of light, mount, white, dawn, holy etc etc are BS
It would be best if you write to the Albanian government and get them to change the name of Albania to its PROPER name used by its people which is Shqiptar
zanipolo
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These writers have been dismissed, because of the fact that Illyrians are central european people which moved south along the western balkans over there historical period.......while thracians are southern balkan and they moved in a northward along the eastern balkans.
which led to a illyo-thracian mix of the borders
Since illyrian are central european along the danube and there is no E haplogroup there, then Illyrians cannot be albanian PLUS, the celtic people already started to merge with illyrians by 700BC in central europe. Celts as far as I know did not have any decent amount of E
Yetos
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@ KEsi
1) Go find about Epirus Despotate against State of Alba and Anju, (Epirus is synonym to Greeks in ship catalogue in homer)
2) Go find who were the major divisions of Thracian, (Odrysee, Tribali, Getan-Dacian, Paeoni) and illyro-Thracian (Dardani)
3) Arbanitika and Arberesh is another story. has nothing to do with Illyrian ancestry but mostly after Maniakis and South Italy, and 4rth Crusade, not with Illyrian case, Don't mix 1200 AD with 700 BC.
4) Tell me which was the sacred oracle of Greeks before Delphi? was it Dodona or not?
5) what do you know about Ελιμειοι Elimeians? to what nation branch will you put them?
these are question to help you understand what we are talking,
Getan-Dacian was a kind of Dialect among Thracians, like Duetsch and Austrian and Dutch in Germanic or Geg-Tosk in Albanian. your thesis about Dacian is like if Geg are Albanians then Tosk are not, Thracian is a wider family of dialects and tribes, not the Lysimachos Thrace.
Besides Dardania is considered Illyro-Thracian much before Illyrian wars.
The one who is using Epirotes as Albanians is Zeus 10 after a lexicon,
Before that Lexicon Publish we have Epirus Despotate, was it Albanian Kesi?
and if you go to far ancient times, who are the Greeks (not Myceneans) in Homer Katalogue of Ships?
don't mix Myceneans with Greeks, Both are Hellenes but not the same sub-group,
Myceneans is a sub-group of Hellenes not the total amount of Greeks,
when Karanos established Makedonian Kingdom Elimeians were East of Lake Λυχνιτις (Ohrid) living among Phrygians.
THE BIG QUESTION TO ANSWER YOUR SHELF ?
IF EPIROTANS WERE ILLYRIANS? WHY MAKEDONIANS AND REST GREEKS CALL THEM EPIROTANS AND NOT ILLYRIANS?
AND WHY ALL GEOGRAPHERS NAME THEM AS EPIROTANS AND NOT AS ILLYRIA OR ILLYRIAN TRIBE? like Taulanti-Parthini etc?
Search Why Makedonians consider Dodona oracle much more sacred than Delphi.
Πυρος Βασιλευ Ηπειρου
Pyros king of Epiros Not King of Illyria. understand that.
Bardulis King Of Illyrian Dardani not of Epirotan Dardani, etc
PS
SOME ALBANIANS HERE IN THE FORUM CLAIM THAT EXISTED ALBANI TRIBE AFTER A POSSIBLE CITY ALBANIAPOLIS MENTIONED IN PTOLEMY, BUT GIVE NO TEXT
WHY THEN THEY DON"T READ ABOUT PTOLAMY AND EPIRUS.
ΑΡΧΕΓΟΝΟΣ ΕΛΛΑΣ
MOTHERLAND OF GREEKS (ΓΡΑΙΟΙ) NAMES PTOLEMY EPIRUS
WHY YOU MAKE HYPOTHETICAL TRIBES AND CLAIM PTOLEMY? AND YOU REJECT HIM ABOUT EPIROS?
PTOLEMY
AΡΧΕΓΟΝΟΣ ΕΛΛΑΣ ΗΕΠΙΡΟΣ (MOTHERLAND OF GREEKS, EPIROS)
ARISTOTLE
ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΤΗΝ ΑΡΧΑΙΑΝ (BEGINING OF GREECE)
PROKOPIOS
Ελληνες εισιν, Ηπειρωται καλουμενοι, αχρις Επιδαμνου πολεως (Dyrrach).
THOYKIDIDES
same with Prokopios Epirotan tribes until EPidamnos
DIionysios (ο περιηγητης)
Describes as Epiros and Greek until North of Αυλων (Vlore) το Απολλονια (Pogiani)
STRABO
GIVES BORDER AMONG ILLYRIA AND GREECE THE ΓΕΝΟΥΣΙΟΣ RIVER
Pliny the elder
his description about Illyria proprie Dicti describes land away from Epirus
Besides
Epirotans always took part in Olympic Games,
'Ωρκιην υπερ αιαν ερειδειται Ελλαδος αρχη'
search for it.' Greece starts from Ωρικο lands'
so kesi the one who claim Epirotes are not Greeks is you, and Zeus10, at least he gave a lexicon published by Tocco family friend, you? any link ? any writer?
Besides all historian say that after 4rth crusade the Greeks who resist were 4 kingdoms, among them Epiros Despotate which was at war with Anjou's Alba,
or you will claim that Epirus despotate was Albanian also?
Greeks is a no Mycenean, Hellenick tribe described in Homer katalogue of ships, and many others later.
before Delphi and Olympia was Dodona and Hellanas river,
they call Epirus not as Hellenic but as Begining, motherland, ancient Greece, where all begun.
PS 2do you have any link that Epirotans were not Greeks?
where you based your aproach that they were not Greeks?
PART2
when I said Illyrian Pelasgian+Celtic all of you claim whatever ideas as mother of IE or as 'gods' Basquez etc
When I said about E HG from Levant all you Nationalists claimed Caucasian, Neolithic Spain, and you were proud,
When Zanipolo said about Phoenician you laugh,
All of you claim what ever and play it scientists.
But it Seems you don't know even the Geography of your Country,
NOT EVEN THE ANCIENTS CITIES OF YOUR COUNTRY.
outside of Saranta (Βουθρωτο) there is an ancient city, named Φοινικη (Phoenike)
you see all of you Albanian Nationalists are so blind that do not even know or understand the history and the name meaning of your country.
1) Go find about Epirus Despotate against State of Alba and Anju, (Epirus is synonym to Greeks in ship catalogue in homer)
2) Go find who were the major divisions of Thracian, (Odrysee, Tribali, Getan-Dacian, Paeoni) and illyro-Thracian (Dardani)
3) Arbanitika and Arberesh is another story. has nothing to do with Illyrian ancestry but mostly after Maniakis and South Italy, and 4rth Crusade, not with Illyrian case, Don't mix 1200 AD with 700 BC.
4) Tell me which was the sacred oracle of Greeks before Delphi? was it Dodona or not?
5) what do you know about Ελιμειοι Elimeians? to what nation branch will you put them?
these are question to help you understand what we are talking,
Getan-Dacian was a kind of Dialect among Thracians, like Duetsch and Austrian and Dutch in Germanic or Geg-Tosk in Albanian. your thesis about Dacian is like if Geg are Albanians then Tosk are not, Thracian is a wider family of dialects and tribes, not the Lysimachos Thrace.
Besides Dardania is considered Illyro-Thracian much before Illyrian wars.
The one who is using Epirotes as Albanians is Zeus 10 after a lexicon,
Before that Lexicon Publish we have Epirus Despotate, was it Albanian Kesi?
and if you go to far ancient times, who are the Greeks (not Myceneans) in Homer Katalogue of Ships?
don't mix Myceneans with Greeks, Both are Hellenes but not the same sub-group,
Myceneans is a sub-group of Hellenes not the total amount of Greeks,
when Karanos established Makedonian Kingdom Elimeians were East of Lake Λυχνιτις (Ohrid) living among Phrygians.
THE BIG QUESTION TO ANSWER YOUR SHELF ?
IF EPIROTANS WERE ILLYRIANS? WHY MAKEDONIANS AND REST GREEKS CALL THEM EPIROTANS AND NOT ILLYRIANS?
AND WHY ALL GEOGRAPHERS NAME THEM AS EPIROTANS AND NOT AS ILLYRIA OR ILLYRIAN TRIBE? like Taulanti-Parthini etc?
Search Why Makedonians consider Dodona oracle much more sacred than Delphi.
Πυρος Βασιλευ Ηπειρου
Pyros king of Epiros Not King of Illyria. understand that.
Bardulis King Of Illyrian Dardani not of Epirotan Dardani, etc
PS
SOME ALBANIANS HERE IN THE FORUM CLAIM THAT EXISTED ALBANI TRIBE AFTER A POSSIBLE CITY ALBANIAPOLIS MENTIONED IN PTOLEMY, BUT GIVE NO TEXT
WHY THEN THEY DON"T READ ABOUT PTOLAMY AND EPIRUS.
ΑΡΧΕΓΟΝΟΣ ΕΛΛΑΣ
MOTHERLAND OF GREEKS (ΓΡΑΙΟΙ) NAMES PTOLEMY EPIRUS
WHY YOU MAKE HYPOTHETICAL TRIBES AND CLAIM PTOLEMY? AND YOU REJECT HIM ABOUT EPIROS?
PTOLEMY
AΡΧΕΓΟΝΟΣ ΕΛΛΑΣ ΗΕΠΙΡΟΣ (MOTHERLAND OF GREEKS, EPIROS)
ARISTOTLE
ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΤΗΝ ΑΡΧΑΙΑΝ (BEGINING OF GREECE)
PROKOPIOS
Ελληνες εισιν, Ηπειρωται καλουμενοι, αχρις Επιδαμνου πολεως (Dyrrach).
THOYKIDIDES
same with Prokopios Epirotan tribes until EPidamnos
DIionysios (ο περιηγητης)
Describes as Epiros and Greek until North of Αυλων (Vlore) το Απολλονια (Pogiani)
STRABO
GIVES BORDER AMONG ILLYRIA AND GREECE THE ΓΕΝΟΥΣΙΟΣ RIVER
Pliny the elder
his description about Illyria proprie Dicti describes land away from Epirus
Besides
Epirotans always took part in Olympic Games,
'Ωρκιην υπερ αιαν ερειδειται Ελλαδος αρχη'
search for it.' Greece starts from Ωρικο lands'
so kesi the one who claim Epirotes are not Greeks is you, and Zeus10, at least he gave a lexicon published by Tocco family friend, you? any link ? any writer?
Besides all historian say that after 4rth crusade the Greeks who resist were 4 kingdoms, among them Epiros Despotate which was at war with Anjou's Alba,
or you will claim that Epirus despotate was Albanian also?
Greeks is a no Mycenean, Hellenick tribe described in Homer katalogue of ships, and many others later.
before Delphi and Olympia was Dodona and Hellanas river,
they call Epirus not as Hellenic but as Begining, motherland, ancient Greece, where all begun.
PS 2do you have any link that Epirotans were not Greeks?
where you based your aproach that they were not Greeks?
PART2
when I said Illyrian Pelasgian+Celtic all of you claim whatever ideas as mother of IE or as 'gods' Basquez etc
When I said about E HG from Levant all you Nationalists claimed Caucasian, Neolithic Spain, and you were proud,
When Zanipolo said about Phoenician you laugh,
All of you claim what ever and play it scientists.
But it Seems you don't know even the Geography of your Country,
NOT EVEN THE ANCIENTS CITIES OF YOUR COUNTRY.
outside of Saranta (Βουθρωτο) there is an ancient city, named Φοινικη (Phoenike)
you see all of you Albanian Nationalists are so blind that do not even know or understand the history and the name meaning of your country.
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dismissed!! how can entire books by different historians be dismissed, especially by someone expressing his views in a forum.
E has been in south-east europe before celtic R1b got there, that's why you don't see a high percentage of it in placed like Ireland. However you see a considerable percentage in Austria, the next Hallstat country closest to Albania. The jugoslav countries also have considerable E, because of assimilating albanians into slavs. Out of all the non-albanian jugoslavs, based on y-dna, the serbs are the ones who can claim the most illyrian ancestry, by virtue of having assimilated albanians. But then if you compare autosomally, albanians are closer to Montenegrins and Macedonians than Serbs. Genetically, the furthest jugoslavs from Albanians are Croatians.