Serbs and Croats origin from Germanic Scirii and Hirri?

"The Saami are regarded as extreme genetic outliers among European populations. In this study, a high-resolution phylogenetic analysis of Saami genetic heritage was undertaken in a comprehensive context, through use of maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and paternally inherited Y-chromosomal variation. DNA variants present in the Saami were compared with those found in Europe and Siberia, through use of both new and previously published data from 445 Saami and 17,096 western Eurasian and Siberian mtDNA samples, as well as 127 Saami and 2,840 western Eurasian and Siberian Y-chromosome samples. It was shown that the “Saami motif” variant of mtDNA haplogroup U5b is present in a large area outside Scandinavia. A detailed phylogeographic analysis of one of the predominant Saami mtDNA haplogroups, U5b1b, which also includes the lineages of the “Saami motif,” was undertaken in 31 populations. The results indicate that the origin of U5b1b, as for the other predominant Saami haplogroup, V, is most likely in western, rather than eastern, Europe. Furthermore, an additional haplogroup (H1) spread among the Saami was virtually absent in 781 Samoyed and Ob-Ugric Siberians but was present in western and central European populations. The Y-chromosomal variety in the Saami is also consistent with their European ancestry. It suggests that the large genetic separation of the Saami from other Europeans is best explained by assuming that the Saami are descendants of a narrow, distinctive subset of Europeans. In particular, no evidence of a significant directional gene flow from extant aboriginal Siberian populations into the haploid gene pools of the Saami was found."

"Soon after the beginning of the retreat of the ice sheets covering the area, in the 8th–10th millennia before present (BP), populations of hunters and fishermen, the producers of the Mesolithic Komsa and Fosna-Hensbacka cultures, inhabited the coastal region of Scandinavia, extending well into Finland and to the Kola Peninsula (Kozlowski and Bandi 1984; Nygaard 1989; Sumkin 1990). The linguistic affiliation of these pioneer settlers of the north is largely unknown, but it has been suggested that they are the descendants of the Ahrensburgian population, which migrated toward the north from western Europe, along the Atlantic coast of Norway. It has been proposed that they might have been the ancestors of the present-day Saami (e.g., Sumkin 1990). Another presumably important component in the postglacial recolonization of northern Fennoscandia came from the east, via Karelia and Finland. It has been associated with the movement of Mesolithic populations, carriers of post-Swiderian cultures, to the north. Starting in the Neolithic period, the northern population came into contact with tribes of territories lying to the south (e.g., Sumkin 1990). Thus, according to archeological data, the present-day Saami population might have been shaped in different times both by the eastern and western influences."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181943/
 
Okey Dokey.

Al-Kochol isn't completely wrong, just some what wrong. There hasn't been any Y-DNA recovered from any Viking grave (that I could find). So, we don't know exactly what their paternal makeup was. Scandinavia has a large modern population of hg 1, but R1a and R1b are found in Scandinavia as well. The Vikings were a Northern European mixed race. It's just speculation to assume all Vikings were hg I or all were R1a. The Danish and Swedish Kings were R1b (15th Century on). Their ancestors were probably as well. The legendary Ragnor Lothbrok may have been R1b. The Jarls and elite may have been a heavy R1b and R1a population, and the common farmer may have been I1. The La Tene culture had a major influence on Germanic culture.
 
There is absolutely no scientific evidence for the spread of finnugric languages with hg.N1c1.
 
There is absolutely no scientific evidence for the spread of finnugric languages with hg.N1c1.
In fact Lithuanians and Latvians have a huge amount of N1c, yet they speak a Indo-European language.
 
"The Saami are regarded as extreme genetic outliers among European populations. In this study, a high-resolution phylogenetic analysis of Saami genetic heritage was undertaken in a comprehensive context, through use of maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and paternally inherited Y-chromosomal variation. DNA variants present in the Saami were compared with those found in Europe and Siberia, through use of both new and previously published data from 445 Saami and 17,096 western Eurasian and Siberian mtDNA samples, as well as 127 Saami and 2,840 western Eurasian and Siberian Y-chromosome samples. It was shown that the “Saami motif” variant of mtDNA haplogroup U5b is present in a large area outside Scandinavia. A detailed phylogeographic analysis of one of the predominant Saami mtDNA haplogroups, U5b1b, which also includes the lineages of the “Saami motif,” was undertaken in 31 populations. The results indicate that the origin of U5b1b, as for the other predominant Saami haplogroup, V, is most likely in western, rather than eastern, Europe. Furthermore, an additional haplogroup (H1) spread among the Saami was virtually absent in 781 Samoyed and Ob-Ugric Siberians but was present in western and central European populations. The Y-chromosomal variety in the Saami is also consistent with their European ancestry. It suggests that the large genetic separation of the Saami from other Europeans is best explained by assuming that the Saami are descendants of a narrow, distinctive subset of Europeans. In particular, no evidence of a significant directional gene flow from extant aboriginal Siberian populations into the haploid gene pools of the Saami was found."

"Soon after the beginning of the retreat of the ice sheets covering the area, in the 8th–10th millennia before present (BP), populations of hunters and fishermen, the producers of the Mesolithic Komsa and Fosna-Hensbacka cultures, inhabited the coastal region of Scandinavia, extending well into Finland and to the Kola Peninsula (Kozlowski and Bandi 1984; Nygaard 1989; Sumkin 1990). The linguistic affiliation of these pioneer settlers of the north is largely unknown, but it has been suggested that they are the descendants of the Ahrensburgian population, which migrated toward the north from western Europe, along the Atlantic coast of Norway. It has been proposed that they might have been the ancestors of the present-day Saami (e.g., Sumkin 1990). Another presumably important component in the postglacial recolonization of northern Fennoscandia came from the east, via Karelia and Finland. It has been associated with the movement of Mesolithic populations, carriers of post-Swiderian cultures, to the north. Starting in the Neolithic period, the northern population came into contact with tribes of territories lying to the south (e.g., Sumkin 1990). Thus, according to archeological data, the present-day Saami population might have been shaped in different times both by the eastern and western influences."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181943/

I know it, though this study is from 2004, outdated in terms of SNP. A more recent one from 2012 with updated genetic test among populations: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3062008/

The detailed phylogeographic analysis by Tambets et al13 has shown that the present-day Saami are descendants of a narrow subset of Europeans that reached northern Fennoscandia from both a western and eastern route and that subsequently got admixed.13

This latter study also found a few selected and specific east Asian mitochondrial DNA variants in the gene pool of populations from Fennoscandia. Genetic evidence indicates that these Asian haplogroups have reached northeastern Europe via the Volga-Ural region of Russia.14 Recently, a limited Asian contribution to the Saami gene pool has also been demonstrated based on HLA data.15


It is really correct to say the Saami people has a dual origin, probably have a heterogeneous genetic origin, with a major contribution of continental, or Eastern European tribes and a smaller contribution from Asia (Artirc Siberia). What is known now as previously speculated by archaeological and linguistic links. It is the fact they have a link to Volga-Urals through genome-wide data. This phenomenon must be linked as Saami Y-dna pool is not really that much different from the Finnish one.
Should remember that the modern Saamis are a result of two ancient Saamic populations and also they suffered a blottneck founder populational effect in Northern areas. The role of the Saami in all of this is that they have kept more of the Volga-Ural and Siberian influence than Finns.

Adding the Finns and Saamis share a similar origin.
http://fennoscandia.blogspot.com.br/2011/11/little-study-of-saami-finns-and.html
http://sydaby.eget.net/swe/jp_finns.htm

However claim that they are here since the end of the ice age is an absurd.

What is interesting in this study you posted is the fact of presence of more ancient people populating the West coast of Norway than Sweden (I wouldn't doubt in it, the West coast of Norway has a milder climate during winter).
I don't how correct Bryan Sykes is, but he speculated?! that some mtDNA H3 (my mtDNA) entered Scandinavia via Norway coming from the British Isles during the late mesolithic to early neolithic in the region.
 
Al-Kochol isn't completely wrong, just some what wrong. There hasn't been any Y-DNA recovered from any Viking grave (that I could find). So, we don't know exactly what their paternal makeup was. Scandinavia has a large modern population of hg 1, but R1a and R1b are found in Scandinavia as well. The Vikings were a Northern European mixed race. It's just speculation to assume all Vikings were hg I or all were R1a. The Danish and Swedish Kings were R1b (15th Century on). Their ancestors were probably as well. The legendary Ragnor Lothbrok may have been R1b. The Jarls and elite may have been a heavy R1b and R1a population, and the common farmer may have been I1. The La Tene culture had a major influence on Germanic culture.

I would say the 'Viking peons' were mostly I1, whereas all historical Viking outpost has great amount of it. Honestly I don't know, crazy theory anyways.

Well according with Geni.com, Snorri Sturluson of ancient Norse sagas was a I1 carry(y) , yet he was a descendant of Viking settlers in Iceland.
http://www.geni.com/projects/I1-M253-Y-DNA/3750

As for La Tene culture, I doubt they had greater influence among Iron age Germanic Scandinavians (maybe a small of it through contact and trade, well there is some old Celtic artifacts found in Denmark and Southern Sweden)..
I would think of it having a real influence among the Franks in Central Europe, or with the 'Germanic Iron age' ancestry of modern day Dutch people and Germans. What would be geographically logical.
la-tene-warrior-fringe-and-negau.jpg
 
La tene culture did not impact Scandinavia, nor where la tene men predominantly haplogroup I....they had very very small traces of certain I2 subclades but the dominant bulk of them where R1b, probably of the u152 subclade as la tene is a village in Switzerland, a country where 1 out of 2 of its men are haplogroup u152, although there Is also haplogroup R1b S-116 ( P312), which is the father of both Irish L-21 and franco-Swiss u-152 that must have moved into Iberia/southwestern and central France some time before as u152 is downstream and then younger still is L-21.. S-21 is not associated with these Clades as it branched off much earlier from R1b-M269 anyways, ( not associated being an expression for branching off earlier)
 
Al-Kochol isn't completely wrong, just some what wrong. There hasn't been any Y-DNA recovered from any Viking grave (that I could find). So, we don't know exactly what their paternal makeup was. Scandinavia has a large modern population of hg 1, but R1a and R1b are found in Scandinavia as well. The Vikings were a Northern European mixed race. It's just speculation to assume all Vikings were hg I or all were R1a. The Danish and Swedish Kings were R1b (15th Century on). Their ancestors were probably as well. The legendary Ragnor Lothbrok may have been R1b. The Jarls and elite may have been a heavy R1b and R1a population, and the common farmer may have been I1. The La Tene culture had a major influence on Germanic culture.
Of course Vikings were made up of a mix of y-DNA (I1, R1a, and R1b among others). And a quick history lesson... Vikings were vast majority "common farmer" stock.
 
And they where also majoritarily I1a.
 
And they where also majoritarily I1a.
Not necessarily. We don't know, it is speculated, but the I1 is in fact the 'best' haplogroup used as a reference when studying historical 'Viking' colonies and outposts. (The most famous cases are I1 'Scandinavians' from Istanbul, Kiev and Palermo.)

However R1a-Z284 in Britain tend to be the 'best' haplogroup indicative of it.

(Iceland is 40% Rb1, 35% I1. And Rurik which ruled Kievan Rus could have been N1c1. Of all 191 men claiming to be Rurikid and Ivan the Terrible descendants in Russia indicate that most (68%) of the them had haplogroup N1c1, only 9% were I1.)

Rurikid Dynasty DNA Project- Background
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/rurikid/index.aspx?fixed_columns=on
 
They are linked to Vikings I1a men I even read it out of Dr. Spencer Wells deep ancestry book where he describes I1a
 
Vikings were not I1, but R1a. I1 were Goths. Vikings mixed with them in the Scandinavian peninsula. Viking Ruś were mostly R1a + some leftover of I2a.

for clarity, in the last 2 years its already been found that the Scandinavian SNP of R1a does not match any of the Goth R1a. Since Gothic graves around danzig have in majority R1a, this indicates the goths in majority to be R1a and from continental Europe, the Scandinavian contingent of the goths must have been some form of mercenaries.
The next question is...does the HG I in the northern black sea area where goths resided for 200 years match any in Scandinavia?
same question with the 70 years of goths in Dalmatia and also 200 years in Italy
 
The Ostrogoths passed through Italy, but barely genetically influenced the peninsula at all, in either R1a or I2a foreign elements...they obviously didn't have enough time or even influence to change much of the italian genetic composition.
 
The Ostrogoths passed through Italy, but barely genetically influenced the peninsula at all

Correct. They just passed through the Italian peninsula like bullets but settled down in Balkans.
 
...The Jarls and elite may have been a heavy R1b and R1a population, and the common farmer may have been I1...

This is a field where I'm very familiar. The term Viking described a journey or form of behavior more than a tribe or nation. Those that "went Viking" belonged to no specific paternal haplogroup, although the behavior seemed to be associated with populations from the North.

Those "on a Viking" had no elite class for the most part. The only time they even paid attention to such divisions were in the time of organized war. And the Norse "ruling class" (if we can even call it that) was solidly hg. I1. This has now changed to the "royal haplogroup" which is R1b centered.

A useful story to remember is one where a foreign king asked a boatload of Viking men which man was the leader (he wanted to broker a peace deal) ...they all looked at him in a state of confusion and each replied that he was in charge.

Ask the modern pirates off the coast of East Africa to whom each one pledges allegience... you might be surprised at the various answers.
 
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I have reasons to believe that Ostrogoths at least in name are the same with Austro+Goths in Germanic O(f)ster.
 

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