italian genetics

?:confused:
Bologna (Italian pronunciation: [boˈloɲɲa] ( listen); Emilian: Bulåggna pronounced [buˈləɲɲa]; Latin: Bononia) is the largest city (and the capital) of Emilia-Romagna Region in Northern Italy.

The I1 in NEI comes from west-finland satakunda lands. As per STRs
The J1a-410 comes from between north-ossetia and georgia lands and not the levant for NEI. As per STRs
The L-M20 only comes from the Ladins in Friuli and Veneto ( alpine areas )
G2a-P15 is the same in NEI as per other alpine and pyrennes areas
E-V13 in NEI comes from grecian thrace area ( ie North-east Greece)

I left all other data at work...maybe tomorrow if I remember

Bologna is Emilia, not Romagna.

Romagna starts in the eastern province of Bologna: Borgo Tossignano, Casalfiumanese, Castel del Rio, Dozza, Fontanelice, Imola, Mordano, Monterenzio (frazione Villa Sassonero, nella val Sillaro).
 
Actually a lot of E-V13 and J2b in southern Italy (Salento and Calabrian Sila) and along the Adriatic coast can be attributed to the Albanians who settled in those regions from the late Middle Ages onwards. These also happen to be the hotspots for both E1b1b and J2 in Italy. Obviously the Greeks also brought both haplogroups, but the Albanians were the biggest group of immigrants to southern Italy in the last 600 years and surely contributed to raise the frequencies of both haplogroups.

Salento is a Greek area, few Arbereshe overthere. And Arbereshe are quite different from Albanians according to Boattini A, Luiselli D, Sazzini M, Useli A, Tagarelli G, Pettener D.

Linking Italy and the Balkans. A Y-chromosome perspective from the Arbereshe of Calabria.

http://dienekes.blogspot.it/2010/07/y-chromosomes-of-arbereshe-from.html



The situation with J2 is also quite interesting as this is rarer in Arbereshe (3%) than Albanians (17%):

The scarcity of J2 chromosomes in the Arbereshe sample (1/40) is very difficult to explain, given that they are very common in both the Italian peninsula and the southern Balkans.


The source of J2 is less clear, and could be either the Albanization of Greeks (the only Balkan population with a sizeable J2 frequency) or remnants of Muslim Anatolians from Ottoman times. However, modern Albanians belong mainly to clade J2b, while Anatolians belong to J2a. Thus, I tend to dismiss the Anatolian connection.



 
The Etruscans came after the Italics and intermingled with them. The Etruscans probably brought various Y-haplogroups like E1b1b, G2a and J2. In any case, R1b-U152 is higher in northern Tuscany than in southern Tuscany, probably because the latter has a higher proportion of Etruscan lineages.

I agree with you. If there is still today in Tuscany an Etruscan genetic inheritance is in southern Tuscany. But southern Tuscany is much less populated than the northern one. So, if It's still alive this Etruscan legacy it has a little impact in the overall Tuscan population. I guess.
 
That Italy is a country historically and genetically divided with many internal differences is a very well-known fact. Albania is not genetically heterogeneous too, it's also a fact. National identity is not only a genetics matter.

I know that. But in Italy all blond people live in North. Dark skined one mostly in South. Genetically translated means R1B i n North and all dark, African originated haplogroups in South. Albania is Majority African originated haplogroups, and they are spread all over. So for a naked eye there is not skin differernce in Albania. In Italy is different. Because of that there are seperatist movements in Italy. I mentioned them. In Albania contrary there are unifying movements with Kosovo. So its pointless to my view to take R1b of North Italia, add R1b of south that appears to be different clade, divide by 2 , and say the avarage is R1b of Italy. Italy for scientific reasons should be studied by regions. Anyway, I know many Italians and myself I prefer the Suoth One.
 
Salento is a Greek area, few Arbereshe overthere. And Arbereshe are quite different from Albanians according to Boattini A, Luiselli D, Sazzini M, Useli A, Tagarelli G, Pettener D.

Linking Italy and the Balkans. A Y-chromosome perspective from the Arbereshe of Calabria.

http://dienekes.blogspot.it/2010/07/y-chromosomes-of-arbereshe-from.html



The situation with J2 is also quite interesting as this is rarer in Arbereshe (3%) than Albanians (17%):

The scarcity of J2 chromosomes in the Arbereshe sample (1/40) is very difficult to explain, given that they are very common in both the Italian peninsula and the southern Balkans.


The source of J2 is less clear, and could be either the Albanization of Greeks (the only Balkan population with a sizeable J2 frequency) or remnants of Muslim Anatolians from Ottoman times. However, modern Albanians belong mainly to clade J2b, while Anatolians belong to J2a. Thus, I tend to dismiss the Anatolian connection.




According to Italian census there are 200 000 Arbereshe in Italy currently. Their Dna would not matter in a sea of
of 60 mil Italians. The majority of Arbereshe reside in USA, Argentina or Brasil. So its pointless to say Arbereshe people altered the DNA makeup of Italy. Greeks have had the largest immpact.
 
According to Italian census there are 200 000 Arbereshe in Italy currently. Their Dna would not matter in a sea of 60 mil Italians. The majority of Arbereshe reside in USA, Argentina or Brasil. So its pointless to say Arbereshe people altered the DNA makeup of Italy. Greeks have had the largest immpact.

Yes, but the 200,000 Arbereshe are not floating in a sea of 60 mil. Italians, since they are not dispersed throughout Italy;

Historically the Arbereshe are confined (historic migration to the Kingdom of the two Sicilies) in regions [Calabria, Molise, Basilicata] of the south;

So the 200,000 Arbereshe are floating in a pool of 2.9 mil (confined regions) and 17.4 mil all South Italy + Sicily;

and its a bit more than 200,000:

Edwin E. Jacques
- The Albanians: an ethnic history from prehistoric times to the present (1995)
Currently, Mahir Domi in his statistical study of "Albanian Settlements in the World" (Liria 28 March 1980, 3) estimates that about 136,000 of these Arbereshe people in 55 villages still speak Albanian, whereas about 182,000 Arbereshe in other villages can no longer speak it......Yet it seems remarkable that after 500 years in Italy, so many Arbereshe living in their compact Albanian communities have not been altogether assimilated.

---

PS: The main reason the Lega Nord hates the south is not because of its Genetic diversity, its because of its Economic diversity;

gdp1.png
 
Yes, but the 200,000 Arbereshe are not floating in a sea of 60 mil. Italians, since they are not dispersed throughout Italy;

Historically the Arbereshe are confined (historic migration to the Kingdom of the two Sicilies) in regions [Calabria, Molise, Basilicata] of the south;

So the 200,000 Arbereshe are floating in a pool of 2.9 mil (confined regions) and 17.4 mil all South Italy + Sicily;

and its a bit more than 200,000:

Edwin E. Jacques
- The Albanians: an ethnic history from prehistoric times to the present (1995)
Currently, Mahir Domi in his statistical study of "Albanian Settlements in the World" (Liria 28 March 1980, 3) estimates that about 136,000 of these Arbereshe people in 55 villages still speak Albanian, whereas about 182,000 Arbereshe in other villages can no longer speak it......Yet it seems remarkable that after 500 years in Italy, so many Arbereshe living in their compact Albanian communities have not been altogether assimilated.

---

PS: The main reason the Lega Nord hates the south is not because of its Genetic diversity, its because of its Economic diversity;

gdp1.png

I have read in some topic here in Eupedia that there was a relation between GDP per capita and Haplogroups. The participants in the forum were saying somthing like: The higher the R1b in a certain population, the higher the GDP. The thread was started by Maciamo if I remember it correctly. You can search it for yourself and you will find it. So the economic complain Lega has against South is in fact a camuflaged genetic complain. South are geneticaly incapable for economic advance, so lets seperate. So no matter how you are justifying it, it comes down to: Haplogroups E+J+G+T are inferior compared to R1b. I mean what I am saying, I am not trying to chop balls.
 
No,
that is not possible -and i dont understand the connection;

Ancient Sicily =
Iberian
Sicani - Ligurian Siculi - Trojan Elymians (Thucydides) - plus
Phoenician Colonies and Greek Colonies

sic1.png


---

The Umbrians were Indo-Europeans, akin to the Indo-European Kelts

Cambrian Institute - The Cambrian Journal (1862)
from Caius Sempronius (De Divis. Ital.);
"The portion of the Apennines from the sources of the Tiber to the Nar, the Umbri inhabit, the oldest stock of the Old Gael, (Veteres Galli), as Augustus writes."
[Apenninum colunt Ligures, portionem vero Apennini inhabitant Umbri, prima veterum Gallorum proies, ut Augustus scribit]

James C. Prichard - Ethnography of Europe: Vol.III (1841)
Solinus informs us that Bocchus, a writer who has been several times cited by Pliny, reported the Umbri to have been descended from the ancient Gauls;
[Bocchus (affranchi lettre de Sylla) absolvit Gallorum veterum propaginem Umbros esse]
[Umbri, Italiae gens est, sed Gallorum veterum propago]

Luke Owen Pike - The English and their Origin (1866)
If now we consult the Umbrian language with a view of discovering whether it approaches more nearly the Gaelic or the Cymric type, we find, scanty though the evidence may be, that Umbrian differs from Latin in precisely the same manner in which Cymric and Greek differ from Latin. The Latin qu becomes, in Umbrian, as in Welsh and Greek, p: e.g. Latin quatuor, Umbrian petur, Welsh pedwar. The Welsh uch, uchel, appears as the Umbrian ucar, the Greek aixpog; the Welsh hwra as the Umbrian hri, the Greek aipsco;


Archaeologically - attested by the Bronze Age Terremare culture (akin to Swiss Lake Dwellings) and the subsequent cultures of the Indo-European Urnfield Culture Complex [Villanovan - Golasecca]


The Umbrian language [ITALIC Branch] is attested by its dozens of inscriptions and texts -
http://www.ancientscripts.com/umbrian.html

languages.png



Umbrian Alphabet (derived from the Etruscan runic system of the Cumaean Greek Alphabet)

umbrian.gif

Nobody, I agree (obviously) that the Umbrians spoke an Indo-European language, but you have a few other mistakes here:


- There is no etymological connection between "Gael" and "Galli". Kudos for pointing out that 19th century scholars believed that, but it's not correct. The word "Gael", in Old Irish "goídel", is an exonym from Brythonic (it is "Gwyddel" in modern Welsh), while the word "Galli" is a Latin exonym for the Gauls.


- Umbrian was an Italic language, not a Celtic one. Together with Latin, Oscan and a few other old Italic languages, it is descended from Proto-Italic (as in that "figure 4.2" that you quote. If you believe otherwise, I would like you to demonstrate the supposed commonalities of Umbrian with the Celtic languages (and different from other Italic languages), other than the shift /kw/ > /p/, which does not count because in addition to Brythonic and Gaulish, it occurs in Greek too, while not occuring in Celtiberian, Irish or Latin.

- The Etruscan alphabet was not a "runic" system. The Nordic runes may have been developed from the Etruscan alphabet (or from one of it's descendants used in the Alps), but the alphabet itself had nothing to do with runes. Instead, it was developed from an early variant of the Greek alphabet.
 
According to Italian census there are 200 000 Arbereshe in Italy currently. Their Dna would not matter in a sea of
of 60 mil Italians. The majority of Arbereshe reside in USA, Argentina or Brasil. So its pointless to say Arbereshe people altered the DNA makeup of Italy. Greeks have had the largest immpact.


you are funny.
are you counting all Albanians of Italy as Arberesh people?

Arberesh are 9 villages in Sicily and a total 23 at whole Itlay, some of them don't even have 1000 people,

Arberesh are not all the Albanians that liive in Italy.
Arberesh is pppptestified historical family connection.

what 200 000.
 
Yes, but the 200,000 Arbereshe are not floating in a sea of 60 mil. Italians, since they are not dispersed throughout Italy;

Historically the Arbereshe are confined (historic migration to the Kingdom of the two Sicilies) in regions [Calabria, Molise, Basilicata] of the south;

So the 200,000 Arbereshe are floating in a pool of 2.9 mil (confined regions) and 17.4 mil all South Italy + Sicily;

and its a bit more than 200,000:

Edwin E. Jacques
- The Albanians: an ethnic history from prehistoric times to the present (1995)
Currently, Mahir Domi in his statistical study of "Albanian Settlements in the World" (Liria 28 March 1980, 3) estimates that about 136,000 of these Arbereshe people in 55 villages still speak Albanian, whereas about 182,000 Arbereshe in other villages can no longer speak it......Yet it seems remarkable that after 500 years in Italy, so many Arbereshe living in their compact Albanian communities have not been altogether assimilated.

---

PS: The main reason the Lega Nord hates the south is not because of its Genetic diversity, its because of its Economic diversity;

gdp1.png

what 200 000 thousand

they are 9 villages in sicily, and a total of 23 with arbanites that moved there,
the rest are Albanians who migrated Italy,
Arberesh is a limited historical and family connection, that created 9 villages in sicily.

Albanopolis ppppppprobably is counting all Albanians of Italy.
 
I have read in some topic here in Eupedia that there was a relation between GDP per capita and Haplogroups. The participants in the forum were saying somthing like: The higher the R1b in a certain population, the higher the GDP. The thread was started by Maciamo if I remember it correctly. You can search it for yourself and you will find it. So the economic complain Lega has against South is in fact a camuflaged genetic complain. South are geneticaly incapable for economic advance, so lets seperate. So no matter how you are justifying it, it comes down to: Haplogroups E+J+G+T are inferior compared to R1b. I mean what I am saying, I am not trying to chop balls.

well, there is something fundamentally wrong with a region in which organised crime clans are both the largest employer and the richest "business" venture - and i dont think its genetic haplogroups;
the region is of course Southern Italy - and that scenario exists as such in Calabria (Ndrangheta) and Naples (Camorra)
and guess what they make tens of billions doing so; hows that for a booming economy;
and i guess you know from whom they adopted the blood feud - Vendetta

Its historically based, Brigandage in Southern Italy always prevailed - culminating in a 4 year war with the unification troops (1861-65) in which thousands were killed and Southern Italy was ravaged by the Unification troops;

Calabrese briganti - 19th cen.
calbri2.png
 
Nobody, I agree (obviously) that the Umbrians spoke an Indo-European language, but you have a few other mistakes here:

- There is no etymological connection between "Gael" and "Galli". Kudos for pointing out that 19th century scholars believed that, but it's not correct. The word "Gael", in Old Irish "goídel", is an exonym from Brythonic (it is "Gwyddel" in modern Welsh), while the word "Galli" is a Latin exonym for the Gauls.

Guess what, i 100% agree with you;
But you cant blame me for the Translation/Interpretation of the Cambrian Institute;

Caius Sempronius: - Apenninum colunt Ligures, portionem vero Apennini inhabitant Umbri, prima veterum Gallorum proies, ut Augustus scribit

Thats what its all about, the essence of my point;

i used the The Cambrian Journal as the source because it compiles all the ancient sources and has an english translation with it; but im not responsible for their own interpretations, and the latin quote refers to (as you pointed out) Galli = Gauls [Roman for kelts]; But i thought that would go without saying.......


- Umbrian was an Italic language, not a Celtic one. Together with Latin, Oscan and a few other old Italic languages, it is descended from Proto-Italic (as in that "figure 4.2" that you quote. If you believe otherwise, I would like you to demonstrate the supposed commonalities of Umbrian with the Celtic languages (and different from other Italic languages), other than the shift /kw/ > /p/, which does not count because in addition to Brythonic and Gaulish, it occurs in Greek too, while not occuring in Celtiberian, Irish or Latin.

Again 100% agree with you;
But where did i claim that Umbrian is a keltic language?
I always said that the Umbrians are Indo-Europeans akin to the Indo-European Kelts,
meaning: within the Indo-European family the Umbrians are closest to the Keltic Indo-Europeans [Archaeologically (to proto-Keltic) and Linguistically], but this doesnt imply (and i never implied) that the Umbrians are a Keltic Branch;

Instead in all the threads i posted about Umbrians, my stand was very clear (based on Historical documentation) that the Umbrians were the core (the all dominating factor) of the Indo-European ITALICS.

PS: I also dont consider Lepontic a Keltic language but an Umbrian-(italic) language with an Liguric strain (-Prof. Whatmough)

Instead, it was developed from an early variant of the Greek alphabet.

na was du nicht sagst, dann guck mal was da in den Klammern steht -

Whether its Runes or not.........none of my business,
some consider them runes based on Futhark developing out of it, but for all i care lets call it whatever you want them to be.
 
what 200 000 thousand

they are 9 villages in sicily, and a total of 23 with arbanites that moved there,
the rest are Albanians who migrated Italy,
Arberesh is a limited historical and family connection, that created 9 villages in sicily.

Albanopolis ppppppprobably is counting all Albanians of Italy.

traditions alive.The full list of the Arbëresh Community in Italy is still the following:[6]




  • Ethnographic map: 1859 depicting the Albanian population in green




  • Albanian ethno-linguistic territories




  • Distribution of Albanians outside Albania

[h=3]Arbëresh diaspora[edit] Take a look at the list. Close to 60 villages. Associated maps are available too.[/h]
 
well, there is something fundamentally wrong with a region in which organised crime clans are both the largest employer and the richest "business" venture - and i dont think its genetic haplogroups;
the region is of course Southern Italy - and that scenario exists as such in Calabria (Ndrangheta) and Naples (Camorra)
and guess what they make tens of billions doing so; hows that for a booming economy;
and i guess you know from whom they adopted the blood feud - Vendetta

Its historically based, Brigandage in Southern Italy always prevailed - culminating in a 4 year war with the unification troops (1861-65) in which thousands were killed and Southern Italy was ravaged by the Unification troops;

Calabrese briganti - 19th cen.

calbri2.png
Its hard to believe that 18 million South Italians are Bandits as you are trying to say. I have been there in some places. Its very mountanians place. Farming land is sparse and overpopulated compared with North. Have you not seen where they build their houses? In the top of Rocks. With one thing in mind, tosave the farmland. Being a mountainans place makes everything difficult. Also the South is far from developed markets.
 
Arberesh is a story from 1000 AD,

they were in Italy with general Maniakis, they came to Balkans and revolt against Con/polis when Maniakis lost its properties,
they were defeated in Thessaloniki so they went to South Greece, next to Palaiologos and Mani,
they establish few villages there among the dedication to their leader-general Maniaki.
in 1534 they followed Sicilians of Andrea Doria fleet to Sicily (Hora) and ottomans with Barbarosa burn the castle given to them (Κορωνη)
so they settled in Italy in 2 major parts,


1. Sicily in around Hora Χωρα and they had piana dei Greci which musolini change the name of village and piana at 1939.
2. Calabria Ai dimitri Corone (Αγιος Δημητριος Ο κορωνης. cathedral of corone in Greece,) which Musolini also change to Santo Demitri


THE REST ARE NOT ARBERESH. THE REST ARE ALBANIAN OR ARBANITES
You see not all have the priviledge or the curse to be Arberesh
All Albanians of Italy are not Arberesh althought that maybe suits your propaganda.

Andrea Doria, admiral from Genova took 2000 people among them the Arberesh.
how come from 1534 to 2013 they become 200 000????

even with 10 kids each generation can not become.

in their songs the word Albania did not existed until 1939 (Musolini) Neither Kastrioti's story.
cause they never went there.
their genetic autosomal are almost Italian (dienekes) which is a prove that they were familiar with Italy even before Maniakis revolt.

their oldest song, a kind of anthem spokes only about Korone and Muslim dogs (kien κυων)

the rest are your imagination, or your effort to create impressions.
 
Arberesh is a story from 1000 AD,

they were in Italy with general Maniakis, they came to Balkans and revolt against Con/polis when Maniakis lost its properties,
they were defeated in Thessaloniki so they went to South Greece, next to Palaiologos and Mani,
they establish few villages there among the dedication to their leader-general Maniaki.
in 1534 they followed Venicians and ottomans burn the castle given to them (Κορωνη)
so they settled in Italy in 2 major parts,


1. Sicily in around Hora Χωρα and they had piana dei Greci which musolini change the name of village and piana at 1939.
2. Calabria Ai dimitri Corone (Αγιος Δημητριος Ο κορωνης. cathedral of corone in Greece,) which Musolini also change to Santo Demitri
Ai Giorgi Greco (Αι Γιωργη) which Musolini also change to Santo
they are 9 major villages, with max 23 smaller satelite, like Magia (magister = for supremes, for mayor)

THE REST ARE NOT ARBERESH. THE REST ARE ALBANIAN.

the biggest of all was Hora in 1930 after Greek word Χωρα, so count them,

in their songs the word Albania did not existed until 1939 (Musolini) Neither Kastrioti's story.
cause they never went there.
their genetic autosomal are almost Italian (dienekes) which is a prove that they were familiar with Italy even before Maniakis revolt.

their oldest song, a kind of anthem spokes only about Korone and Muslim dogs (kien)

Hora is a Greek word. And Maniakis went to Sicily with Vikings, and Northern Europeans troops. No Arbereshe with Maniakis. Because Arbereshe went to Italy not before 1463, and Arbereshe were Arvanites, coming from Greece in many cases.

In south Italy there were also medieval migrations of Waldensians (France, Piedmont), of Lombards, of Franco-Provençal people, of Britons, of Normans as We know. There were also migrations of Slavs (called Schiavoni) and Greeks, escaping both from Ottomans Turks.
 
George Maniakes (Greek: Γεώργιος Μανιάκης, transliterated as Georgios Maniaces, Maniakis, or Maniaches, Italian: Giorgio Maniace) (died 1043) was a prominent Byzantine Greek general during the 11th century, he was the catepan of Italy in 1042. He is known as Gyrgir in Scandinavian sagas. He is popularly said to have been extremely tall and well built, almost a giant.

Maniakes first became prominent during a campaign in 1030–1031, when the Byzantine Empire was defeated at Aleppo but went on to capture Edessa from the Seljuk Turks. His greatest achievement was the partial reconquest of Sicily from the Arabs beginning in 1038. Here, he was assisted by the Varangian Guard, which was at that time led by Harald Hardrada, who later became king of Norway. There were also Norman mercenaries with him, under William de Hauteville, who won his nickname Iron Arm by defeating the emir of Syracuse in single combat. However, he soon ostracised his admiral, Stephen, whose wife was the sister of John the Eunuch, the highest ranking man at court, and, by publicly humiliating the leader of the Lombard contingent, Arduin, he caused them to desert him, with the Normans and Norsemen. In response, he was recalled by the emperor Michael IV, also brother-in-law of Stephen. Although the Arabs soon took the island back, Maniakes' successes there later inspired the Normans to invade Sicily themselves.

No Arbereshe people with George Maniakis, known as Gyrgir in Scandinavian sagas.
 
Arberesh is a story from 1000 AD,

they were in Italy with general Maniakis, they came to Balkans and revolt against Con/polis when Maniakis lost its properties,
they were defeated in Thessaloniki so they went to South Greece, next to Palaiologos and Mani,
they establish few villages there among the dedication to their leader-general Maniaki.
in 1534 they followed Sicilians of Andrea Doria fleet to Sicily (Hora) and ottomans with Barbarosa burn the castle given to them (Κορωνη)
so they settled in Italy in 2 major parts,


1. Sicily in around Hora Χωρα and they had piana dei Greci which musolini change the name of village and piana at 1939.
2. Calabria Ai dimitri Corone (Αγιος Δημητριος Ο κορωνης. cathedral of corone in Greece,) which Musolini also change to Santo Demitri


THE REST ARE NOT ARBERESH. THE REST ARE ALBANIAN OR ARBANITES
You see not all have the priviledge or the curse to be Arberesh
All Albanians of Italy are not Arberesh althought that maybe suits your propaganda.

Andrea Doria, admiral from Genova took 2000 people among them the Arberesh.
how come from 1534 to 2013 they become 200 000????

even with 10 kids each generation can not become.

in their songs the word Albania did not existed until 1939 (Musolini) Neither Kastrioti's story.
cause they never went there.
their genetic autosomal are almost Italian (dienekes) which is a prove that they were familiar with Italy even before Maniakis revolt.

their oldest song, a kind of anthem spokes only about Korone and Muslim dogs (kien κυων)

the rest are your imagination, or your effort to create impressions.
Pianna degli Grecci was the name given to them by Sicilians since they practised orthodox version of christianity.
They did not call themselves Grecci. They called themselves Arberesh. This was the name of the country until the Ottoman conquest. We do not call ourself Albanians. Foreigners call us Albanians, so its an exonim. If you go today in Albanian you will not hear the word Albania either.
You are very misinformed person. I don't beleive that you are a provocatour either since I have heard same story by other greeks too. I don't know what kind of stories you read. Italian governmet recognises them as a minority. They have their Albanian schools, university and Klergy. I am not aware that greek minority is recognised in Italy. I know there are still some pocket of Greeks there. Yes, the numbers of Arbereshi in Italy is estimated 200 000. Sources say it could be twice that number since many have left their villages and gone to big cities where they are assimilated. Huge numbers of Arbereshi reside in USA and Argentina. What else can I say? There is absolutly no connection between Arberesh and Greeks
 
Arberesh is a story from 1000 AD,

they were in Italy with general Maniakis, they came to Balkans and revolt against Con/polis when Maniakis lost its properties,
they were defeated in Thessaloniki so they went to South Greece, next to Palaiologos and Mani,
they establish few villages there among the dedication to their leader-general Maniaki.
in 1534 they followed Sicilians of Andrea Doria fleet to Sicily (Hora) and ottomans with Barbarosa burn the castle given to them (Κορωνη)
so they settled in Italy in 2 major parts,


1. Sicily in around Hora Χωρα and they had piana dei Greci which musolini change the name of village and piana at 1939.
2. Calabria Ai dimitri Corone (Αγιος Δημητριος Ο κορωνης. cathedral of corone in Greece,) which Musolini also change to Santo Demitri


THE REST ARE NOT ARBERESH. THE REST ARE ALBANIAN OR ARBANITES
You see not all have the priviledge or the curse to be Arberesh
All Albanians of Italy are not Arberesh althought that maybe suits your propaganda.

Andrea Doria, admiral from Genova took 2000 people among them the Arberesh.
how come from 1534 to 2013 they become 200 000????

even with 10 kids each generation can not become.

in their songs the word Albania did not existed until 1939 (Musolini) Neither Kastrioti's story.
cause they never went there.
their genetic autosomal are almost Italian (dienekes) which is a prove that they were familiar with Italy even before Maniakis revolt.

their oldest song, a kind of anthem spokes only about Korone and Muslim dogs (kien κυων)

the rest are your imagination, or your effort to create impressions.
Santa Claus was Greek. That's what Greek who make propaganda will say.
 
Pianna degli Grecci was the name given to them by Sicilians since they practised orthodox version of christianity.
They did not call themselves Grecci. They called themselves Arberesh. This was the name of the country until the Ottoman conquest. We do not call ourself Albanians. Foreigners call us Albanians, so its an exonim. If you go today in Albanian you will not hear the word Albania either.
You are very misinformed person. I don't beleive that you are a provocatour either since I have heard same story by other greeks too. I don't know what kind of stories you read. Italian governmet recognises them as a minority. They have their Albanian schools, university and Klergy. I am not aware that greek minority is recognised in Italy. I know there are still some pocket of Greeks there. Yes, the numbers of Arbereshi in Italy is estimated 200 000. Sources say it could be twice that number since many have left their villages and gone to big cities where they are assimilated. Huge numbers of Arbereshi reside in USA and Argentina. What else can I say? There is absolutly no connection between Arberesh and Greeks

now called Piana degli Albanesi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piana_degli_Albanesi

means ...plains of the albanians
 

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