Genetic history of Italy

Maciamo

Veteran member
Admin
Messages
9,970
Reaction score
3,273
Points
113
Location
Lothier
Ethnic group
Italo-celto-germanic
I have started working on a new project: the Genetic History of Italy.

The first section includes a summary of the various peoples who came to settle in Italy since the Palaeolithic and the Y-DNA haplogroup that they (probably) brought with them. This section isn't finished yet. I still have the whole migration period and Middle Ages to add.

The second section is a table showing the Y-DNA frequencies for each region of Italy based on the 4000+ samples I collected from the studies published to date.

I will also add haplogroup maps of Italy side by side to make comparisons easy.
 
wait are u saying J1, J2, and e1b1b came to italy in neloithic i dont thing there is any good evidence for that the fact the J1, j2, and eb1b1 and centered in greece and italy show it is from greco roman times and that greeks and italiens have extremly high amounts of mid eastern in austomnal DNA tests and that J1, J2, and E1b1b are popular in teh same areas of europe tehy probably came in the greco roman age

when u said I2a1 is estimated as 20,000 years old and I2a1 and I2a1b quickley split that is more like what i was excepting because i had heard estimates for I2a1a m26 at only 8,000 years old that did not make sense to me because we have two 5,000 year old m26 samples in France and it seems i2a1 was already spread out in all of western Europe(except Germany, Britian, Ireland) before the Neolithic age then g2a invaded I2a1a about 10,000-6,000ybp so I2a1a and I2a1b may have split almost 20,000 years ago that means I2a1a may have been dominte in western Europe 15,000ybp same with I2a1b in eastern Europe

I think the Y DNA for europe 10,000- 15,000ybp for France, Spain, and Italy mainly I2a1a with possibly a little I1a1, I1a3, I1a4, and I1b, and some I2a2. for central Europe maybe also britian mainly I1a1, I1a3, I1a4, and I1b, or posibly I2a2 was the main group and then also a little I2a1a, for all of eastern Europe mainly I2a1b, with some I1a1, I1a3, I1a4, and I1b, for Scandinavia just about only I1a2 and some I1a. I have heard about C7 and F 96 in Europe being from the first settlement over 50,000 years ago but what if F 96 is not just found in Europe and maybe it came in the Neolithic age i think that F that was negative for all of F;s descendants in LBK Germany 7,000ybp is evidence it came in Neolithic maybe C7 is if it is old enough and if it is just foudn in Europe maybe C7 and F 96 did exist but i doubt they where that popular


and Y DNA subclades did not complete settle Europe till only 15,000ybp and since there is a good chance I* originated around Caucus and the Iraq just 30,000-40,000ybp maybe the I people had a last glacial refuge and then resettled Europe but if I originated in Europe then u can say they came to Europe as far back as 45,000-50,000ybp

also modern Italien people in globe13 austomnal DNA if u take away the 20.5% west asian, 14.3% southwest asian they would probably have over 50% Mediterranean like Iberian do Italians i think are mainly descended from Neolithic Europeans like Otzie we are lucky Sardinia people exist because they literally are Neolithic western Europeans that is why they have 70% med they are probably what Italians where till the R1b S28 Italic speakers invasion which brought more north European and inter marriage with mid easterns and north Africans in greco roman age since the original European austomnal DNA group most tests call it north European was so unpopular in austomnal DNA we have of Neolithic farmers in Europe i think the G2a austomnal DNA med farmers did not peacefully spread farming they nearly killed off the Y DNA I and austomnal DNA north Euro hunter gathers and Itlaiens, Iberian, and sardines are a direct result of that
 
maybe u can also mention austomnal DNA and that Italy has alot of mid eastern blood that most likely came in greco roman times and that Italiens are mainly decended of Neloithic people it seems u skipped that stuff. Hopfully u can do this for more countries and region in Europe
 
Wouldn't you say people that Celtic tribes of Bronze and Iron Age of Europe were very similar by genetic to Italic "indoeuropean" tribes, for example to LATINS, considering R1b?
 
Wouldn't you say people that Celtic tribes of Bronze and Iron Age of Europe were very similar by genetic to Italic "indoeuropean" tribes, for example to LATINS, considering R1b?

the halleste celts ( the main celts romans and greeks knew) came from the urnfield culture so did the villnovan culture which where the first italic speakers that migrated to italy from switzerland 3,200ybp. The Italics and halleste Celts had r1b s28 and a similar langauge but geneticalley they where not very related the original italic speakers where genetically identical to Celtic people when they migrated to italy the quickley inter married so even though itaics had a similar language and same y dna as celts overall they where not that related
 
Wouldn't you say people that Celtic tribes of Bronze and Iron Age of Europe were very similar by genetic to Italic "indoeuropean" tribes, for example to LATINS, considering R1b?

Yes, of course. The Italics and the Celts were close cousins. Both descended from the Unetice and Tumulus cultures.
 
Yes, of course. The Italics and the Celts were close cousins. Both descended from the Unetice and Tumulus cultures.

yes by Language and Y DNA R1b S28 Italiens and Celts are close cousins but i think u know maciamo that Italians have almost no light hair and eyes while Celts where know for those features by Romans. since Italians are more dark haired and eyed and white too olive skinned while Celts are light haired and eyed and very light skinned there is no way they are close genetic relatives. The orignal Italic speakers lived in later celtic terriotory they would have been geneticalley identical to swiss people or just people that live in the area they came from orignalley just when they migrated to Italy they inter married with the locales extremely quickly they kept y dna r1b s28 and the italic language but most of their blood came from the native farmers. So then when Italy became connected with greece and the civilized world they inter married like crazy with mid eastern people but id ont know about Greeks maybe that is why Y DNA j1, J2, and E1b1b v13 are so popular in greece and Italy and surrounding areas but not the rest of Europe also Italiens in globe13 austomnal DNA test have over 20% west asian and over 15% southwest asian most europeans have less than 6% west Asian and less than 1% southwest Asian only Italians, Greeks and surrounding countires have higher this means Italians have a significant amount of mid eastern heritage which came in greco Roman age. in austomnal DNA the north European part of Italiens came from the hunter gathers who had Y DNA I2a1a that where conquered by G2a (probably not J1, J2 and E1b1b farmers). The Mediterranean in Italians which is their biggest part in the globe13 test comes from y DNA G2a farmers like Otzie since Italians have mainly Mediterranean they probably have mainly Neolithic ancestry. The west Asian came in greco roman age some of the southwest Asian came in Neolithic and some in greco roman age.

i dont think u should put on the genetic history of Italy that Italians are close relatives to Celts that is not true only their language and direct male linage is but most of their blood is unrelated
 
I have started working on a new project: the Genetic History of Italy.

The first section includes a summary of the various peoples who came to settle in Italy since the Palaeolithic and the Y-DNA haplogroup that they (probably) brought with them. This section isn't finished yet. I still have the whole migration period and Middle Ages to add.

The second section is a table showing the Y-DNA frequencies for each region of Italy based on the 4000+ samples I collected from the studies published to date.

I will also add haplogroup maps of Italy side by side to make comparisons easy.

Why is there so little Trentino/altoadage/south tyrol numbers in your link, when there have been 4 major tests that I recall , 2006, 2007, 2008 and an earlier one?

South Tyrol three microisolates (MICROS) Genetic study, Pattaro et al. 2007 (1175 participants)
South Tyrol Isolates Value for Genetic Dissection of Complex Diseases, Marroni, Pichler et al. 2006 (403 males)
South Tyrol isolates mtDNA Y-DNA - Ladin communities, Thomas et al. 2007 (263 men
South Tyrolean Isolated Populations Y-DNA (UEP), mtDNA, and 8 Alu Polymorphisms, Pichler, Mueller, Stefanov et al. 2006 (277 samples)

Below is the break-up of the Pichler test
R1b... n=91 = 47%
G+I... n = 60 = 31%
E3b... n = 14 = 7%
R1a*...n = 10 = 5%
L ....n = 4 = 2%
T ...n = 8 = 4%
E3a ...n = 2 = 1%
R1a1...n = 4 = 2%

the Thomas test , below
R1b ...n = 131 = 50%
G+I ...n = 54 = 20%
J ...n = 35 = 13%
L ...n = 9 = 3%
E ...n = 18 = 7%
R1a....n = 13 = 5%
T ...n = 6 = 2%

Surely, regardless of language they are still Italian even if they speak Ladin or Austrian
 
yes by Language and Y DNA R1b S28 Italiens and Celts are close cousins but i think u know maciamo that Italians have almost no light hair and eyes while Celts where know for those features by Romans. since Italians are more dark haired and eyed and white too olive skinned while Celts are light haired and eyed and very light skinned there is no way they are close genetic relatives. The orignal Italic speakers lived in later celtic terriotory they would have been geneticalley identical to swiss people or just people that live in the area they came from orignalley just when they migrated to Italy they inter married with the locales extremely quickly they kept y dna r1b s28 and the italic language but most of their blood came from the native farmers. So then when Italy became connected with greece and the civilized world they inter married like crazy with mid eastern people but id ont know about Greeks maybe that is why Y DNA j1, J2, and E1b1b v13 are so popular in greece and Italy and surrounding areas but not the rest of Europe also Italiens in globe13 austomnal DNA test have over 20% west asian and over 15% southwest asian most europeans have less than 6% west Asian and less than 1% southwest Asian only Italians, Greeks and surrounding countires have higher this means Italians have a significant amount of mid eastern heritage which came in greco Roman age. in austomnal DNA the north European part of Italiens came from the hunter gathers who had Y DNA I2a1a that where conquered by G2a (probably not J1, J2 and E1b1b farmers). The Mediterranean in Italians which is their biggest part in the globe13 test comes from y DNA G2a farmers like Otzie since Italians have mainly Mediterranean they probably have mainly Neolithic ancestry. The west Asian came in greco roman age some of the southwest Asian came in Neolithic and some in greco roman age.

i dont think u should put on the genetic history of Italy that Italians are close relatives to Celts that is not true only their language and direct male linage is but most of their blood is unrelated

nonsense

The Italians differ from each other to major extremes genetics, eye colour, hair colour etc like the french people differ with each other ...see the other papers on the other link.
The celtic homeland is the alps, the Lepontic language was the birth place of celtic language......who do you think lived there?


your nonsense about eye colour, hair colour, skin colour is very stupid.
explain why the highest percentage of ancient blue eyed people are in the alps?
explain why the highest percentage of ancient green eyed people are in hungaria?
explain why the highest percentage of red haired people are from udmurt?
 
look at italians such as riccardo montolivo, emmanuele giaccherini, claudio marchisio, daniele de rossi, francesco totti, etc. some 50-62% of italian males on a national level are R1b (a very atlantic/west european genetic marker commonly assoiated with insular celtic(british isles)/gallic/germanic influence. some 40-50% of italian women are H alone, a very european mtdna marker, without couting about 12% U as well (not much V at all.) most of the italian r1b is r-S28 which peaks in north-central italy, switzerland and eastern france. what sets them apart though is the higher neolithic, agriculturally introduced lineages. southern italy has about 20-25%some areas as high as or higher than 30% j2 from the fertile crescent (mesopotamia), there is 15-20% e3b (dominates north africa ), most of it being e-v13 from greek colonizations of magna grecia. there's also about 15% haplogroup G in southern italy, a continental high along with northern sardinia. R1b drops to 25-30% in the south.
 
the northern half of italy is celtic influence of the gallic stock and the southern half is greco-anatolian (greco-turkish or greco-middle eastern).
 
nonsense

The Italians differ from each other to major extremes genetics, eye colour, hair colour etc like the french people differ with each other ...see the other papers on the other link.
The celtic homeland is the alps, the Lepontic language was the birth place of celtic language......who do you think lived there?


your nonsense about eye colour, hair colour, skin colour is very stupid.
explain why the highest percentage of ancient blue eyed people are in the alps?
explain why the highest percentage of ancient green eyed people are in hungaria?
explain why the highest percentage of red haired people are from udmurt?

the romans said themselves the gauls where faired haired and very pale skinned while romans and italiens where dark haired and olive skinned even romans saw the differnce and basicalley if u go by real percentages italy has much lower amounts of light hair and eyes than most of europe that is a fact. The celts where more of a light haired people that is also a fact so to me it makes sense that Italians and Celts cant be very close relatives also their only connection is y dna and language i thought everyone would agree with me and move on to more important issues about genetics of italy on that simple fact there is no arguing about it. most blue eyes are found in Scandinavia, baltic region, and northwestern russia i know where u are getting that info from it is because some experts belive the genes for blue eyes orignated in the ancestral populaton of people ine the alps but many dis agree that does not mean people in the alps have the most blue eyes and that does not help ur argument about connecting Celts with Italians because people in the alps are probably more descended from gauls than anyone


i don't see how my hair color eye color stuff is nonsense if someone has black skin and another has white skin i doubt their related it is a good way to figure that stuff out and with Celts and Italians it is obvious and ancient Romans would agree with me Maciamo u got to back me up on this i mean this is common sense

even in austomnal DNA Italians have higher amounts of west asian, southwest asian, and Mediterranean than central Europeans and defintley than ancient gauls it is common sense celts are not close relatives to italiens only by y dna and language.
 
the northern half of italy is celtic influence of the gallic stock and the southern half is greco-anatolian (greco-turkish or greco-middle eastern).

i think it is more complicated all of Italians period are very related and from the same stock just over time different regions have inter married with diff people. The main ancestors of Italians period i think are Neolithic Italians. Northern Italy probably has a little more swiss or alps blood than the rest of italy because the first italic speakers came from around the alps and migrated to italy about 3,200ybp but they put more genetic input into northern italy Then Gauls that setlled some parts of northern italy came from either modern france or around the alps but i doubt the celts make a significant amount of ancestry for northern Italians for southern italy it is a fact they have more mid eastern blood Sicilians have the most over all central italiens are probably in between.

overall Italians are probably mainly from Neolithic Italians sardine are probably who Italians where 8,000ybp because sardines have much much less mid eastern blood than the rest of italy they are the closest relatives in DNA we have of Otzie a farmer from alps Italy from 5,300ybp and the austomnal DNA percentages of sardines are teh closest to what we have of Neolithic Europeans even though i guess people kind off think of sardines as sperate from Italians they are actulley more Italian than people in italy.
 
look at italians such as riccardo montolivo, emmanuele giaccherini, claudio marchisio, daniele de rossi, francesco totti, etc. some 50-62% of italian males on a national level are R1b (a very atlantic/west european genetic marker commonly assoiated with insular celtic(british isles)/gallic/germanic influence. some 40-50% of italian women are H alone, a very european mtdna marker, without couting about 12% U as well (not much V at all.) most of the italian r1b is r-S28 which peaks in north-central italy, switzerland and eastern france. what sets them apart though is the higher neolithic, agriculturally introduced lineages. southern italy has about 20-25%some areas as high as or higher than 30% j2 from the fertile crescent (mesopotamia), there is 15-20% e3b (dominates north africa ), most of it being e-v13 from greek colonizations of magna grecia. there's also about 15% haplogroup G in southern italy, a continental high along with northern sardinia. R1b drops to 25-30% in the south.
u need to remember y dna like r1b s28 is just a direct linage u ca be 99,.999999999999% black but have y dna r1b 28 and mtdna H Y DNA R1b in western europe is from recent proto germanic italo celtic invasion just 5,000ybp so what it italiens have alot of r1b it is because they speak a indo european language also y dna j1, and j2 did not come in teh neloithic i explinaed it in this thread http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28810-Rome-spread-Middle-Eastern-and-North-African-Y-DNA J1, J2, and most E1b1b V13 was spread in greco roman age that is why they are distributed the same way in europe and are centered in Greece and Italy. overall Italiens are probably mainly descended from a sardine like Neolithic people the reason why i say sardine like is they literally are a relic of Neolithic Italy they have been genticalley isolated for over 5,000 years their austomnal DNA is nearly identical to what we have of Neolithic Europeans modern Italians have inter married in the last 5,000 years mainly with mid eastern people so sardines don't have that mid eastern side also Italians have inter married with central Europeans like Celts and the first Italic speakers which sardines have not well not in a significant way.
 
the romans said themselves the gauls where faired haired and very pale skinned while romans and italiens where dark haired and olive skinned even romans saw the differnce and basicalley if u go by real percentages italy has much lower amounts of light hair and eyes than most of europe that is a fact. The celts where more of a light haired people that is also a fact so to me it makes sense that Italians and Celts cant be very close relatives also their only connection is y dna and language i thought everyone would agree with me and move on to more important issues about genetics of italy on that simple fact there is no arguing about it. most blue eyes are found in Scandinavia, baltic region, and northwestern russia i know where u are getting that info from it is because some experts belive the genes for blue eyes orignated in the ancestral populaton of people ine the alps but many dis agree that does not mean people in the alps have the most blue eyes and that does not help ur argument about connecting Celts with Italians because people in the alps are probably more descended from gauls than anyone


i don't see how my hair color eye color stuff is nonsense if someone has black skin and another has white skin i doubt their related it is a good way to figure that stuff out and with Celts and Italians it is obvious and ancient Romans would agree with me Maciamo u got to back me up on this i mean this is common sense

even in austomnal DNA Italians have higher amounts of west asian, southwest asian, and Mediterranean than central Europeans and defintley than ancient gauls it is common sense celts are not close relatives to italiens only by y dna and language.

nonsense

skin colour comes by natural change over time to allow the body the acceptance of vitamin D, the further you are away fro the equator the lighter the skin. Another change is protection from the sun , so Eskimos have darker skin as the ultra violet rays burns the skin due to reflection from water or ice.....the body adapts to protect itself.

west-asian is in all of europe except in the baltic states. celts have west-asian as well. british have west-asian.

print what autosomal you have? I want to see it.


Blue eyes - It does not mean that alpine people have the most blues , but genetics state they have the ancient original blue eyes.

I must say you do not know what an Italian is...........you probably also think all french are the same, all germans are the same.etc...........IF you know genetics, you will know there is no nationality in genetics, you cannot distinguish what is what race based on national borders.
 
u need to remember y dna like r1b s28 is just a direct linage u ca be 99,.999999999999% black but have y dna r1b 28 and mtdna H Y DNA R1b in western europe is from recent proto germanic italo celtic invasion just 5,000ybp so what it italiens have alot of r1b it is because they speak a indo european language also y dna j1, and j2 did not come in teh neloithic i explinaed it in this thread http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28810-Rome-spread-Middle-Eastern-and-North-African-Y-DNA J1, J2, and most E1b1b V13 was spread in greco roman age that is why they are distributed the same way in europe and are centered in Greece and Italy. overall Italiens are probably mainly descended from a sardine like Neolithic people the reason why i say sardine like is they literally are a relic of Neolithic Italy they have been genticalley isolated for over 5,000 years their austomnal DNA is nearly identical to what we have of Neolithic Europeans modern Italians have inter married in the last 5,000 years mainly with mid eastern people so sardines don't have that mid eastern side also Italians have inter married with central Europeans like Celts and the first Italic speakers which sardines have not well not in a significant way.

There was no germanics in southern germany or alps or italy until after the fall of the Roman empire ( unless they where slaves of the Romans ), so logically, R1b is alpine and Mediterranean in mixture once it entered Europe and settled down.
Your 50-70 % of R1b would easily show a Mediterranean, west-asian, near-east autosomal,............you might be greek from Marseilles, France, when the Greeks founded the city
 
okay zanipoli we dont know why people have differnt skin colors that thing with vitmin D is the most belivble theory we have so far also i was talking about modern people in the area and yes they do have alot of german blood skin color, hair color, and eye color are very important if people have differnt colors i doubt they are related and i dont think ll italiens are teh same i just look at real records done on 1,000,000's of italiens when it comes to hair color and eye color and i look at what ancient romans said about themselves and i also go off what modern people say it is a fact italiens are more dark haired and eyed than almost all europeans including Celts stop arguing on that simply fact

u are coming to quick conclusions R1b is not alphine R1b is very complicated it exists in many differnt types of people when u are talking about R1b in western europe like italy it comes from proto Germanic Italo Celtic speakers who came to western europe 5,000ybp they would have had mainly north european austomnal DNA they also spread red hair in western europe they where not Mediterranean also people in teh area today of teh indo european homeland have over 65% north european in globe13 austomnal DNA i have no idea where u are getting r1b is alphine or Mediterranean it did not arrive in those areas till at the earliest 4,500-4,000ybp


yes most europeans have a little west Asian but Italians and greeks have much much much more italens and greeks have 20-24% west asian most of Europe has 3-6%, Italians and Greeks have 15-18% southwest asian the rest of europe uselley has 1 - 5% the areas around greece and italy like Bulgaria and yugoslavia also have high amounts of southwest asian and west asian eastern Europeans typically have different austomnal dna than western Europeans for example western european have 30-45% med people in eastern europe have 20-25% on average and much more north Europeans eastern Europeans also uselly above 4% southwest asian most western Europeans have less than 1.5%

here is where i get y austomnal dna info https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadF9CLUJnTUdSbkVJaDR2UkRtUE9kaUE#gid=2
 
can we stop arguing about simple stuff that are just facts like Italians have darker pigmentation than most europeans including celts, Italians and celts are close relatives in y dna and language but not in blood, iTaliens, greeks, and people around them have much much higher amounts of west asian and southwest asian in austomnal dna, R1b in western europe came 5,000ybp with the proto Germanic italo celtic speakers.

can u guys please stop arguing about this stuff they are simple facts lets get down into the important stuff like are Italians mainly descend from Neolithic Italians or latter people that came in the bronze age i think defintley neloithic. Is there any signs of a ice age refuge early Europeans took in italy 20,000ybp. Do Italians have alot of Mesolithic and Paleolithic european blood or is most from people who came in the Neolithic, are sardine people the truest Italians because they have not significantly inter married with anyone in the last 8,000 years at least, who are Italians closest relatives in Europe, what Y DNA did Neolithic, Mesolithic, and Paleolithic Italians have

these are just examples of important things we can debate on
 
okay zanipoli we dont know why people have differnt skin colors that thing with vitmin D is the most belivble theory we have so far also i was talking about modern people in the area and yes they do have alot of german blood skin color, hair color, and eye color are very important if people have differnt colors i doubt they are related and i dont think ll italiens are teh same i just look at real records done on 1,000,000's of italiens when it comes to hair color and eye color and i look at what ancient romans said about themselves and i also go off what modern people say it is a fact italiens are more dark haired and eyed than almost all europeans including Celts stop arguing on that simply fact

u are coming to quick conclusions R1b is not alphine R1b is very complicated it exists in many differnt types of people when u are talking about R1b in western europe like italy it comes from proto Germanic Italo Celtic speakers who came to western europe 5,000ybp they would have had mainly north european austomnal DNA they also spread red hair in western europe they where not Mediterranean also people in teh area today of teh indo european homeland have over 65% north european in globe13 austomnal DNA i have no idea where u are getting r1b is alphine or Mediterranean it did not arrive in those areas till at the earliest 4,500-4,000ybp


yes most europeans have a little west Asian but Italians and greeks have much much much more italens and greeks have 20-24% west asian most of Europe has 3-6%, Italians and Greeks have 15-18% southwest asian the rest of europe uselley has 1 - 5% the areas around greece and italy like Bulgaria and yugoslavia also have high amounts of southwest asian and west asian eastern Europeans typically have different austomnal dna than western Europeans for example western european have 30-45% med people in eastern europe have 20-25% on average and much more north Europeans eastern Europeans also uselly above 4% southwest asian most western Europeans have less than 1.5%

here is where i get y austomnal dna info https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadF9CLUJnTUdSbkVJaDR2UkRtUE9kaUE#gid=2

-skin colour has nothing to do with genetics.

- where do you see Roman hair colour? Is it today, did they visit a beauty salon?. The ancient Romans bought in 1M slaves to Rome, which hair colour was painted on the walls?

- R1b has zero to do with ancient germanic people

- Alpine people have zero to do with ancient germanic people

- your term proto-germanic is wrong for the alps....its proto-celtic for the alps

- Unless you are neanderthal then all european people came from africa, middleast or asia . thats a fact..........genetic history does not begin at the fall of the Roman empire can we be clear on this.
 
-skin colour has nothing to do with genetics.

skin color is in your dna why do u think europeans are white please stop with these non sense arguments

- where do you see Roman hair colour? Is it today, did they visit a beauty salon?. The ancient Romans bought in 1M slaves to Rome, which hair colour was painted on the walls?[/QUOTE]

romans consitintlye said that gauls where blonde haired while romans where dark haired it is a fact romans where italiens they freakin lived in italy word italiens comes from ancient italic tribes including romans we know what they looked like yes they brought slaves but looking at modern italien dna they have italien and mid eastern blood not slaves blood

- R1b has zero to do with ancient germanic people

the Germanic languages are indo Europeans the Germanic signature is R1b s21 maciamo pleas back me up i am sick of these dumb arguments people trust what u say more. the proto Italo Celtic germanic speakers had R1b l11 R1b s21 maps out germanic language r1b has a ton to do with germans

- Alpine people have zero to do with ancient germanic people

Germanic r1b s21 is 30-40% in austria people who live in teh alps so ur wrong the two language families in the al;ps are germanic and italien so ur wrong again

- your term proto-germanic is wrong for the alps....its proto-celtic for the alps

i dont remeber saying proto germanic from the alps and if i did i was wrong they came from germany then spread to denmark 4,000ybp then back to germany 2,500-2,000ybp

- Unless you are neanderthal then all european people came from africa, middleast or asia . thats a fact..........genetic history does not begin at the fall of the Roman empire can we be clear on this.

i ever said genetic history began after the fall of Rome Europeans ancestors are from multiple migrations out of the mid east from 50,000-35,000ybp. can we please stop with these dumb arguments i get so sick of teh modern politcally corect mind which wants nothing to do with skin color the color of someones skin is one of teh best ways to define their race they have alot to do with genetics the best way to define a european is someone with Caucasian facial features and body build and white skin that is teh best way white people is a great name for Europeans it is not offensive and it is true italiens are darker haired and eyed than almost all Europeans that is a fact so for that reason they are not close relatives to celts and austomnal dna which tells ur full ancestry again shows Italians are not close relatives to celts can we get on to more important arguments that dont have answers like the ones i suggested
 

This thread has been viewed 28459 times.

Back
Top