Proto Balto Slavic Indo Iranien=Yamna culture=R1a1a1b

[Fire Haired]

Batlo Slavic and Indo Iranian are both Indo European but technically are their own families there is not enough linguistic evidence to say which other indo european languages their most related to. I think their most related to each other for many reasons not because i know about linguistics.

Proto Balto Slavic languages according to the Kurgen theory are suppose to come from Corded ware culture Indo Iranian languages are suppose to come from Sinshtaand Abashevo culture. Both Sinshta-- Abashevo and corded ware descend from Yamna culture. So Balto Slavic and Indo Iranien languages trace back to the same culture that existed in Russia 5,000-6,000ybp. Also we have 4 Y DNA samples from Corded ware culture two 4,800 year old ones from Poland one had either I or J(probably I2a1b), another had G(probably G2a), then two from central Germany they where 4,600 years old both had R1a1a.


The oldest Indo Iranien Y DNA discovered is in west China the tarum mummies they are from the time of Sinshta culture from 7 y dna samples all had R1a1a. From 3,800 year old Indo Iranian y DNA in near by south Siberia out of three Y DNA samples two had R1a1a and one had Siberia C. Out of 17 total ancient y DNA from Indo Iranien cultures in asia and eastern Europe 16 had R1a1a one had Siberia C. I have a thread where i explain all ancient Indo Iranian DNA ever discovered.

So both early Indo Iranian and early Batlo Slavic cultures had mainly R1a1a. That is exactly what was excepted because R1a1a dominates Indo Iranian and Balto Slavaic speaking people today and so many people have connected it to the spread of Yamna culture descendants and Indo Iranian and Balto Slavic languages. Also Indo Iranian R1a and Balto Slavic R1a are brothers. Indo Iranian is R1a1a1b2 Balto Slavic is R1a1a1b1. The ancient remains where not tested for those subclades so all we know for sure is they went as far down in the R1a tree as R1a1a.

So Indo Iranian and Balto Slavic both descend from Yamna culture and Y DNA R1a1a1b. To me this must mean they are related in language too just since they have been separated for about 6,000 years it is hard for linguistics to find how they are related. German scientist recently(june 2013) got 6 Y DNA samples from Yamna culture kurgens they are 6,000-5,000 years old. I am totally excepting R1a1a1b if they test it that far. Also the pigmentation genes from early Indo Iranian culture in south Siberia and central Asia had mainly light hair and eyes but pigmentation genes from Yamna culture the German scientist have released some info om that had mainly brown eyes i would guess mainly brown hair. Also they say Yamna was very unrelated to DNA from Indo Iranians in tagar Russia from 3,000ybp. They did not say what type of DNA test they did and compared the two with but i believe them. It makes sense since the eye color was so different.

So even though Indo Iranians descend from Yamna culturally and by Y DNA that does not been they are really related. Indo Iranians may come form another people group around Russia 6,000ybp that where conquered by Yamna and got the language, culture, and Y DNA. So i defntley think proto Indo Iranian Balto Slavic is a branch in Indo European languages and that Yamna culture spoke that language and Y DNA R1a1a1b is their Y DNA marker.

I know that it may be hard to understand this i am not the best at explain things. So basically what i am saying is Balto Slavic and Indo Iranian languages are in the same family. Yamana culture spoke proto Balto Slavic Indo Iranian. since Balto Slavic's and Indo Iranians are brother in R1a(Indo Iranian is R1a1a1b2, Balto Slavic is R1a1a1b1) that Yamna culture had the father of Balto Slavic and Indo Iranian which is R1a1a1b.

R1a1a1b=Yamana culture= Proto Balto Slavic Indo Iranien language

R1a1a1b1=Corded ware culture= proto Balto Slavic language

R1a1a1b2=Sinshta-Abashevo culture= proto Indo Iranian language

 

[Robert6]

Hello to all!
I think that the R1a Z93 is local to South Asia.

 

[Robert6]

Around the Dnieper river, L. Kleijn place the proto-Indo-Aryans

The coming of the Aryans: who and whence?
(the Bronze Age catacomb graves of the Ukraine and south Russia)
L. Kleijn (Klejn)
[h=2][/h]
But there is no R1a-Z93
Ukrainians (Hmelnitsk) 0% R1a-Z93 из 179
Ukrainians (Cherkassy) 0% R1a-Z93 из 114
Ukrainians (Belgorod) 0% R1a-Z93 из 56

[h=3]Major new article on the deep origins of Y-haplogroup R1a (Underhill et al. 2014)[/h]

 

[LeBrok]

Around the Dnieper river, L. Kleijn place the proto-Indo-Aryans

The coming of the Aryans: who and whence?
(the Bronze Age catacomb graves of the Ukraine and south Russia)
L. Kleijn (Klejn)

But there is no R1a-Z93
Ukrainians (Hmelnitsk) 0% R1a-Z93 из 179
Ukrainians (Cherkassy) 0% R1a-Z93 из 114
Ukrainians (Belgorod) 0% R1a-Z93 из 56

Major new article on the deep origins of Y-haplogroup R1a (Underhill et al. 2014)

Welcome to Eupedia Robert6.

Perhaps you want to comment on this subject in this thread:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/29705-Corded-Ware-Iranic-Aryan-split-of-IE
We had fiery discussion about origin of Z93 and Indo Iranians couple of months ago.

 

[Sile]

Batlo Slavic and Indo Iranian are both Indo European but technically are their own families there is not enough linguistic evidence to say which other indo european languages their most related to. I think their most related to each other for many reasons not because i know about linguistics.

Proto Balto Slavic languages according to the Kurgen theory are suppose to come from Corded ware culture Indo Iranian languages are suppose to come from Sinshtaand Abashevo culture. Both Sinshta-- Abashevo and corded ware descend from Yamna culture. So Balto Slavic and Indo Iranien languages trace back to the same culture that existed in Russia 5,000-6,000ybp. Also we have 4 Y DNA samples from Corded ware culture two 4,800 year old ones from Poland one had either I or J(probably I2a1b), another had G(probably G2a), then two from central Germany they where 4,600 years old both had R1a1a.


The oldest Indo Iranien Y DNA discovered is in west China the tarum mummies they are from the time of Sinshta culture from 7 y dna samples all had R1a1a. From 3,800 year old Indo Iranian y DNA in near by south Siberia out of three Y DNA samples two had R1a1a and one had Siberia C. Out of 17 total ancient y DNA from Indo Iranien cultures in asia and eastern Europe 16 had R1a1a one had Siberia C. I have a thread where i explain all ancient Indo Iranian DNA ever discovered.

So both early Indo Iranian and early Batlo Slavic cultures had mainly R1a1a. That is exactly what was excepted because R1a1a dominates Indo Iranian and Balto Slavaic speaking people today and so many people have connected it to the spread of Yamna culture descendants and Indo Iranian and Balto Slavic languages. Also Indo Iranian R1a and Balto Slavic R1a are brothers. Indo Iranian is R1a1a1b2 Balto Slavic is R1a1a1b1. The ancient remains where not tested for those subclades so all we know for sure is they went as far down in the R1a tree as R1a1a.

So Indo Iranian and Balto Slavic both descend from Yamna culture and Y DNA R1a1a1b. To me this must mean they are related in language too just since they have been separated for about 6,000 years it is hard for linguistics to find how they are related. German scientist recently(june 2013) got 6 Y DNA samples from Yamna culture kurgens they are 6,000-5,000 years old. I am totally excepting R1a1a1b if they test it that far. Also the pigmentation genes from early Indo Iranian culture in south Siberia and central Asia had mainly light hair and eyes but pigmentation genes from Yamna culture the German scientist have released some info om that had mainly brown eyes i would guess mainly brown hair. Also they say Yamna was very unrelated to DNA from Indo Iranians in tagar Russia from 3,000ybp. They did not say what type of DNA test they did and compared the two with but i believe them. It makes sense since the eye color was so different.

So even though Indo Iranians descend from Yamna culturally and by Y DNA that does not been they are really related. Indo Iranians may come form another people group around Russia 6,000ybp that where conquered by Yamna and got the language, culture, and Y DNA. So i defntley think proto Indo Iranian Balto Slavic is a branch in Indo European languages and that Yamna culture spoke that language and Y DNA R1a1a1b is their Y DNA marker.

I know that it may be hard to understand this i am not the best at explain things. So basically what i am saying is Balto Slavic and Indo Iranian languages are in the same family. Yamana culture spoke proto Balto Slavic Indo Iranian. since Balto Slavic's and Indo Iranians are brother in R1a(Indo Iranian is R1a1a1b2, Balto Slavic is R1a1a1b1) that Yamna culture had the father of Balto Slavic and Indo Iranian which is R1a1a1b.

R1a1a1b=Yamana culture= Proto Balto Slavic Indo Iranien language

R1a1a1b1=Corded ware culture= proto Balto Slavic language

R1a1a1b2=Sinshta-Abashevo culture= proto Indo Iranian language

How is Yamna only R1a, if it is and , why have we not that much R1a in Spain?
Did the ancients have a way and telling people..."hey you are R1a , better stay here , the rest can go "

 

[Yetos]

@Sile

well just think
my name is for the family
my name and fathers name is for the city
my name and my city name is for abroad, etc
so we have a kind of patriarchcal familes that change women mostly and not men,
so most male population in a tribe share the same HG

 

[kosmonomad]

Around the Dnieper river, L. Kleijn place the proto-Indo-Aryans

The coming of the Aryans: who and whence?
(the Bronze Age catacomb graves of the Ukraine and south Russia)
L. Kleijn (Klejn)

But there is no R1a-Z93
Ukrainians (Hmelnitsk) 0% R1a-Z93 из 179
Ukrainians (Cherkassy) 0% R1a-Z93 из 114
Ukrainians (Belgorod) 0% R1a-Z93 из 56

Major new article on the deep origins of Y-haplogroup R1a (Underhill et al. 2014)

There doesn't have to be any in the area. The R1a-Z93 folks didn't pick up any of the earlier neighboring Yamnaya layers R1b guys along with them (as per Klyosov), nor did they get any of my neighboring ancestral Fatyanovo R1a-Z283 Volga River folks with them. Yes we have one Andronovo hg C haplotype. I am not aware of a single either hg C or N haplotype attributed to movement to India ~3600 years ago together with Z93 - either case would be significant. The Z93 genealogical line must have traveled as a quite monolithic group.

 

[Robert6]

In Ukraine there were Cimmerians Scythians Scoloti Alizones Gelones Melanchlaeni( = Saudarata)
Sarmatians Iazyges Roxolani Alans etc
and most probably there were Proto-Indo-Iranians and Proto-Indo-Aryans but in Ukraine there is almost no R1a-Z93 ( 0 - 0.2% R1a-Z93 ).
Simply R1a-Z93 can not be proto-Indo-Iranian

 

[Goga]

In Ukraine there were Cimmerians Scythians Scoloti Alizones Gelones Melanchlaeni( = Saudarata)
Sarmatians Iazyges Roxolani Alans etc
and most probably there were Proto-Indo-Iranians and Proto-Indo-Aryans but in Ukraine there is almost no R1a-Z93 ( 0 - 0.2% R1a-Z93 ).
Simply R1a-Z93 can not be proto-Indo-Iranian

Exactly! Proto-Aryans were formed only after the collision of Y-DNA hg. R1a-Z93 (Iranic lineage) and J2a1* (Kurdic/Iranic lineage) either around the Zagros Mountains (has my preference) or BMAC in between Persian-Turkmenistan border (South-Central Asia).
Scythians came from the east (Central Asia) and entered Eastern Europe much much later after Iranic tribes were formed and expanding. Scythians were NOT 'proto' anything.
Also, so called Iranic people in Eastern Europe were Iranized (Aryanized) by language. But they're gone a long time ago, since they don't speak Iranic languages. Don't have any ergative construction in their language. And don't have Iranic culture, values & customs; like music, dance etc. Slavic music is very different from Iranic/Aryan music..

 

[Robert6]

R1a-Z93 most possibly was present in cultures like BMAC, Namazga-Tepe, Harappan and Jiroft.
But R1a have low frequencies in the western part of BMAC territories, probably because of early Indo-European migrations.
And most possibly one of the first Indo-European cultures there was the Yaz culture(in the western part of BMAC territories)

 

[Robert6]

Around the Dnieper river, L. Kleijn place the proto-Indo-Aryans

The coming of the Aryans: who and whence?
(the Bronze Age catacomb graves of the Ukraine and south Russia)
L. Kleijn (Klejn)

But there is no R1a-Z93
Ukrainians (Hmelnitsk) 0% R1a-Z93 из 179
Ukrainians (Cherkassy) 0% R1a-Z93 из 114
Ukrainians (Belgorod) 0% R1a-Z93 из 56

Major new article on the deep origins of Y-haplogroup R1a (Underhill et al. 2014)

http://i023.radikal.ru/1407/59/cd24245b498a.png