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Thread: Genghis Khan was part Turk , ancient Turks were white with red hair and green eyes .

  1. #26
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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.


    Quote Originally Posted by toyomotor View Post
    Nice Try, I'd like to see the scientific evidence of this.
    Next time quote someone or mention name of a poster, otherwise nobody knows who you're talking to.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    these Türks are a very productive thema of speculations, I'm afraid -
    what we seem knowing is their first 'cradle' was far more remote in the East, in central Siberia

    red hairs and light eyes are AN EXCEPTION among Mongols and even among asian Turkish tribes except some noticeable small populations - the slightly lightest turkic speaking populations of today are all of them populations where genuine Turks intruded among I-E (or other: finnic, ugric?) language - apparently 2000 BC they were signaled by Chineses between Bajkal-Balkach lakes - first written traces: about 732/735 AC (according to Wikipedia) i the Orkhon in Mongolia
    where is the very precise cradle of turkic languages??? hard to say, surely not too westernly in Asia... I think firstly mongoloid for phenotypes - but languages were transmitted or abandoned, sometimes by force -
    it is boring to read always speaking of these blond, red , "blue" exceptionnal reliques of "true old tribes" in countries far from Europe, or of 'black' Vikings - it seems "making the buzz" and pushing the weight on some 0,5% or 1,0% of some "mysterious authentic ancient" populations is the new way of making forum science?
    no offense to anybody

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    MOESAN, where is the evidence that Ghengis Khan has red hair and green eyes. His mother, Hoelen, was a member of the Olkhunut Tribe (Mongolian) and his father was Yesugai of the Khamag Mongol Confederation. His father was Bargan Baghutur, son of Khabul Khan who was grandson of Khaidu. There is no mention, that I can find, of a Turkish wife for any of these great men. There is mention of red haired, green eyed people living in the Tarim Basin, but that's a different era.

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    Uyghurs in the ancient timea were actually the colonies of "Atlantis". The people living in the region were much more different than modern times. Following the "Great Migration" only remnants of the ancient Uyghurs and Turanians could be seen today in those areas.

    http://anunnaki-sumerians.blogspot.com/

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    Cengiz was a Mongol.Timur Lenk was a heavily Turkified Mongol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by toyomotor View Post
    MOESAN, where is the evidence that Ghengis Khan has red hair and green eyes. His mother, Hoelen, was a member of the Olkhunut Tribe (Mongolian) and his father was Yesugai of the Khamag Mongol Confederation. His father was Bargan Baghutur, son of Khabul Khan who was grandson of Khaidu. There is no mention, that I can find, of a Turkish wife for any of these great men. There is mention of red haired, green eyed people living in the Tarim Basin, but that's a different era.
    Further to the above, paintings of Genghis Khan show him to be phenotypically Mongol with dark hair and brown eyes.

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    There is a book called "A Secret History of the Mongols" that was written by a Mongol about the life of Genghis Khan shortly after his death, although the oldest surviving copies are Chinese translations. Genghis Khan was described as having red hair and green eyes, and his wife Borte was described as having grey eyes, which is curious, considering their ethnicity. They may have both had some European ancestry. However, the author of that book didn't seem to think that was particularly significant, other than the fact that Genghis Khan was kind of unique among his people. It's been a while since I read the book, but I think it mentioned that his green eyes intimidated some people.

    Paintings of Genghis Khan would have depicted him as looking very Chinese, regardless of what he actually looked like. China was the jewel in the crown of his empire, and Genghis and his successors adopted a lot of Chinese customs and tried to fit in with the Chinese, according to A Secret History of the Mongols. However, at the same time, Genghis Khan was depicted as remaining very Mongol in his thinking, maintaining his power over the Mongols with the help of his favorite shamans, and being rumoured to be a great shaman himself. In fact, the book indicates that his only rival for power while he was alive was his most powerful shaman, who Genghis ambushed and murdered when he came to see the man as a threat.

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    Aberdeen: Not wishing to seem argumentative, but I think you'll find that it wasn't Genghis so pro-Chinese customs, but Ogedei who built Karakorum on Chinese lines and who introduced a lot of Chinese culture to the Mongol nation. Karakorum was the first city the Mongols ever built.

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    Quote Originally Posted by toyomotor View Post
    Aberdeen: Not wishing to seem argumentative, but I think you'll find that it wasn't Genghis so pro-Chinese customs, but Ogedei who built Karakorum on Chinese lines and who introduced a lot of Chinese culture to the Mongol nation. Karakorum was the first city the Mongols ever built.
    I don't understand, toyomotor - why don't you want to seem argumentative? I thought that was one of the purposes of this forum? LOL.

    You may be right about the extent of Genghis Khan's involvement in Chinese culture - my comments were solely on memory I can't find A Secret History of the Mongols in my library. Perhaps I lent it to someone. And although I suspect that any painting of Genghis Khan that was created for public viewing in China would tell us more about Chinese cultural values than about the actual appearance of Genghis Khan, that could be just another one of my crazy theories.

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    Blue eyes are not a sign of European ancestry.
    Check this post,there are Altaian Khazakhs that also have blue eyes and their paternal lines are having very few European lines.
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...ltaian-Kazakhs
    So even if Genghis Khan was blue eyed and half turk,what does it matter?
    He was a savage which troops killed civilians.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan
    "He came to power by uniting many of the nomadic tribes of northeast Asia. After founding the Mongol Empire and being proclaimed "Genghis Khan," he started the Mongol invasions that resulted in the conquest of most of Eurasia. These included raids or invasions of the Kara-Khitan Khanate, Caucasus, Khwarezmid Empire, Western Xia and Jin dynasties. These campaigns were often accompanied by wholesale massacres of the civilian populations – especially in the Khwarezmian controlled lands. By the end of his life, the Mongol Empire occupied a substantial portion of Central Asia and China."
    EDIT:
    I think most Europeans are brown eyed and most Turkic speaking people are also brown eyed.
    However,this does not make Turkic people Europeans,neither Europeans Turkic.
    There are some very easy to spot traits that separate Europeans from Mongoloid Turks,one of them being the presence of Epicanthic fold at Turkic people and the fact Europeans do not have it.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicanthic_fold
    If some people from Finland,but very few,got Epicanthic folds,that is from mixing with Siberians.
    And sure there another traits,like Turkic people are much lower at tallness and so on.
    So I do not understand what are you trying to say in this thread,cause to me is just a non-interesting pure non-sense.
    From my point of view Genghis Khan might have been even light blonde with blue eyes,he was still an idiot unhuman person,not matter the color of his eyes and hair.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    may I remind you people that not long before Ghenghis Khan there were people in Mongolia known as Scythians, from which the mongols adopted most of their horse fighting techniques.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    may I remind you people that not long before Ghenghis Khan there were people in Mongolia known as Scythians, from which the mongols adopted most of their horse fighting techniques.
    And Scythians were blonde and blue eyed,most of them.
    So is possible that Mongolians mixed with Scythians.
    No idea if Scythians were mostly Europeans or not.
    What I think is that when Genghis Khan appeared and before,the climate was much colder than it is now and the amount of sunshine was also much less ,than it is now.
    So I think blue eyes are possible to appear from brown eyes,after some mutation(s) triggered by cold and lack of sunshine.
    But this/these mutation/s does not make you European.
    For example Ket people,who aren't looking at all Europeans and are not Europeans either,by genetic testing,being closed to Tibetans,have plenty of blue eyes:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ket_people
    I think at Siberian and Central Asian people,blue eyes are quite present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    may I remind you people that not long before Ghenghis Khan there were people in Mongolia known as Scythians, from which the mongols adopted most of their horse fighting techniques.
    I think they adopted from the Xiongnu.... who were a mix race people. The Xiongnu were predominately Turkic Mongoloid with some Indo-European admixture.

    It's amazing how the Xiongnu had surpassed the Scythians, Iranic, and other Caucasian people. The Xiongnu were predominately Mongoloid race and they did ruled Caucasian people related (with Scythians) for a long time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurka atla View Post
    I think they adopted from the Xiongnu.... who were a mix race people. The Xiongnu were predominately Turkic Mongoloid with some Indo-European admixture.

    It's amazing how the Xiongnu had surpassed the Scythians, Iranic, and other Caucasian people. The Xiongnu were predominately Mongoloid race and they did ruled Caucasian people related (with Scythians) for a long time.

    hum...
    I do not change my thought that first genuine Mongols of Altaic regions were mostly 'mongoloid' (physical type) even if it is proved contacts between 'europoids' (AND NOT EUROPEAN, do notice!) and 'mongoloids' had taken place around Altaic at already ancient times -
    a survey about KAZAKHSTAN ancient population found an 'europoid' population between Neolithic and first metals, and since Iron Age a growing 'mongoloid' influence, firstly surely (mt DNA) mediated by wives - as History ran, the 'mongoloid' element grew too, this time with males and females, and turkic language - but in North, Turcs had already conatcts with Ougrians who were far to be pure 'mongolids' and with Indo-Europeans overwhelmingly 'europoids' -
    as a whole, every time you speak about blond hairs and blue ayes, you find 'caucasian' (europoid) ancestry, except in Australia aborigenes (no blue eye, I'm not sure) -
    no serious survey had found a noticeable amount of blue eyes among asiatic Turkic populations, even mostly 'europoid' as in Turkmenistan, less than among the mediterranean Europeans - the only exception could be the Uygurs, we are almost sure they are a mixt of genuine Turks and Iranain steppic population -
    GENGIS KHAN, as a lot of "noble" persons, had maybe a comlicated genealogy (look at the princes lignages of Arabia or Near-East were Arab elite took European wives most than a generation)... Attila, whatever his aspect (here I agree we cannot rely on ancient descriptions, overromanticized, married (one time) an European noble woman -
    keep in mind, after two generations crossings, the traits of the different lignages can intermix to becom inextricable, so blue eye with mongolic eyefold does signify nothing concerning a primitive type...
    to study an at least basic physical anthropology and genetics handbook is of interest

    have a good night

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    orry, my last remark concersn everybody, and I did here a general answerd

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