Fire Haired
Regular Member
- Messages
- 689
- Reaction score
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- Ethnic group
- Celto-Germanic, Latino(~6%)
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- R1b Df27(Spain)
- mtDNA haplogroup
- U5b2a2(Prussia)
From 13 Y DNA samples in Lichstenstein cave in central Germany apart of Urnfield culture. 10 had I2a2b which decends from Paloithic Cro magnon central European I2a2, two had R1a1a1 (X Slavic R1a M458, X Balto Slavic Z280), and one had Germanic R1b S21/U106. The R1b S21/U106 was reported as plain R1b the R1a1a1 was reported as plain R1a1a. Their haplotypes are online and i but them in Y DNA haplogroup predictors the R1b was predicted as 100% sure Germanic R1b S21/U106. The R1a was predicted to be at least in the Indo European R1a1a1 family. It was put down as x to the main Slavic and Balto Slavic branches R1a M458 and Z280 which both decend from Corded ware culture. There is another R1a branch from Corded ware culture which is Scandnavian R1a Z284 but this predictor did not test for it plus it is almost only found in Scandinavia. There is a Indo European R1a branch found in western Europe R1a1a1a L664 which is probably what both the R1a's were but they still may have been Scandnavian R1a Z284. I X'ed out it's possibilty to be Indo Iranian R1a Z93 since that is from what i know never been found in Europe today.
Here is a branch of R1a family tree.
Urnfield culture started around the alps 3,500-3,300ybp. It is a late bronze age culture orignally was Italo Celtic and is what spread R1b S28. I already made a thread kind of explaing how Germanic Italo Celtic speakers with R1b L51- R1b L11 invaded western Europe starting 5,000ybp orignally they came from the steppes like all Indo Europeans. The Germanic and Italo Celtic speakers split about 4,500ybp into R1b S116/P312 with Italo Celts starting Unetice culture in central Europe 4,300ybp. The Germanic's split into R1b S21/U106 starting Nordic bronze age culture in south Scandinavia 4,000ybp.
Here is a link to my thread were i explain it alot more
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-and-conqueres-of-Bronze-Iron-age-west-Europe
Urnfield culture extended pretty far. I think some people who technically apart of Urnfield culture were non Italo Celts who adopted the culture, traded alot, or were conquered.
Here is a map of the expansions of Urnfield culture
Urnfield culture gave birth to Hallstat Celtic culture which would later dominate really most of Europe and it gave birth to Italic Villnoeaven culture. The Hallstat Celtic culture was born around the Alps just like Urnfield and defintley were direct descendants of the first Urnfield people so they would have been dominated by R1b S28/U152. The Hallstat Celts were very war like and were able to conquer tons of Europe but their culture also spread by trade. It is true that R1b S28/U152 matches eastward expansions by Hallstat/La Tene Galatiens but not all of R1b S28/U152 matches were Hallstat and La Tene cultures dominated. Like in Iberia so i bet Urnfield spread in a similar way most of the time they conquered but they also spread their culture by trade since they had better weapons and alot of other technology compared to other Europeans.
Germanic R1b S21/U106 probably started in central Germany or around the Netherlands 4,000ybp. Then it migrated more north. Germanic speakers were only in far northern Europe until around 700bc when they started to make migration more south into central Germany, but since proto Germanic langauges and R1b S21/U106 started in central Germany. Why couldn't there still have been people in central Germany who spoke a related language to Germanic, or spoke a Germanic language, and had R1b S21/U106. So there could have been Germanic speaking people with R1b S21.U106 who were technicalley apart of Italo Celtic Urnfield culture because of trade or they were conquered.
3,000 year old Y DNA from Lichtenstein cave in central Germany totally supports that. There was one R1b sample they reported it as R1b but i but it's haplotype which is online into Y DNA haplogroup predictors and it was predicted 100% sure to be R1b S21/U106 not R1b S28/U152 which would be excepted.
Here is a branch of R1a family tree.
Urnfield culture started around the alps 3,500-3,300ybp. It is a late bronze age culture orignally was Italo Celtic and is what spread R1b S28. I already made a thread kind of explaing how Germanic Italo Celtic speakers with R1b L51- R1b L11 invaded western Europe starting 5,000ybp orignally they came from the steppes like all Indo Europeans. The Germanic and Italo Celtic speakers split about 4,500ybp into R1b S116/P312 with Italo Celts starting Unetice culture in central Europe 4,300ybp. The Germanic's split into R1b S21/U106 starting Nordic bronze age culture in south Scandinavia 4,000ybp.
Here is a link to my thread were i explain it alot more
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-and-conqueres-of-Bronze-Iron-age-west-Europe
Urnfield culture extended pretty far. I think some people who technically apart of Urnfield culture were non Italo Celts who adopted the culture, traded alot, or were conquered.
Here is a map of the expansions of Urnfield culture
Urnfield culture gave birth to Hallstat Celtic culture which would later dominate really most of Europe and it gave birth to Italic Villnoeaven culture. The Hallstat Celtic culture was born around the Alps just like Urnfield and defintley were direct descendants of the first Urnfield people so they would have been dominated by R1b S28/U152. The Hallstat Celts were very war like and were able to conquer tons of Europe but their culture also spread by trade. It is true that R1b S28/U152 matches eastward expansions by Hallstat/La Tene Galatiens but not all of R1b S28/U152 matches were Hallstat and La Tene cultures dominated. Like in Iberia so i bet Urnfield spread in a similar way most of the time they conquered but they also spread their culture by trade since they had better weapons and alot of other technology compared to other Europeans.
Germanic R1b S21/U106 probably started in central Germany or around the Netherlands 4,000ybp. Then it migrated more north. Germanic speakers were only in far northern Europe until around 700bc when they started to make migration more south into central Germany, but since proto Germanic langauges and R1b S21/U106 started in central Germany. Why couldn't there still have been people in central Germany who spoke a related language to Germanic, or spoke a Germanic language, and had R1b S21/U106. So there could have been Germanic speaking people with R1b S21.U106 who were technicalley apart of Italo Celtic Urnfield culture because of trade or they were conquered.
3,000 year old Y DNA from Lichtenstein cave in central Germany totally supports that. There was one R1b sample they reported it as R1b but i but it's haplotype which is online into Y DNA haplogroup predictors and it was predicted 100% sure to be R1b S21/U106 not R1b S28/U152 which would be excepted.