Black Irish come from R1b Iranians?

[Drac II]

On the K=6 only one Italian (probably a Sicilian) scores some SSA, whereas several Portuguese, Canarians and even a Basque score some SSA. Beside that all the Iberians have a great amount of Magrebi admixture, that Italians and other Europeans completely lack.

Check your eyesight again, bright guy, because alongside the Iberians that you want to "slander" so much Italians and to a lesser extent the French are in fact among the other Europeans in that admixture analysis who have Magrebi (orange on graph) input to speak of. Yes, less than Iberians, but still there nonetheless.

 

[Drac II]

Yes Table_S8 lists the blocks in the chronological order of the K=7 analysis; One can also simply double check the chronology with the results given at K=7 i.e. Sardinia is easily spotted (and on that position as in Table_S8) and so is Lithuania after Tuscany and the end with the Chuvashs (most E Asian comp.) all corresponding to the chronology given in Table_S8;

By the way, I checked the study where the Excel doc says that the Spanish sample came from (Li et al. 2008 Worldwide Human Relationships Inferred from Genome-Wide Patterns of Variation) but I could not find any such sample either in the study or the supplements. Any ideas where is this coming from?

 

[joeyc]

@ Drac

Both the Structure and the Admixture analysis with AIMs are outdated and unreliable methods. That's why none is using them.

Right now even the Admixture analysis with 100-200 Ks of SNPs is becoming outdated.

Moreover Brisighelli et al. uses a pre-2004 nomenclature for the haplogroups and their 52 SNPs come from an outdated study from 2006.

Arguing against these simple facts is pointless.

 

[Degredado]

Hello, R1b Df27 brother. I discovered about a week ago(through FTDNA) that i am a member of Df27 and have recent(300-400BP) paternal relatives living in Spain and France, and that my paternal lineage is from Spain. My overall Spanish ancestry is only around 6%, but still it's exciting because i had no idea i had any Spanish ancestry.

We'er both members of mtDNA U5b to, and both our maternal lineages are probably descended of Mesolithic central-western Europeans.

Hey Fire Haired, welcome back. I told you you were DF27 :cool-v:

 

[Silesian]

We'er both members of mtDNA U5b to, and both our maternal lineages are probably descended of Mesolithic central-western Europeans.

Interesting mtdna you have.:cool-v:

The most ancient identified subhaplogroup, U5b2, requires further phylogeographic studies. However the data presented here allow us to suggest that at least subcluster U5b2a is characterized by a predominantly central European distribution, since a large number of U5b samples from [SIZE=+1]Poland, Slovakia and the Czech Republic fall into this subcluster (Figure 1). For instance, subcluster [SIZE=+1]U5b2a2[/SIZE] is frequent in central Europe (with the highest frequency of its subcluster U5b2a2a1 in Poles) and dated as arising between 12–18 kya, depending on the mutation rate used (Table 1)[/SIZE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2858207/

 

[Dubhthach]

Tbh, as an Irish person living in Ireland I haven't a clue what the term "Black Irish" means, we hear americans talking about it but it's not a term ever used in Ireland. The only people we'd classify as "Black Irish" would be people with recent african admixture (Phil Lynott good example) or immigrants

 

[Drac II]

@ Drac

Both the Structure and the Admixture analysis with AIMs are outdated and unreliable methods. That's why none is using them.

Right now even the Admixture analysis with 100-200 Ks of SNPs is becoming outdated.

Moreover Brisighelli et al. uses a pre-2004 nomenclature for the haplogroups and their 52 SNPs come from an outdated study from 2006.

Arguing against these simple facts is pointless.

AIMS are still being used, they certainly have not been dropped. Of course, it is recommended to use over 300 AIMS to get better results, but still there are geneticists who are convinced that these larger numbers are not a requirement to get good results and continue to use lower numbers.

Notice that Brisighelli et al. did not make any changes to their AIMS part of the study though they made some updates to it after publication. I have not seen other geneticists criticize their AIMS results, so they probably did not feel any necessity to make any corrections there.

 

[Fire Haired14]

Interesting mtdna you have.:cool-v: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2858207/

My maternal lineage is from German Prussians so constant with the statement U5b2a2 is most popular in central Europe. Popularity doesn't equal origin, but there is a Mesolithic U5b2a2 sample in Germany and multiple Neolithic ones. Indo Europeans brought many typical east European U5(namely U5a1) lineages to central-west Europe, and i am sure other regions of Europe have brought new U5 lineages to central Europe since the Mesolithic. Mesolithic central-west Europeans U5 was defintley mainly U5b2 and U5b1.

 

[Degredado]

Tbh, as an Irish person living in Ireland I haven't a clue what the term "Black Irish" means, we hear americans talking about it but it's not a term ever used in Ireland. The only people we'd classify as "Black Irish" would be people with recent african admixture (Phil Lynott good example) or immigrants

Interesting. I blame this on the fetish that Americans cultivate for Irishness and its stereotypes, i.e., the Irish being extremely pale, freckled, red-haired and green-eyed (+ riverdancers, brawlers etc). If an Irishman doesn't fit the Hollywood mold, then he must be somehow less Irish (he must be Spanish, he must be Mexican...), whereas to the real Irish people, from Ireland, that person is every bit as Irish as any other, completely undeserving of a distinctive label like "Black Irish".