Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Correlating the mtDNA haplogroups of the original Y-haplogroup J1 and T1 herders

  1. #1
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    7,981
    Points
    564,326
    Level
    100
    Points: 564,326, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 31.0%


    Ethnic group
    Celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.

    Post Correlating the mtDNA haplogroups of the original Y-haplogroup J1 and T1 herders

    A recent paper on Madagascar Y-DNA and mtDNA made me realise that Y-haplogroups J1 and T1 probably both spread from the northern Zagros after having become nomadic herders during the Pre-Pottery Neolithic. Both haplogroups are usually found together in Europe, in the Arabian peninsula, Egypt, the Horn of Africa and Madagascar.

    This made me wonder what could have been the original mitochondrial haplogroups linked to the diffusion of J1 (mostly J1-P58) and T. In order to achieve this I had to compare the mtDNA lineages found in places where Y-haplogroups J1 and T were found in relative isolation from other Western Eurasian paternal lineages. The best places for that are the Horn of Africa, where J1 and T are practically the only Middle Eastern lineages present, if we except E1b1b, which seems to have originated in the region and would therefore correspond exclusively to mtDNA L. Sudan and Yemen are also interesting as they have high percentages of J1, but hardly any T. These places might provide an opportunity to distinguish the maternal equivalents of J1 from those of T (as long as J1 and T didn't form a single ethnic group during their southward Neolithic migration).

    Middle Eastern mtDNA of Yemeni

    Data from Kivisild et al. 2004 (n=115).

    • K = 10%
    • M* = 7%
    • R0/HV = 5%
    • H = 4%
    • N1 = 8%
    • U(xU6) = 8%
    • J = 6%
    • X = 2%
    • M1 = 1%
    • T = 1%
    • HV1 = 0%
    • W = 0%


    Middle Eastern mtDNA of Sudanese

    Data from Afonso et al. 2004 (n=102). The percentages are approximate as only the pie chart is available. The total of Eurasian lineages is 22.5%, while M1 is at 4.9%

    • (pre)HV + H = 9%
    • M1 = 4.9%
    • J1 + T = 3%
    • U5 = 3%
    • K = 2%
    • M7 = 2%
    • U6 = 2%
    • N1 = 1%


    Middle Eastern mtDNA of Ethiopians

    Data from Kivisild et al. 2004 (n=270).

    • M1 = 17%
    • N1 = 4%
    • T = 3%
    • J = 2%
    • HV1 = 2%
    • U(xU6) = 2%
    • (pre)HV = 1.4%
    • H = 1%
    • K = 1%
    • W = 1%
    • X = 1%


    Middle Eastern mtDNA of Somalians

    Data from Mikkelsen et al. 2012 (n=190).

    • M1 = 15.3%
    • N1 = 10.0%
    • R0 = 5.8%
    • K1 = 4.7%
    • U3/U9 = 2.1%
    • HV = 1.6%


    I have excluded U6 and U9, who both seem to be African lineages. M1 is found almost only on the African side of the Red Sea, with only 1 or 2% in Saudi Arabia and Yemen, but is otherwise not present in the Fertile Crescent region, and can therefore be excluded.

    Based on the above data, it would seem that the maternal equivalent of J1 and T could include haplogroups HV, N1, U3, and K1.

    Haplogroup HV reaches its maximum frequency in Mesopotamia and the Zagros, and matches very well the distribution of Y-haplogroup T.

    Haplogroup N1 includes three Middle Eastern varieties N1a, N1b and N1c, which are found at equal frequencies (2.5% each) in Saudi Arabia. The studies for Ethiopia and Somalia do not specify the subclades, but apparently only N1a has been found in Africa (Tanzania, Kenya, Ethiopia and Egypt), especially among Semitic speakers. N1a is almost absent from Kurdistan and the Caucasus, meaning that it was probably native to the Arabian peninsula. Interestingly, N1a was also the variety of N1 found in many Neolithic sites in Europe. N1b is a common Jewish lineage and is also found in parts of the Middle East, Caucasus and Europe. It might have originated in the Fertile Crescent. N1b is commonest in the Arabian peninsula, the southern Levant (including Jewish people) and the central Caucasus (southwest Daghestan, Chechenya, Ossetia), where haplogroup J1 and J2 are dominant. N1c is mostly confined to the Arabian peninsula. Therefore haplogroup N1 appears to have originated with Y-haplogroup J or T.

    Haplogroup U3 is most common in Jordan, Syria and in the North Caucasus. It could have been a minor lineage of either J1 or T.

    Haplogroup K is particularly common in Daghestan, Georgia, Assyria, and the south of the Arabian peninsula. In my opinion, it was one of the original mt-haplogroups of Y-DNA G2a, J1 and R1b.

    I would also add mt-haplogroup J, which is very strong in Saudi Arabia (21%) and Mesopotamia and is almost certainly linked to Y-haplogroup J1.

    Haplogroup U5 was found only in Sudan, where some ethnic groups like the Hausa possess substantial levels of R1b-V88. U5 is found in all R1b population in Africa and Eurasia and therefore almost certainly came with R1b in Sudan and not with J1 or T.

    Conclusion

    The original carriers of Y-haplogroup J1 during the Neolithic probably carried mt-haplogroups J, K, T and U3.

    The original carriers of Y-haplogroup T1 probably carried mt-haplogroups HV, N1a and U3.

    Mt-haplogroups M1, R0 (pre-HV) and U6 were native of the Arabian peninsula (R0) and Northeast Africa (M1 and U6) and were assimilated by J1 migrants since the Neolithic. All three lineages are found in all North Africa and East Africa, from Morocco to Egypt and from Egypt to Kenya. They probably represent the original maternal lineages of Y-haplogroup E1b1b. Many L lineages are also linked to E1b1b, especially L3 (except L3b and L3e) and L5.

    Mt-haplogroups N1 probbaly originated with Y-haplogroup J1 and/or T, although E1b1b cannot be ruled out.
    Last edited by Maciamo; 01-03-14 at 11:40.
    Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  2. #2
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,121
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    Good post big Maciamo, very eye-expanding about the other mentioned haplogroups! : )

  3. #3
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    7,981
    Points
    564,326
    Level
    100
    Points: 564,326, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 31.0%


    Ethnic group
    Celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    The Caucasus provides an invaluable opportunity to try to match Y-haplogroups with mt-haplogroups.

    Y-DNA J2 is found at high frequency among the Chechens (56%) and even more among the Ingush (88%). Both populations show a distinctly high frequency of mtDNA T2 (12.5%) and U3 (6%), the Chechens being heavier on T2 (17.5%) and the Ingush and U3 (9%).

    Haplogroup J1 peaks among the Avars (66.5%) and Dargins (84%). Their maternal lineages both display high levels of haplogroup HV (8% and 9%) and K (13% and 12%). The Dargins also have a lot of mtDNA J (11%).

    Haplogroup G2a exceeds half of the paternal lineages among the Ossetians (56%) and the Adyghe (53%), and is also high among the related Kabardin (43%), the Cherkessians (47%) and the Abkhazians (43%). Each population has very different maternal lineages though. The North Ossetians have the most mtDNA J (16%). The Adyghe only stand out by slightly higher levels of K (8.5%) and T2 (6.5%), but otherwise have a quite even distribution of most haplogroups. The Kabardin, although linguistically related to the Adyghe, have very different mtDNA, with more J (8%), U3 (10%) ad X2 (6.5%). The most common mtDNA among the Cherkessians is J (10.5%), K (7.5%) and U3 (6.5%). The Abkhazians have a lot of U1 (6.5%), U3 (7.5%) and X2 (9.5%).

    It is harder to find a correlation between G2a and mtDNA haplogroups, perhaps because G2a came from the Levant during the Neolithic and includes a mixture of Levantine, Anatolian and native Caucasian maternal lineages, while J1 and J2 may have been native to the Caucasus region. If that is the case, haplogroups J, K, T2 and U3 might all be native to the Caucasus. That would leave only X2, an perhaps also U1, as the best equivalent of G2a. Both haplogroups are found throughout the Caucasus, except among the Bagvalals, one of the few ethnic groups that lacks G2a.


    Note that I have excluded U5 from the analysis as it was most likely brought to the region by Y-haplogroups I2 and R1. I didn't mention H because all have between 20 and 25% of H and I don't have data on H subclades in the Caucasus.


    Contrarily to East Africa and the Arabian peninsula, mt-haplogroup N1a is virtually absent from the Caucasus (and Kurdistan), although N1b is found at low frequency in several populations, especially the Chechens (3.5%). Therefore, if Y-haplogroup J1 originated in the Caucasus region, it is likely that the original J1 people did not have any N1a lineages, and that N1a was native of the Arabian peninsula (+ the Levant ?), where J1 is now the most common paternal lineage.
    Last edited by Maciamo; 04-01-14 at 11:47.
    Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  4. #4
    בלי עין הרע Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran5000 Experience Points
    Semitic Duwa's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-03-10
    Location
    BEHIND YOUR HOUSE WITH A FLAME-THROWER
    Posts
    210
    Points
    5,455
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,455, Level: 21
    Level completed: 81%, Points required for next Level: 95
    Overall activity: 1.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J1-Z18271 (Kohen)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5

    Ethnic group
    Half-Jewish (paternal) & Half-British (maternal)
    Country: France



    I fail to see how J1 could've originated in the Caucasus proper, as J1 diversity is pretty low in the Caucasus.
    The Zagros, Taurus & Transcaucasus are safer bets IMHO.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,008
    Points
    23,849
    Level
    47
    Points: 23,849, Level: 47
    Level completed: 30%, Points required for next Level: 701
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2-Z19945*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    Alpinoid
    Country: Australia





    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    A recent paper on Madagascar Y-DNA and mtDNA made me realise that Y-haplogroups J1 and T1 probably both spread from the northern Zagros after having become nomadic herders during the Pre-Pottery Neolithic. Both haplogroups are usually found together in Europe, in the Arabian peninsula, Egypt, the Horn of Africa and Madagascar.

    This made me wonder what could have been the original mitochondrial haplogroups linked to the diffusion of J1 (mostly J1-P58) and T. In order to achieve this I had to compare the mtDNA lineages found in places where Y-haplogroups J1 and T were found in relative isolation from other Western Eurasian paternal lineages. The best places for that are the Horn of Africa, where J1 and T are practically the only Middle Eastern lineages present, if we except E1b1b, which seems to have originated in the region and would therefore correspond exclusively to mtDNA L. Sudan and Yemen are also interesting as they have high percentages of J1, but hardly any T. These places might provide an opportunity to distinguish the maternal equivalents of J1 from those of T (as long as J1 and T didn't form a single ethnic group during their southward Neolithic migration).


    Haplogroup HV reaches its maximum frequency in Mesopotamia and the Zagros, and matches very well the distribution of Y-haplogroup T.

    Haplogroup N1 includes three Middle Eastern varieties N1a, N1b and N1c, which are found at equal frequencies (2.5% each) in Saudi Arabia. The studies for Ethiopia and Somalia do not specify the subclades, but apparently only N1a has been found in Africa (Tanzania, Kenya, Ethiopia and Egypt), especially among Semitic speakers. N1a is almost absent from Kurdistan and the Caucasus, meaning that it was probably native to the Arabian peninsula. Interestingly, N1a was also the variety of N1 found in many Neolithic sites in Europe. N1b is a common Jewish lineage and is also found in parts of the Middle East, Caucasus and Europe. It might have originated in the Fertile Crescent. N1b is commonest in the Arabian peninsula, the southern Levant (including Jewish people) and the central Caucasus (southwest Daghestan, Chechenya, Ossetia), where haplogroup J1 and J2 are dominant. N1c is mostly confined to the Arabian peninsula. Therefore haplogroup N1 appears to have originated with Y-haplogroup J or T.

    Haplogroup U3 is most common in Jordan, Syria and in the North Caucasus. It could have been a minor lineage of either J1 or T.

    Haplogroup K is particularly common in Daghestan, Georgia, Assyria, and the south of the Arabian peninsula. In my opinion, it was one of the original mt-haplogroups of Y-DNA G2a, J1 and R1b.

    I would also add mt-haplogroup J, which is very strong in Saudi Arabia (21%) and Mesopotamia and is almost certainly linked to Y-haplogroup J1.

    Haplogroup U5 was found only in Sudan, where some ethnic groups like the Hausa possess substantial levels of R1b-V88. U5 is found in all R1b population in Africa and Eurasia and therefore almost certainly came with R1b in Sudan and not with J1 or T.

    Conclusion

    The original carriers of Y-haplogroup J1 during the Neolithic probably carried mt-haplogroups J, K, T and U3.

    The original carriers of Y-haplogroup T1 probably carried mt-haplogroups HV, N1a and U3.

    Mt-haplogroups M1, R0 (pre-HV) and U6 were native of the Arabian peninsula (R0) and Northeast Africa (M1 and U6) and were assimilated by J1 migrants since the Neolithic. All three lineages are found in all North Africa and East Africa, from Morocco to Egypt and from Egypt to Kenya. They probably represent the original maternal lineages of Y-haplogroup E1b1b. Many L lineages are also linked to E1b1b, especially L3 (except L3b and L3e) and L5.

    Mt-haplogroups N1 probbaly originated with Y-haplogroup J1 and/or T, although E1b1b cannot be ruled out.
    the thinking of the T project team for T ( ydna )

    the most recent common ancestor of T1 and T2 was a single individual and he might have lived in Azerbaijan, or Bhutan, or somewhere in between, or somewhere a bit further south or west, but I doubt if he or his sons and grandsons travelled very far from the region where they were born. As far as we can tell, after 10000 years only 3 of their descendant lines had survived (two from T1 and one from T2). So we will never know how many branches of T came into existence and then died out in those 10000 years, or how far they spread.

    note : T2 ( ydna ) is the new T marker found about a year ago in Bhutan ......................The Azeri and georgian areas near the caspian sea has ~11% of T ........
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •