Late Hallstatt/early La Tène mtDNA

[Taranis]

yeah about that, Vandals in medieval days were considered as Slavs, but hey, 19. century german romanticism made them Scandinavian origins, like Goths.

Its not the 19th century German romanticism but Jordanes, actually.

By the way, the classical authors (Pliny, Tacitus) consider the Vandals (as with the Burgundians and Goths) to be Germanic.

Germans in south poland, yeah, while most of east germany towns have names slavic origin.

This is true, but this is a product of the Migration Period. Before the Migration Period, the Proto-Slavs presumably lived in eastern Europe (approximately what is today eastern Poland, Belarus, and the NW Ukraine), but they did not have any direct contact with the Greeks or the Romans before the Migration Period. Its very clear that the speakers of Proto-Slavic absorbed a large amount of Germanic-speakers (and before that, had a prolonged period of contact with Germanic-speakers), in particular terminology for agriculture, cattle-keeping and trade.

Also word GERMAN isnt German at all, but latin exonym, and certainly does not specify specific ethnicity

From Latin Germania, probably meaning "neighbor".

Yes, it probably means originally 'neighbour', but the word is probably Celtic in origin (compare it with Irish 'gearr' - meaning short, and Welsh 'ger' - meaning 'near').

 

[Jackson]

Its not the 19th century German romanticism but Jordanes, actually.

By the way, the classical authors (Pliny, Tacitus) consider the Vandals (as with the Burgundians and Goths) to be Germanic.



This is true, but this is a product of the Migration Period. Before the Migration Period, the Proto-Slavs presumably lived in eastern Europe (approximately what is today eastern Poland, Belarus, and the NW Ukraine), but they did not have any direct contact with the Greeks or the Romans before the Migration Period. Its very clear that the speakers of Proto-Slavic absorbed a large amount of Germanic-speakers (and before that, had a prolonged period of contact with Germanic-speakers), in particular terminology for agriculture, cattle-keeping and trade.



Yes, it probably means originally 'neighbour', but the word is probably Celtic in origin (compare it with Irish 'gearr' - meaning short, and Welsh 'ger' - meaning 'near').

So literally, the 'near-men'?

 

[LeBrok]

yeah about that, Vandals in medieval days were considered as Slavs, but hey, 19. century german romanticism made them Scandinavian origins, like Goths.


Germans in south poland, yeah, while most of east germany towns have names slavic origin.


Also word GERMAN isnt German at all, but latin exonym, and certainly does not specify specific ethnicity

From Latin Germania, probably meaning "neighbor".

Can you point us to the sources of your claim? Otherwise it is nothing more than 20. century slavic romanticism.
Vandals as well could have been a conglomeration of different tribes and might have had some Slavic, Sarmatian or Venetdic (Baltic?) input. However the dominant part was of East Germanic, and for that reason their language was of Germanic kind and they were arian christians (same as Goths).

 

[Nobody1]

GERMANI is an exonym given in the Greek and Roman texts (prob. from Keltic) and assigned to the tribes the Romans classified based on common characteristics;

The German term DEUTSCH stems from:
ahd. diutisc / old-saxon thiudisk / gothic adverb Þeodiskō heathen/ proto-Germanic *þiudiskaz
Indo-European substantive *teuta;

Meaning is simply belonging to a group / a group / a people;

One manuscript that collectively uses the term is the 14th cen - Sachsenspiegel [III 53 § 1]
http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~cd2/drw/e/pf/alzg/pfalzgraf.htm
- iewelk düdesch lant hevet sinen palenzgreven: Sassen, Beieren, Vranken unde Svaven.
- Every German land has its Pfalzgrafen: Saxony, Bavaria, Franken and Swabia;

 

[Sile]

yeah about that, Vandals in medieval days were considered as Slavs, but hey, 19. century german romanticism made them Scandinavian origins, like Goths.


Germans in south poland, yeah, while most of east germany towns have names slavic origin.


Also word GERMAN isnt German at all, but latin exonym, and certainly does not specify specific ethnicity

From Latin Germania, probably meaning "neighbor".

give me some names of some slavic tribes in the area from BC times and I will check with historical data

regards

 

[MOESAN]

a friend sent me this.....german-Bohemian society data............unsure if translation is correct



For the German language readers, here is the original German text.
*Nach neuesten DNA-Analysen müssen offensichtlich althergebrachte Geschichtsbilder revidiert werden. Viel dazu haben die Völkerwanderungen des XX. Jahrhundert beigetragen. Demnach sind heute 45 % der Deutschen (ohne heutige Einwanderer), keltischer und nur 25 % germanischer Herkunft (väterlicherseits sogar nur 6 % eines germanischen Ursprungs). 30 % der Deutschen stammen von Osteuropäern (20 % Slawen und 10 % Andere) ab. Die Bevölkerungen in Polen (60 % Germanen und 32 % Slawen) und der Tschechischen Republik (50 % Germanen und 42 % Slawen) weisen einen deutlich höheren Anteil germanischer Wurzeln als die Deutschen selbst. Offensichtlich sind viele ostgermanische Stämme doch nicht ausgewandert und schon gar nicht ausgestorben, sondern mit der Zeit nur polonisiert worden. Lediglich die ostgermanischen Sprachen sind mit der Zeit ausgestorben. Nach der iGENEA DNA-Genealogie hat 10 % Deutscher jüdische Vorfahren.*
German-Bohemian Heritage Society

The results of most recent DNA analyzes will have to make revisions to commonly known history. Today, Germans (without more recent foreign immigrants) are of 45% Celtic origin and only 25% of Germanic origin. (From the father's side only 6% Germanic.) Thirty percent (30%) of all Germans have their origin in Eastern Europeans with a mix of 20% Slavic and 10% other tribes. The population in Poland is 60% Germanic and 32% Slavic, and in the Czech Republic 50% Germanic and 42% Slavic, in fact they represent a higher Germanic heritage than the Germans themselves.
Apparently, East Germanic tribes never migrated and never died out (in Eastern areas) but have gradually been polonized during which time all East Germanic languages were lost.

Unsure If this is legit. but it makes sense if the area of central germany was infested with celtic tribes.....the germanics would have moved first into East-Germanic lands and further proof is east-germanic area is the oldest germanic language.

I must say this paper is

 

[MOESAN]

a friend sent me this.....german-Bohemian society data............unsure if translation is correct



For the German language readers, here is the original German text.
*Nach neuesten DNA-Analysen müssen offensichtlich althergebrachte Geschichtsbilder revidiert werden. Viel dazu haben die Völkerwanderungen des XX. Jahrhundert beigetragen. Demnach sind heute 45 % der Deutschen (ohne heutige Einwanderer), keltischer und nur 25 % germanischer Herkunft (väterlicherseits sogar nur 6 % eines germanischen Ursprungs). 30 % der Deutschen stammen von Osteuropäern (20 % Slawen und 10 % Andere) ab. Die Bevölkerungen in Polen (60 % Germanen und 32 % Slawen) und der Tschechischen Republik (50 % Germanen und 42 % Slawen) weisen einen deutlich höheren Anteil germanischer Wurzeln als die Deutschen selbst. Offensichtlich sind viele ostgermanische Stämme doch nicht ausgewandert und schon gar nicht ausgestorben, sondern mit der Zeit nur polonisiert worden. Lediglich die ostgermanischen Sprachen sind mit der Zeit ausgestorben. Nach der iGENEA DNA-Genealogie hat 10 % Deutscher jüdische Vorfahren.*
German-Bohemian Heritage Society

The results of most recent DNA analyzes will have to make revisions to commonly known history. Today, Germans (without more recent foreign immigrants) are of 45% Celtic origin and only 25% of Germanic origin. (From the father's side only 6% Germanic.) Thirty percent (30%) of all Germans have their origin in Eastern Europeans with a mix of 20% Slavic and 10% other tribes. The population in Poland is 60% Germanic and 32% Slavic, and in the Czech Republic 50% Germanic and 42% Slavic, in fact they represent a higher Germanic heritage than the Germans themselves.
Apparently, East Germanic tribes never migrated and never died out (in Eastern areas) but have gradually been polonized during which time all East Germanic languages were lost.

Unsure If this is legit. but it makes sense if the area of central germany was infested with celtic tribes.....the germanics would have moved first into East-Germanic lands and further proof is east-germanic area is the oldest germanic language.

I must say this paper is a "revolution" indeed!!!
what authorizes this author to affirm such things??? Germans are Celts, Poles are Germanics, only Czechs are Slavs or what... rubbish for me -
maybe is he considering Y-R1a is the marker of Germanics??? and all Y-R1b is the marker of Celts and all Y-I2 is the marker of Slavs...?
concerning Celts, it is not new: old scholars always affirmed Celts were living far North before being pushed southward by strengthening young Germanics tribes - the Baltic shores? it is not so sure at all - even the tumuli "Celts" of the Lusacian or rather the pre-Lusacian S-W and Central Poland are not a so sure fact : surely some population of celto-italic I-Ean heritage and very close to them but... the culture of the first Umbrians (excepted the language) was close for some aspects to the continental Celts (even for dresses) - but here I've not too big knowledge - the archeologist I red was not too precise concerning these tumuli tribes in Poland, came from Moravia...
seemingly the Celts occupied at first the regions South the Rhine in the Netherland, and the Hesse as well and even farther North in Germany - the Belgae and Gauls tribes whose sets moved to southern Iberia at Iron times (C-S Portugal and Extramadure) came from central-northern positions in today germany - I already posted something about that in a thread (no more remembrance) - Hubert and others thought the Bell Beakers arrived in Britain (for me already a mix where true BB's were only the running class already half absorbed) with a celtic, maybe gaelic language, from the Netherland and the Westphalen (what push there the celtic language at the 2500 BC at least)-
&: Czechs show a 'coktail' of a celtic and a slavic, not the germano-nordic mutations for the Cystic Fibrosis hereditary disease, and so are surely more celtic than Poles as a whole (it is evident when looking at Y-HGs distribution)-

 

[Sile]

I must say this paper is a "revolution" indeed!!!
what authorizes this author to affirm such things??? Germans are Celts, Poles are Germanics, only Czechs are Slavs or what... rubbish for me -
maybe is he considering Y-R1a is the marker of Germanics??? and all Y-R1b is the marker of Celts and all Y-I2 is the marker of Slavs...?
concerning Celts, it is not new: old scholars always affirmed Celts were living far North before being pushed southward by strengthening young Germanics tribes - the Baltic shores? it is not so sure at all - even the tumuli "Celts" of the Lusacian or rather the pre-Lusacian S-W and Central Poland are not a so sure fact : surely some population of celto-italic I-Ean heritage and very close to them but... the culture of the first Umbrians (excepted the language) was close for some aspects to the continental Celts (even for dresses) - but here I've not too big knowledge - the archeologist I red was not too precise concerning these tumuli tribes in Poland, came from Moravia...
seemingly the Celts occupied at first the regions South the Rhine in the Netherland, and the Hesse as well and even farther North in Germany - the Belgae and Gauls tribes whose sets moved to southern Iberia at Iron times (C-S Portugal and Extramadure) came from central-northern positions in today germany - I already posted something about that in a thread (no more remembrance) - Hubert and others thought the Bell Beakers arrived in Britain (for me already a mix where true BB's were only the running class already half absorbed) with a celtic, maybe gaelic language, from the Netherland and the Westphalen (what push there the celtic language at the 2500 BC at least)-
&: Czechs show a 'coktail' of a celtic and a slavic, not the germano-nordic mutations for the Cystic Fibrosis hereditary disease, and so are surely more celtic than Poles as a whole (it is evident when looking at Y-HGs distribution)-

I interpret as

Celtic = R-U152
East Germanic = R-U106

this would make logic sense since east germanic lived in poland and czech areas in the late bronze ( maybe) and iron ages

It would also mean that U152 was brought to Italy by celtic/gallic people and mean Italy would be G2, T, L, E, I2, J2 etc in the early times ...........this is my theory

 

[ElHorsto]

a friend sent me this.....german-Bohemian society data............unsure if translation is correct



For the German language readers, here is the original German text.
*Nach neuesten DNA-Analysen müssen offensichtlich althergebrachte Geschichtsbilder revidiert werden. Viel dazu haben die Völkerwanderungen des XX. Jahrhundert beigetragen. Demnach sind heute 45 % der Deutschen (ohne heutige Einwanderer), keltischer und nur 25 % germanischer Herkunft (väterlicherseits sogar nur 6 % eines germanischen Ursprungs). 30 % der Deutschen stammen von Osteuropäern (20 % Slawen und 10 % Andere) ab. Die Bevölkerungen in Polen (60 % Germanen und 32 % Slawen) und der Tschechischen Republik (50 % Germanen und 42 % Slawen) weisen einen deutlich höheren Anteil germanischer Wurzeln als die Deutschen selbst. Offensichtlich sind viele ostgermanische Stämme doch nicht ausgewandert und schon gar nicht ausgestorben, sondern mit der Zeit nur polonisiert worden. Lediglich die ostgermanischen Sprachen sind mit der Zeit ausgestorben. Nach der iGENEA DNA-Genealogie hat 10 % Deutscher jüdische Vorfahren.*
German-Bohemian Heritage Society

The results of most recent DNA analyzes will have to make revisions to commonly known history. Today, Germans (without more recent foreign immigrants) are of 45% Celtic origin and only 25% of Germanic origin. (From the father's side only 6% Germanic.) Thirty percent (30%) of all Germans have their origin in Eastern Europeans with a mix of 20% Slavic and 10% other tribes. The population in Poland is 60% Germanic and 32% Slavic, and in the Czech Republic 50% Germanic and 42% Slavic, in fact they represent a higher Germanic heritage than the Germans themselves.
Apparently, East Germanic tribes never migrated and never died out (in Eastern areas) but have gradually been polonized during which time all East Germanic languages were lost.

Unsure If this is legit. but it makes sense if the area of central germany was infested with celtic tribes.....the germanics would have moved first into East-Germanic lands and further proof is east-germanic area is the oldest germanic language.

I remember this once was in the media back in 2009 or so. I guess the initial excitement about haplogroup results back then and marketing pushed the authors to make such bold statements.

 

[martiko]

If you actually read, what they call germanic admix is probably scandinavian one, and its only 6% by male lines in germans.


That Scando admix is probably determined by Baltic or Finnish influence

You are right the germanic are people of interbreeding and not comparatively pure people as English or Polish, and it is for this notion that you should be never necessary interpret germanic culture as a genetic or racial concept.