E - V13 : slavery in the Balkans

[LeBrok]

It could be either one; I don't know which one it is, I stated that above. Either way, what IS known, is that it originated and expanded from southeastern Europe. Was it 5000 years ago, or 10000 years ago? As of now, it seems we can't tell.

So were you lying when you said this?

False! I'm correlating E-V13 with the Neolithic Balkans;

 

[John123]

"It could be either one; I don't know which one it is, I stated that above. Either way, what IS known, is that it originated and expanded from southeastern Europe. Was it 5000 years ago, or 10000 years ago? As of now, it seems we can't tell."

It could be either one, what are you, a detective? LOL! What part of that didn't you understand? It could be either Neolithic or Greek, or it could even be BOTH. Either way, E-V13 expanded from the southeastern Balkans, it arrived there, during the NEOLITHIC. Do YOU know precisely when it arrived from the Balkans and spread to italy? I don't know who brought it to Spain either.

this is my original post by the way, you keep twisting it up; Atleast take the full quote:

"False! I'm correlating E-V13 with the Neolithic Balkans; it was ALSO later spread by Greeks across the east-central Mediterranean world! : )"

 

[Aberdeen]

For god sake, can you decide? The first statement says it was already in Italy and rest of Europe in Neolithic!!!
With second statement you are still beating the dead horse.
Do you have multiple personality?

Of course he has multiple personalities. That's why he has two names. Although his adamo personality doesn't visit us much anymore. LOL.

 

[John123]

What a fool you are LOL! My main account was blocked by one of the more active administrators; either Maciamo or Lebrok. Lebrok even admitted to me that it was blocked because I was "making too many one-line posts". I'm not the type to think so, but then again, when I add that on top of what is written in "post" # 41, it makes me wonder wether or not Lebrok has a hidden agenda XD!!!!!! It's kind of hard not to.

 

[Ike]

It could be that E-V13 entered Europe through Balkans some ~8kya. The spread up north with the Danube into central Europe, across Pannonian plains to the east. The end of part one.

At one moment couple of thousands years after, IE tribes came from Somewhere, and some of them learned a new modern language and started calling themselves Greeks. So the Greeks spread E-V13 into Italy, and further.
At one moment Bulgars descended and mixed with E-V13 from Thracia. At one moment some of them mixed with some other of them and started calling themselves Albanians.
At one moment Western Slavs descended to Balkans, and also assimilated E-V13.

God knows which one is right....

 

[bicicleur 2]

looking at all these comments I conclude that very little is known about how and when E-V13 came to Europe.

the only certainty we have is the ancient 7000 yo DNA in Catalunia along with Neolithic (Cardium poettery) G.
that is not a E-V13 hotspot today

 

[Sile]

E subclades

http://i023.radikal.ru/1207/f3/e562f5c5cc1d.jpg

 

[L0lec]

I think that will help a lot if you consider that many Albanians migrated to Greece during the 13th and 16th century en(dot)wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Arvanites. So you cannot assume safely that E - V13 had spread during the Greek colonization.
As for the main topic of the disscusion, no one knows for sure. There would be great help if we knew more about the "Sea peple".

 

[khufu]

L618+ v13- in anatolia

 

[ukaj]

E3b in Italy peaks in the toe of Calabria (27%), Basilicata (as high as 25-36%) and Apulia (20-25%). It's also found in the Campobasso region (25%) and the Ligurian region of Genoa (25%). It is found sporadically in the Veneto region. This perfectly matches a spread via Greek colonization. Now, in what concerns the 7,000 year old Spanish sample, it is an outlier, and it deffinetly puts the whole "Greek spread only" theory at risk, shooting us all the way back to the Neolithic spread theory as a possibility again.

John have you heard of abreshes?the arbreshe were given alot of land in calabria infact jhon their is a big comunnity in calabria whom are abreshe albanians,,who left their in 13ctry...just saying

 

[noUseForAname]

how can they be slaves when E1b1b is 42,000 years BC?....

 

[noUseForAname]

E-V13 is 10,000 years BC already in south east Europe, and also E1b1b already there 42,000 years ago.

you already said first balkan civilization is 7,000 years BC, so E-V13 are slaves of WHOM Exactly?

 

[zulkif]

Central anatolians have 5% E-V13 as well.

John, where did you get this data from?
From what I know it is 1-2% in Anatolia.
Above 5% in the western coasts though.

 

[Besa]

you seem pretty sure

how do you know that ?

It's more of a credible theory that EV-13 was spready by ancient greeks. Because if EV-13 carriers came as slaves that means half of balkan population are descendants of slaves? or are my measures wrong? And how was EV-13 spread across the balkans?

Besides, it's very well known the first inhabitants of the balkans might of come from North-Africa, carrying haplogroup E, the Pelasgians. And then came J2 probably through Anatolia.

 

[Besa]

John, where did you get this data from?
From what I know it is 1-2% in Anatolia.
Above 5% in the western coasts though.

That comes from balkan immigration to anatolia. millions live there of balkan origin

 

[blevins13]

Greek were most influential around Mediterranean Sea from 3,000-2,000 years ago. That's 4,000 years of discrepancy between Greeks and E-V13!!!

1. Where do you propose E-V13 was hiding for 4,000 years?
2. Why do you think the E-V13 couldn't spread around Europe for this 4 thousand years prior to Greek Civilisation? a)Where they invalids? b) European Continent didn't exist?
3. How do you explain presence of V13 in Northern Europe at 5% or even Central Europe in 10%? Clue: There are no known migrations or invasions of Greeks to Northern Europe in last 3,000, for the entire duration of Greek culture! Actually, all known migrations came from North or East mainly, and with people lacking V13, so it means that level of V13 was much higher through Europe before antiquity, let's say in late Neolithic.
4. Are there known records of Greeks settling in Kosovo and North Albania, the epicenter of V13? Maybe ancient Greeks came from Kosovo?
5. Who introduced E-V13 to Geeks 7kya? I'm sure you're not saying that Greek Culture is 7,000 years old.
6. Why there is so little V13 in Anatolia? Less in Anatolia than in Hungary. Was Hungary a Greek colony?
7. Spain doesn't match greek colonies
8. Italy's V13 is rather consistent all over. It should be much higher in south where Grecia Magna was, shouldn't it?
9. Bulgarian distribution of V13 doesn't match greek coastal presence either.

Can you explain these questions in Greek Civilization framework?

PS. Greek Civilization was rich in E-V13, they surely did spread some of it around conquered land. It doesn't mean they are responsible for any substantial amount of it around the sea, otherwise V13 map would resemble geek colonies pattern but it isn't.

Very thorough analysis, It seem that more research i required.


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