Politics Should Crimea be an independent country? (Russian-Ukrainian conflict)

[Icebreaker]

Crimea won't be the last annexation. Mark my words.

 

[Coolboygcp]

Crimea won't be the last annexation. Mark my words.

I agree. Next comes eastern and southern Ukraine, then probably Moldavia, then the rest of Georgia.

 

[Coolboygcp]

Sad news today. This crisis has just turned deadly, Russian troops stormed a Ukrainian naval base in Crimea, and killed a naval officer.Will there be more deaths in Crimea and Ukraine at the hands of Russia? Sadly, I think yes.

 

[Ike]

Hysteria? I pretty much have only seen rational responses to the illegal and illegitimate referendum conducted by Russia, in order to "prove" to the world that the people of Crimes want to be part of Russia.

Why would it be illegal and illegitimate?

In actuality, the majority people of Crimea don't want to be part of your corrupt, non-democratic, totalitarian, unstable, oppressive dictatorship. If Angela Merkel says that your leader is out of his mind, and that he is in his own world, that's pretty bad.

How would you know that? Are you the people of Crimea?

Also, "Vlad" has never made done the right thing. He beat and cheated on his wife, invaded Georgia and now Ukraine, has supported corrupt dictatorships (like Russia), has given money and weapons to countries like Iran, Syria, North Korea, etc., and much more.

Let's not start about how many US presidents cheated their wives, and how many countries were invaded and bombed by them.

Give it some time, and Russia will dissolve in a few years time. Mark my words, Russia will become the next Ukraine, or Syria; as soon as the people of Russia wake up, and revolt against their oppressors.

I don't doubt that some countrymen of yours are working their best for this to happen.

Also, if your country was so great, why are there millions are people fleeing it every year? How come many Russians now live in Europe, or America? Because they are better than Russia!

So did people flee from provinces to Rome to watch Christians being devoured by wild beasts, and to join pedophilic orgies. What majority of people does and think is not always poiting the good direction.

And also, Russia is only going down from here. Their population is falling, as is their economy, and their influence. Russia will not be of importance; actually it already is not of importance to the international community.

If it's of no importance, than don't think or talk about it, and all is settled.

After Russia has a revolution in a few years, they'll probably join the EU and NATO afterward; which would be the best choice for Russia, as the EU is much more powerful, and has a larger population than Russia.

Interesting that you don't even contemplate the possibility of disbandment of NATO, even after that predicted fallout of Russia. I just wonder what's the point of that organization in 21st century.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/nov/08/foreignpolicy.eu

 

[ElHorsto]

Turkey Threatens to Close Bosphorus for Russian Ships - See more at: http://www.novinite.com/articles/15...r+Russian+Ships#sthash.XplXIpWT.LYeM6ukl.dpuf

...because of Tatars. Global Balkans is becoming more concrete.

 

[Icebreaker]

Turkey doesn't have anything to say. We do whatever USA/NATO dictate us. Just like the Germans did in WWI. They attacked Russia just to get Turkey involved in the war. German troops used Turkish flag and fez during the attack.

 

[ElHorsto]

Turkey doesn't have anything to say. We do whatever USA/NATO dictate us. Just like the Germans did in WWI. They attacked Russia just to get Turkey involved in the war. German troops used Turkish flag and fez during the attack.

You might be right on that.

 

[Anton Bear's den]

Now when Crimea is Russian it opens a flood gate for all Russian Tatars to migrate there without passports or visas. In 20 years there will be more Tatars than others. With first opportunity they will demand a referendum for independence. There is still a chance for first Tatar state in the future. Especially if Russia sucks economically for a long time.

All anglo-saxons have very very distorted vision of Russia and processes occurring here. Probably because of shameless russophobe propaganda in western media. I bet LeBrok sincerely believes that opposes neo-communists led by KGB agent

Did you ever meet Russian Tatars??? NO? I have dealt with them a lot, in the army and in everyday life. They are totally lovely people, in many cases bigger patriots of Russia than Russians themselves

In addition they have a different historical homeland - Volga Bulgaria. It have nothing to do with Crimea.

I'm not surprised with incompetence of anglo-saxons. Colonists without culture can't be competent.

 

[Ernesto Grandi]

Crimea is ethnically russian but in political terms the annexation seems too much expensive for Russia.
Maybe better soft control than the military one.

 

[Anton Bear's den]

Hysteria? I pretty much have only seen rational responses to the illegal and illegitimate referendum conducted by Russia, in order to "prove" to the world that the people of Crimes want to be part of Russia.

What about Kosovo? Is it also illegal and illegitimate? "Special case"? Well, the Crimea then also "special case"

And remind me how United States got independence from Great Britain, according to your logic, your own state has no right to independence

In actuality, the majority people of Crimea don't want to be part of your corrupt, non-democratic, totalitarian, unstable, oppressive dictatorship.

O rly? It's your Captain America told you that?

If Angela Merkel says that your leader is out of his mind, and that he is in his own world, that's pretty bad.

Angela Merkel lives in other world for sure, in old one. While Russia just flipped a page in history & lives in a new one. USA is not world policeman there anymore and can't dictate its will to anybody. If you did not notice RF just sent USA "to the ****".

Also, "Vlad" has never made done the right thing

Vlad just took Crimea without a single shot and got 95% of support there

it's not just a victory, it's a supreme victory

He beat and cheated on his wife, invaded Georgia and now Ukraine, has supported corrupt dictatorships (like Russia), has given money and weapons to countries like Iran, Syria, North Korea, etc., and much more.

Beat a wife? You are crazy, give me a link or be silent pls. You can write a list of all Russia's sins since 862 year, I will sign

Give it some time, and Russia will dissolve in a few years time. Mark my words, Russia will become the next Ukraine, or Syria; as soon as the people of Russia wake up, and revolt against their oppressors.

Bla-bla-bla I would rather see how US will become bankrupt, Texas separates, American dissidents as Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning transform USA into a peaceful quiet republic of Ron Paul style instead of current warmonger oligarchic mega empire of military bases and CIA prisons

Also, if your country was so great, why are there millions are people fleeing it every year? How come many Russians now live in Europe, or America? Because they are better than Russia!

90 thousands, that's the number of people which flee Russia per year. For comparison, from super advertised "socialist western heaven" Sweden (9.5 million population) each year flee around 100 thousands, on 10 thousands more than from 140 million "Putin's dictatorship" Russia

And also, Russia is only going down from here. Their population is falling, as is their economy, and their influence. Russia will not be of importance; actually it already is not of importance to the international community.

Yeah yeah that's sounds like self-soothing words of scared person. We are so freaking weak here that just sent the whole NATO to hell

After Russia has a revolution in a few years, they'll probably join the EU and NATO afterward; which would be the best choice for Russia, as the EU is much more powerful, and has a larger population than Russia.

We can come to you only as doctors, in order to heal sick Europe together. Thats what kind of integration will happen one day

 

[LeBrok]

90 thousands, that's the number of people which flee Russia per year. For comparison, from super advertised "socialist western heaven" Sweden (9.5 million population) each year flee around 100 thousands, on 10 thousands more than from 140 million "Putin's dictatorship" Russia

[h=1]List of countries by net migration rate per 100,000 people[/h]

31	Sweden	1.65	2012 est.
32	Croatia	1.51	2012 est.
33	Hungary	1.37	2012 est.
52	Slovenia	0.39	2012 est.
53	Chile	0.35	2012 est.
54	Russia	0.29	2012 est.
55	Slovakia	0.29	2012 est.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate

As you see the net migration is 5 times higher in Sweden than in Russia. Russia's is close to 0, it means that poor emigrants from Kyrgyzstan or Ukrainians barely replenish the businessmen, doctors and other intelligent people you are losing. A nice present from uzurpator Putin, be proud, Vlad will fix Russia alright, lol.

 

[LeBrok]

All anglo-saxons have very very distorted vision of Russia and processes occurring here. Probably because of shameless russophobe propaganda in western media. I bet LeBrok sincerely believes that opposes neo-communists led by KGB agent

That's only in your head, and far from what I was thinking. Concentrate more on what I write and try assuming much less.

Did you ever meet Russian Tatars??? NO? I have dealt with them a lot, in the army and in everyday life. They are totally lovely people, in many cases bigger patriots of Russia than Russians themselves

Sure, being Russian is so amazing that everybody wants to be one.

In addition they have a different historical homeland - Volga Bulgaria. It have nothing to do with Crimea.

Why can't they have two homelands? Are you aware of such limitation in international law?

I'm not surprised with incompetence of anglo-saxons. Colonists without culture can't be competent.

Which Russian author you are quoting or is this your attempt at philosophy?

 

[ElHorsto]

After Russia has a revolution in a few years, they'll probably join the EU and NATO afterward; which would be the best choice for Russia, as the EU is much more powerful, and has a larger population than Russia.

We can come to you only as doctors, in order to heal sick Europe together. Thats what kind of integration will happen one day

Actually Putin was seeking EU and NATO ties constantly since he came to power and EU approached Russia too, until Merkel and Sarkozy came to power.

 

[FBS]

Interesting analysis: http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2014/03/24/140324ta_talk_surowiecki
Quoting:

During the current crisis in Crimea, Putin’s readiness to use natural resources for strategic ends has made it difficult for Europeans to take a hard line against him, ...You might take Putin’s brandishing of the gas weapon as a shrewd geopolitical move. But it’s a classic case of putting short-term interests ahead of long-term gain. Although the region’s need for Gazprom supplies may strengthen his hand in the present, the strategy is forcing Europe to end its reliance on Russia. After the crises of 2006 and 2009, Europe increased imports from Norway and Qatar. It built new facilities for receiving liquefied natural gas, and upgraded storage capacity, so that supplies could be stockpiled in case of a cutoff. It imported more coal. Pipeline connections within the E.U. were improved, making shortages easier to alleviate. The Crimea crisis will give new impetus to these efforts. The U.K.’s foreign secretary has said that the crisis is likely to make Europe “recast” its approach to energy. A draft document prepared for a forthcoming E.U. summit deplored the Continent’s “high energy dependency” and called on E.U. members to diversify their supplies. These moves are reminiscent of what happened after the oil crises of the nineteen-seventies made it clear to the West and Japan that relying on OPEC suppliers was foolish. Europe installed energy-saving technologies and invested heavily in nuclear energy and natural gas. France built fifty-six nuclear reactors in the fifteen years after the oil embargo of 1973.

 

[Anton Bear's den]

List of countries by net migration rate per 100,000 people

31	Sweden	1.65	2012 est.
32	Croatia	1.51	2012 est.
33	Hungary	1.37	2012 est.
52	Slovenia	0.39	2012 est.
53	Chile	0.35	2012 est.
54	Russia	0.29	2012 est.
55	Slovakia	0.29	2012 est.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate

As you see the net migration is 5 times higher in Sweden than in Russia. Russia's is close to 0, it means that poor emigrants from Kyrgyzstan or Ukrainians barely replenish the businessmen, doctors and other intelligent people you are losing. A nice present from uzurpator Putin, be proud, Vlad will fix Russia alright, lol.

Read this http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2013/02/27/the-myth-of-russias-brain-drain/
it's destroys your arguments

 

[Anton Bear's den]

Actually Putin was seeking EU and NATO ties constantly since he came to power and EU approached Russia too, until Merkel and Sarkozy came to power.

Much water has flown under the bridge since that time, RF elite don't seek for EU or NATO membership. I am myself for that time discovered that even Russia & Europe have different values and world vision, not to mention US-RF.

 

[Anton Bear's den]

Interesting analysis: http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2014/03/24/140324ta_talk_surowiecki
Quoting:

During the current crisis in Crimea, Putin’s readiness to use natural resources for strategic ends has made it difficult for Europeans to take a hard line against him, ...You might take Putin’s brandishing of the gas weapon as a shrewd geopolitical move. But it’s a classic case of putting short-term interests ahead of long-term gain. Although the region’s need for Gazprom supplies may strengthen his hand in the present, the strategy is forcing Europe to end its reliance on Russia. After the crises of 2006 and 2009, Europe increased imports from Norway and Qatar. It built new facilities for receiving liquefied natural gas, and upgraded storage capacity, so that supplies could be stockpiled in case of a cutoff. It imported more coal. Pipeline connections within the E.U. were improved, making shortages easier to alleviate. The Crimea crisis will give new impetus to these efforts. The U.K.’s foreign secretary has said that the crisis is likely to make Europe “recast” its approach to energy. A draft document prepared for a forthcoming E.U. summit deplored the Continent’s “high energy dependency” and called on E.U. members to diversify their supplies. These moves are reminiscent of what happened after the oil crises of the nineteen-seventies made it clear to the West and Japan that relying on OPEC suppliers was foolish. Europe installed energy-saving technologies and invested heavily in nuclear energy and natural gas. France built fifty-six nuclear reactors in the fifteen years after the oil embargo of 1973.

It's your president was engaged in organ trafficking of Serbs?

 

[FBS]

It's your president was engaged in organ trafficking of Serbs?

And? What does that have to do anything with the topic? By the way this is our president http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atifete_Jahjaga

 

[Sile]

it would be far better for Russia if they did NOT annex Crimea but let it be independent ( sovereign nation ). Only then could they ( russians) justify their early claims.

 

[LeBrok]

it would be far better for Russia if they did NOT annex Crimea but let it be independent ( sovereign nation ). Only then could they ( russians) justify their early claims.

Generally speaking I agree. I think, in long hull, Russia is going to lose more than gain. Gift of Putin is going to keep giving to them.