Doubts about J2, G and E3b

[kamani]

Well, im not an expert in genetics, i know that haplogroups R1a, R1b, I and N are European/White

That is incorrect because:
1. there is an old sub-branch of R1b specific to sub-saharan africa.
2. R1a and N are also common in people that look East-Asian or South Asian. Especially R1a in the countries South of Russia.
3. Haplogroup "I" was turned white by the Neolithic farmers who most probably were E3b and G2a.

 

[John Doe]

Well, im not an expert in genetics, i know that haplogroups R1a, R1b, I and N are European/White, but what about J2, G and e3b? J2 is very present in South Italy and Greece and they are white. Portugal had significant amounts of e3b, and the biggest contribution of that e3b presence is from the berberian people who were considered a caucasian people before being mixed with the arabians. And the only european/white sub cable of G is G2a?

Trying to mix actual science with 18th century racial anthropology classification doesn't seem quite rational. Considering the fact that in the 18th century only Wasps and Scandinavians were considered "white". Also Europe is really nothing more than part of Asia i.e Eurasia. Also, the Berbers didn't really admix with Arabians according to genetic studies, although the Arab language and Islam did overtake the area, signatures of Arabia like J1 aren't very common. Also, it's generally accepted that the trait of White skin was in fact carried by E3b people from the Middle East to Europe after the Ice age, that means that the first White skinned Europeans were in fact recent arrivals from Western Asia.

 

[Maleth]

In order to get the deeper information you received, should I have the 111 markers test on Ftdna, or will the 67 markers test on Ftdna be enough? Or perhaps I should test on Geno 2.0?

I had my deepclade testing (its a separate kind of testing) only on 12 Markers. So I believe your subclades can be confirmed on 12 markers. Very recently I upgraded (separate test) to 67 markers. So in other words what you would need is a deepclade testings. Things change so fast that Im not sure if procedures remain the same. If I were you and if you lost your links with the original company you tested and your dna has not been stored for further testing, then it will be best to get a new mouth swab.

Geno2 is now much more advanced then when I tested 4 years ago and like many others you can have all the percentages also how much Neanderthal and so on. If I were you I would check out which company can do it best and important that your cheek swabs will be stored just in case you want to make further upgrades, especially that for some they can be pretty costly to do it all once and dna technologies keep growing.

 

[John Doe]

I had my deepclade testing (its a separate kind of testing) only on 12 Markers. So I believe your subclades can be confirmed on 12 markers. Very recently I upgraded (separate test) to 67 markers. So in other words what you would need is a deepclade testings. Things change so fast that Im not sure if procedures remain the same. If I were you and if you lost your links with the original company you tested and your dna has not been stored for further testing, then it will be best to get a new mouth swab.

Geno2 is now much more advanced then when I tested 4 years ago and like many others you can have all the percentages also how much Neanderthal and so on. If I were you I would check out which company can do it best and important that your cheek swabs will be stored just in case you want to make further upgrades, especially that for some they can be pretty costly to do it all once and dna technologies keep growing.

Alright. I'm not entirely sure if to buy the 37 markers test on FTDNA or the Geno 2.0 test, I suppose the former, because that's how you got the deeper info.

 

[Maleth]

3. Haplogroup "I" was turned white by the Neolithic farmers who most probably were E3b and G2a.

I also believe (as I have read elsewhere) that it is possible that the little neanderthal admixture could have also triggered off a reaction to lighter skin eyes and hair and low UV concentrations can trigger a natural selection process to the adaptation of the environment one lives in. So it can easily be an amalgamation of situations in adaptations to various situations imposed by lifestyle and general environment.

 

[AgnusDei]

I also believe (as I have read elsewhere) that it is possible that the little neanderthal admixture could have also triggered off a reaction to lighter skin eyes and hair and low UV concentrations can trigger a natural selection process to the adaptation of the environment one lives in. So it can easily be an amalgamation of situations in adaptations to various situations imposed by lifestyle and general environment.

This doesn't explain why the WHGs and Denisovas were dark-skinned,BTW humans and Neanderthals have different alleles for red hair.

 

[Pax Augusta]

Well, im not an expert in genetics, i know that haplogroups R1a, R1b, I and N are European/White, but what about J2, G and e3b? J2 is very present in South Italy and Greece and they are white. Portugal had significant amounts of e3b, and the biggest contribution of that e3b presence is from the berberian people who were considered a caucasian people before being mixed with the arabians. And the only european/white sub cable of G is G2a?

There are also R1b that are spread in Africa.

• R1b1a* (V88) is common in Central Africa (0-95.5% depending on the ethnicity), with some presence in North Africa (0-23.7%, this last among Siwa Berbers) and also found in West Asia and the Balcans at very low levels (0.3 and 0.2% respectively of regional composite samples).
• R1b1a4 (V69) makes up the largest subhaplogroup of R1b1a and is found with about the same distribution as R1b1a*, that is in Central (0-62.5%) and North Africa (0-4.9%).

 

[Yaan]

N is not the haplogroup of Finnish people?

A certain kind of N is European, but it is East Asian mostly. Just like E is African but E-V13 is not.
To answer the question E-V13,J2b1,J2b2 and most of G2a are European, whatever that means.
R1b is huge in Central Asia and parts of Africa, so these things mean nothing

 

[John Doe]

A certain kind of N is European, but it is East Asian mostly. Just like E is African but E-V13 is not.
To answer the question E-V13,J2b1,J2b2 and most of G2a are European, whatever that means.
R1b is huge in Central Asia and parts of Africa, so these things mean nothing

Indeed, just like Q reaches it's highest frequency in the Americas and East Asia, but it also reaches frequency in Western Asia and Arabia.

 

[Yaan]

Indeed, just like Q reaches it's highest frequency in the Americas and East Asia, but it also reaches frequency in Western Asia and Arabia.

Not to forget Scandinavia and Central Europe where there are pockets of Q

 

[Maleth]

This doesn't explain why the WHGs and Denisovas were dark-skinned,BTW humans and Neanderthals have different alleles for red hair.

I really do have no idea how the science works, but I would presume some characteristics are naturally passed over. Just to make it simple, example different species of dogs that are inbreed always get characteristics from both sides. So if we have (or maybe some groups more than others) 2% Neandertal dna, although its not much and ultimately they would look pretty much like homosapiens sapiens with some evident characteristics. Example Otzi the Iceman is found to have much higher percentage of Neanderthal then we do now so this would have helped in building some of the different characteristics we see today in different populations.

It works the same with skin tones. One cannot deny that higher the latitude (and cloud cover, not all high latitudes have heavy cloud cover so UV would differ in differnt same latitudes) populations seem to be much lighter in skin colour (excluding suntans) Example the Irish are amongst the whitest skin tones you can get anywhere to the point that many cannot even work on a suntan, and yet their haplogroup is overwhelmingly R1b. So just by simple reasoning UV concentration must have an effect on natural selection when it comes to skin tones.

These factors + the eating of grain can explain the lighting of the skin in Europe and some other parts around the globe where white skin is prevalent. (prior to recent mass migrations that is)

 

[LeBrok]

This doesn't explain why the WHGs and Denisovas were dark-skinned,BTW humans and Neanderthals have different alleles for red hair.

I wonder if the "starting allele" was Neanderthal but mutated into a different one some time ago? Perhaps this is the reason for this confusion? I think it is more probable, therefore easier, to acquire the "right" mutation from interbreeding than wait for this "right" one to come from a blind mutation or few mutations.

 

[AgnusDei]

I wonder if the "starting allele" was Neanderthal but mutated into a different one some time ago? Perhaps this is the reason for this confusion? I think it is more probable, therefore easier, to acquire the "right" mutation from interbreeding than wait for this "right" one to come from a blind mutation or few mutations.

Ancient DNA has been used to show aspects of Neanderthal appearance. A fragment of thegene for the melanocortin 1 receptor (MRC1) was sequenced using DNA from two Neanderthal specimens from Spain and Italy, El Sidrón 1252 and Monte Lessini (Lalueza-Fox et al. 2007). Neanderthals had a mutation in this receptor gene that has not been found in modern humans. The mutation changes an amino acid, making the resulting protein less efficient. Modern humans have other MCR1 variants that are also less active resulting in red hair and pale skin. The less active Neanderthal mutation probably also resulted in red hair and pale skin, as in modern humans.
The specific MCR1 mutation in Neanderthals has not found in modern humans (or occurs extremely rarely in modern humans). This indicates that the two mutations for red hair and pale skin occurred independently and does not support the idea of gene flow between Neanderthals and modern humans. Pale skin may have been advantageous to Neanderthals living in Europe because of the ability to synthesize vitamin D.

Source : http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence...nderthals/neanderthal-genes-red-hair-and-more

 

[LeBrok]

The specific MCR1 mutation in Neanderthals has not found in modern humans (or occurs extremely rarely in modern humans). This indicates that the two mutations for red hair and pale skin occurred independently and does not support the idea of gene flow between Neanderthals and modern humans.

It sounds like a study from before the time we learned that indeed there was gene flow between these two species. It is their conclusion these two red hair mutations occurred independently, because Neanderthal's allele is very rare in humans. I would guess, however, that we need more conclusive proof that there is no possibility that modern allele didn't mutated from Neandertal base allele. Just because N allele is rare it doesn't mean modern mutation happened independently. N allele might be rare because modern version was more efficient for northern climate producing whiter skin, by natural selection.
I admit though, that independent allele scenario is still possible, but less likely in my mind.