Hellens or Romei?

[Sakattack]

You seem not to understand and not willing to.

I surrender and feel sorry for you.

Sent from my Robin

 

[Yetos]

I can't understand how you cannot accept a tittle other than Greek for your language, even if for this discussion alone. I'm sure you understand how it would be problematic if I'm arguing that Albanian speakers were considered Greek while also referring to your Kione language as Greek. You talk of ulterior motive behind my insinuations but I think the fact that you cannot under any circumstance accept Kione as not being refereed to as Greek clearly shows your ulterior motive here as well as your lack of sincerity in this discussion.



This must come out of a Greek school textbook.

Albanians have always had an identity. They were Macedonian, Epirotan, as well as Arberesh and its derivatives.

Again, I don't see how any of this pertains to anything were discussing here. You've completely ignored what I've written in previous posts.



I hear this propaganda often.
Albanian immigrants in Greece tell a different story about the Arvanita as well as the Chams in Epiri. Not only are they proud of their origins but continue to maintain their identity.

The Greek revolution was majorly, if not entirely, Arvanita in element. Not only the fighting force but the Arvanita inhabitants in Greece were at the least equal to the Romei, Vlach, and Slav combined at the time of the revolution. It is sad how the Greek government tries to understate the Arvanita element.

What you probably don't know is that the revolution was initiated by Ali Pasha Tepelena and the Arvanita revolutionaries had a goal of uniting ALL Albanian lands, as tried Skenderbeu 400 years earlier.

Again, how does this pertain to our discussion?

Sorry nothing about Thread,
Just Albanian imagination and propaganda

 

[Yetos]

Again with this....

"Kione is Greek" "Middle Greek" "You speak Greek" Hellenic Greek"

Do you hear yourself?

It was called Romei! after 1800's they called it Greek! Yet you insist on it being "Greek". Even if for this discussion.....




As flawed as I see your logic and as low as I perceive your mental capabilities, I have not offended you.






Again, same propaganda. Let me tell you my story. I'm a second generation American, yet I know how my great grandparents moved to Tirana from Dibra. I know the villages they came from, their neighbor villages, as well as the history of the region. Now, of-course I've seen even 1st generations here assimilate to some degree. That doesn't necessarily mean they don't identify with Albanians or they forgot or don't care about their people or origins. Understand? There's a resilient factor among Albanians. So I see a parallel here between the propaganda of Arvanita as well as the recent Albanian immigrants you are trying to portray. The reality for both is, they're all very much alive. As far as religion, remember how easy Albania became the first atheist country in the world.

Blood is not water!



You country propagates that the almighty Helenes(dead for 2000 years) defeated the Turks and won their independence because of the mighty of their Greek'ness. Your country believes there are no minorities in your country. Your country didn't recognize there there were Arvanita in Greece until recently. In fact denied their entire contribution to Greece until recently. Even now they try to propagate that the Suli and other Chams are "completely integrated" into "Greek" society. Denied the existence of the Slavs or Vlach in Greece. This is what you've been raised with and the B.S. you've been fed. Yet, you find unreasonable when I tell you that Ali Pasha started the revolution and Arvanita wanted to unite Albanian lands? Do you understand which one is more ridiculous?

Now, I explained to you 2 major events of how Albanian speakers were refereed to as Greek. Explain to us exactly how the Romei are Greek. Go forward in time and backwards in time. Just don't forget to include your Romei identity in the Byzantine Empire. Don't forget the Pontic "Greeks" or the Cappadocian "Greeks", as well as all the "Greeks" in Turkey. As far as I can understand, it is all based on language? As in the Romei spoke a Greek dialect as part of the Byzantine Empire, and can claim their "Greek'ness" with this? The same way a Romanian can claim Roman decent? Someone explain to all of us how the Romei are Greeks and what their relation to ancient Greeks are. I can't for the life of me find anything. Because there are a stupid amount of sources that refer to Albanians speakers as Greeks from even as far as Nish and Montenegro.

Good day!

And again negative Albanian propaganda,

The thread is about East Roman |Empire, and why Greeks used the term Romans,

and I proved to you that even in Albania this rerm was Used, as Remenii

The rest is just propaganda,

So I ask the moderators to close this thread so not to be a stupid tool of warmheads, blind posts,

 

[Yetos]

Hellenes or Romaioi

Hellenes are the Greeks
Romaioi are the Romans,

But with Christianity the The Term Hellenas Due to codexes Like CODEX THEODOSIANUS and others
and effort of Christians to Destroy everything Greek, books leather temples statues etc etc
and the camps of mass killing of Greek nobility (Scythopolis)
Greeks accepted the Roman citizenship and Christian religion
and the become citizens of EAST Roman empire ROMAIOI
there were written punishment if you claim Greek nationality = pagan till exile and death
but not if you Baptised christian = Roman you continue normal your life.

THE BIGGEST PROVE OF THAT IS EVEN TODAY TURKS CALLED THE REMNANTS OF BYZANTINE EMPIRE AS RUM
THEIR LANGUAGE RUMCA,
AND IN CENTRAL MAKEDONIA THEY CALLED THE GREEKS RUMLUK (ΡΩΜΥΛΙΑ-ROMYLIA)
officially termination Yunan and Yunanistan in pappers is after 1821 and Greek revolt
meaning 400 years of Ottoman occupation we were still Romans at pappers

Also same was in Albania
IS not Strange That Kastrioti claimed Prince of Epirus (HΗΠΕΙΡΟΣ) and Ematheia (ΗΜΑΘΕΙΑ) (clearly Greco-Roman see Byzantine-East empire words)
and a big % of modern Albanians are REMENII (Romans)
Same is also Rumania (Ρωμη-Ρωμανια) which has although Heavily Slavic admixture, Kept the East Roman empire identity
remember that Greek revolt started at Rumania not in Greece

any other post is away Thread and is just for negative provocative certain Reasons,


I ask the moderators to close the Thread.
cause it has gove wild


PS
there is a time and a place on planet which is named Greco-Roman world

 

[trdbr1234]

Hellenes or Romaioi

Hellenes are the Greeks
Romaioi are the Romans,

But with Christianity the The Term Hellenas Due to codexes Like CODEX THEODOSIANUS and others
and effort of Christians to Destroy everything Greek, books leather temples statues etc etc
and the camps of mass killing of Greek nobility (Scythopolis)
Greeks accepted the Roman citizenship and Christian religion
and the become citizens of EAST Roman empire ROMAIOI
there were written punishment if you claim Greek nationality = pagan till exile and death
but not if you Baptised christian = Roman you continue normal your life.

THE BIGGEST PROVE OF THAT IS EVEN TODAY TURKS CALLED THE REMNANTS OF BYZANTINE EMPIRE AS RUM
THEIR LANGUAGE RUMCA,
AND IN CENTRAL MAKEDONIA THEY CALLED THE GREEKS RUMLUK (ΡΩΜΥΛΙΑ-ROMYLIA)
officially termination Yunan and Yunanistan in pappers is after 1821 and Greek revolt
meaning 400 years of Ottoman occupation we were still Romans at pappers

Also same was in Albania
IS not Strange That Kastrioti claimed Prince of Epirus (HΗΠΕΙΡΟΣ) and Ematheia (ΗΜΑΘΕΙΑ) (clearly Greco-Roman see Byzantine-East empire words)
and a big % of modern Albanians are REMENII (Romans)
Same is also Rumania (Ρωμη-Ρωμανια) which has although Heavily Slavic admixture, Kept the East Roman empire identity
remember that Greek revolt started at Rumania not in Greece

any other post is away Thread and is just for negative provocative certain Reasons,


I ask the moderators to close the Thread.
cause it has gove wild


PS
there is a time and a place on planet which is named Greco-Roman world

They called us Arnaut! All Albanians from Greece to Kosova were called Arnaut which is derived from Arberesh. The Kione speaking populations were called Romei. Bulgarians were sometimes called Romei. Even that was because of Romei influence in Ottoman Empire and the banning of Bulgarian in support of Kione in the provinces of Bulgaria. What you did in Greece didn't succeed there however.

I explained 2 different point in time when Albanian speakers were referred to as Greek, while during the same time, the Kione speaking people were refereed to as Romei.

I will leave you with 2 amazing songs.

O e Bukura More(Peloponnese), an Arberesh song from Italy

https://youtu.be/e-Om6EuTJiE

Eduart Dema - Do ta Marr Nusen Came

https://youtu.be/h2LqrTxzllo

 

[LABERIA]

They called us Arnaut! All Albanians from Greece to Kosova were called Arnaut which is derived from Arberesh. The Kione speaking populations were called Romei. Bulgarians were sometimes called Romei. Even that was because of Romei influence in Ottoman Empire and the banning of Bulgarian in support of Kione in the provinces of Bulgaria. What you did in Greece didn't succeed there however.

I explained 2 different point in time when Albanian speakers were referred to as Greek, while during the same time, the Kione speaking people were refereed to as Romei.

I will leave you with 2 amazing songs.

O e Bukura More(Peloponnese), an Arberesh song from Italy

https://youtu.be/e-Om6EuTJiE

Eduart Dema - Do ta Marr Nusen Came

https://youtu.be/h2LqrTxzllo

Do you know that still today greeks call this Arvanites, arnautis? This term Arvanites you can find in books, forums, etc, in real life they are just arnautis and greeks hate them.

 

[trdbr1234]

Do you know that still today greeks call this Arvanites, arnautis? This term Arvanites you can find in books, forums, etc, in real life they are just arnautis and greeks hate them.

That is just sad. Majority of them came as refugees from Turkey. Look how they treat them for their hospitality. Despicable!

 

[Yetos]

O e Bukura More(Peloponnese), an Arberesh song from Italy

Only this is enough to call you ignorant

The song is from Greece,

your proffesor in propaganda is not a good one,

 

[LABERIA]

Only this is enough to call you ignorant

The song is from Greece,

your proffesor in propaganda is not a good one,

No, the song is not from Greece, it's impossibile. The arbëresh community in South Italy is composed mostly from Albanians who arrived from Central and South Albania. There are also arbëresh who arrived in South Italy from Morea, Peloponnesus, Greece. And are exactly these who sing this song. So the song is not from Greece, but is dedicated to a region in Greece, Peloponnesus Peninsula, the region from which they came and this song say:
O More, O Arbëri.
Oh More(Peloponnesus) Oh Arbëri(Albania).

 

[Yetos]

No, the song is not from Greece, it's impossibile. The arbëresh community in South Italy is composed mostly from Albanians who arrived from Central and South Albania. There are also arbëresh who arrived in South Italy from Morea, Peloponnesus, Greece. And are exactly these who sing this song. So the song is not from Greece, but is dedicated to a region in Greece, Peloponnesus Peninsula, the region from which they came and this song say:
O More, O Arbëri.
Oh More(Peloponnesus) Oh Arbëri(Albania).

MODERATORS PLZ CLOSE-LOCKED THIS THREAD

IT HAS GONE VERY FAR FROM THREAD

PLZ

ΑΡΒΕΡΕΣ Arberes
The original foolowers of Maniakis general,
They came from S Italy and revolt against Con/polis
Their general Died outside Thessaloniki,
They moved south to Peloponese at 1040 AD and they create the village of Maniaki to honor their genaral
They inhabited the castle of Κορωνη,
their song say goodbuy Μωρεας we left behind our stuff at Κορωνη,
They were expelled by Bayezid 2 and Barbarossa Pasha after the fall of Corona 1500 AD and battle of Preveza (ANDREA DORIA) and moved to Sicelia and S Italy, 1534 AD
they made 3 villages

Piana Dei Greci
Hora Χωρα
Aγιος Δημητριος St Demetrio Corone
They are the real Arberes Arberesides
all the rest are just Albanians who moved to Italy

they had never been at Albania except when they dissemberk from S Italy against Con/polis

But your ignorance is so big,
cause you the stupidities of Kolla and Demou and Demopoulos
the last one strangely says that he speaks with me and mention my account name from this forum

and he does find an answer, only he claims and crup,

WATCH MY POSTS HERE
he copy paste them to his silly page and he says that I have mail discussion with him,

The man is just a crap, stop reading him

 

[trdbr1234]

MODERATORS PLZ CLOSE-LOCKED THIS THREAD

IT HAS GONE VERY FAR FROM THREAD

PLZ

ΑΡΒΕΡΕΣ Arberes
The original foolowers of Maniakis general,
They came from S Italy and revolt against Con/polis
Their general Died outside Thessaloniki,
They moved south to Peloponese at 1040 AD and they create the village of Maniaki to honor their genaral
They inhabited the castle of Κορωνη,
their song say goodbuy Μωρεας we left behind our stuff at Κορωνη,
They were expelled by Bayezid 2 and Barbarossa Pasha after the fall of Corona 1500 AD and battle of Preveza (ANDREA DORIA) and moved to Sicelia and S Italy, 1534 AD
they made 3 villages

Piana Dei Greci
Hora Χωρα
Aγιος Δημητριος St Demetrio Corone
They are the real Arberes Arberesides
all the rest are just Albanians who moved to Italy

they had never been at Albania except when they dissemberk from S Italy against Con/polis

But your ignorance is so big,
cause you the stupidities of Kolla and Demou and Demopoulos
the last one strangely says that he speaks with me and mention my account name from this forum

and he does find an answer, only he claims and crup,

WATCH MY POSTS HERE
he copy paste them to his silly page and he says that I have mail discussion with him,

The man is just a crap, stop reading him

You have to organize your thoughts in a more coherent manner. Understandable since English is not your first language but you're just all over the place and I don't understand what you're saying.

You have to prove to us how you are Greek. Explain to us the process and history of how all these people from the Turkish provinces are Greek. What parts of Romei culture descent from Greek ones? So far, the story you are telling us is that you are Greek in the same way Americans are English? Or Romanians are Roman?

Heres an interesting fact:
Arbereshe - Ar ber eshe
Ar means gold in Albanian language
ber means made/ made of
eshe(eshte) means is
Arberesh means Made of Gold or more properly defined as, Golden People

Isn't this what ancient Greeks were called?

 

[Yetos]

You have to organize your thoughts in a more coherent manner. Understandable since English is not your first language but you're just all over the place and I don't understand what you're saying.

You have to prove to us how you are Greek. Explain to us the process and history of how all these people from the Turkish provinces are Greek. What parts of Romei culture descent from Greek ones? So far, the story you are telling us is that you are Greek in the same way Americans are English? Or Romanians are Roman?

Heres an interesting fact:
Arbereshe - Ar ber eshe
Ar means gold in Albanian language
ber means made/ made of
eshe(eshte) means is
Arberesh means Made of Gold or more properly defined as, Golden People

Isn't this what ancient Greeks were called?

you read too much science fiction,
or your mind run fast,

i have nothing to prove to your ignorance even about Arberes,
as you see you made a big mistake,

now leave at peace Arbanites,
cause they gain glory,
while Albanians did not,
and go serve the Ottomans, as your grandfather Vallavan pasha

remember the battle of Lalla,
and Lalla is not Adriatik one,

 

[trdbr1234]

you read too much science fiction,
or your mind run fast,

i have nothing to prove to your ignorance even about Arberes,
as you see you made a big mistake,

now leave at peace Arbanites,
cause they gain glory,
while Albanians did not,
and go serve the Ottomans, as your grandfather Vallavan pasha

remember the battle of Lalla,
and Lalla is not Adriatik one,

It's not Arberes. It is Arbereshe for the people and Arberi for the countries where Arbereshe live.

What is science fiction? Arbereshe is what all Albanians are. It is where the name of our country, Albania, comes from. And it's direct translation in English is Made of Gold. What about this is science fiction?

It's the Romei that served the Ottomans my small minded friend. Read into the history of the Romei in the Ottoman Empire and the privileges you had compared to everyone else.

Who is Vallavan Pasha? What do I, Albanians, or this thread have to do with this? And what about battle of Lalla do I have to remember?

Do you know why the Turks gave Gjergj Kastrioti the tittle Skenderbe? Iskander is what the Ottomans refereed to Alexander the Great.

 

[Yetos]

It's not Arberes. It is Arbereshe for the people and Arberi for the countries where Arbereshe live.

What is science fiction? Arbereshe is what all Albanians are. It is where the name of our country, Albania, comes from. And it's direct translation in English is Made of Gold. What about this is science fiction?

It's the Romei that served the Ottomans my small minded friend. Read into the history of the Romei in the Ottoman Empire and the privileges you had compared to everyone else.

Who is Vallavan Pasha? What do I, Albanians, or this thread have to do with this? And what about battle of Lalla do I have to remember?

Do you know why the Turks gave Gjergj Kastrioti the tittle Skenderbe? Iskander is what the Ottomans refereed to Alexander the Great.

MAN ARE N"T YOU ASHAMED A BIT?

I can give you 10 -20 Arbanites and more that Have statues,, and took Glory By Revolt against Tukrs
Tell me on the other side
DID YOU ALBANINS MADE A STATUE FOR THE ARNAUT

OMER VRIONI ?
ISMAEL PASHA PLIACH?

Great Arnauts, General of the Sultan.

WHY DON"T YOU, THE SONS OF VALLAVAN PASHA MAKE A STATUE TO THEM,
THEY KILLED ARBANITES AND GREEKS WHICH YOU HATE SOM MUCH,

We Honor our heroes,
WHY YOU DON'T you do the same INSTEAD OF STEAL OUR HEROES?

like Omer Vrioni and Ismael Pasha Pliah The famous Arnaut generals

Go and make a monument to eponymous Pashas ones and the anonymous Arnauts who fought obeying Sultan,
Side by side with Ottomans against Greeks and Arbanites.
instead of stealing other peoples Glory.


AllyourpostsinThisforumarecrup,
AND THE ONLY Thing THEY SHOW, IS THAT YOU HATE GREEKS AND ARBANITES,
YOU HATE BOTH,
WHY?
CAUSE THEY TOOK THE GLORY, AND FIGHT FOR FREEDOM,
INSTEAD, YOU FIGHT OBEYING OTTOMANS, HIS MASTERS VOICE SULTAN.


and even today you do so.

Shame on you guys
but from the sons of Normando/Cumans and Vallavan pasha waht could wait?

 

[trdbr1234]

MAN ARE N"T YOU ASHAMED A BIT?

I can give you 10 -20 Arbanites and more that Have statues,, and took Glory By Revolt against Tukrs
Tell me on the other side
DID YOU ALBANINS MADE A STATUE FOR THE ARNAUT

OMER VRIONI ?
ISMAEL PASHA PLIACH?

Great Arnauts, General of the Sultan.

WHY DON"T YOU, THE SONS OF VALLAVAN PASHA MAKE A STATUE TO THEM,
THEY KILLED ARBANITES AND GREEKS WHICH YOU HATE SOM MUCH,

We Honor our heroes,
WHY YOU DON'T you do the same INSTEAD OF STEAL OUR HEROES?

like Omer Vrioni and Ismael Pasha Pliah The famous Arnaut generals

Go and make a monument to eponymous Pashas ones and the anonymous Arnauts who fought obeying Sultan,
Side by side with Ottomans against Greeks and Arbanites.
instead of stealing other peoples Glory.


AllyourpostsinThisforumarecrup,
AND THE ONLY Thing THEY SHOW, IS THAT YOU HATE GREEKS AND ARBANITES,
YOU HATE BOTH,
WHY?
CAUSE THEY TOOK THE GLORY, AND FIGHT FOR FREEDOM,
INSTEAD, YOU FIGHT OBEYING OTTOMANS, HIS MASTERS VOICE SULTAN.


and even today you do so.

Shame on you guys
but from the sons of Normando/Cumans and Vallavan pasha waht could wait?

Ahh I see....
You seem to think that Albanians fought for the Ottomans. You haven't the slightest idea of how much we suffered from the Ottomans. Albanian language and publication were banned during Ottoman Empire. Even our church services were made in Serbian, Bulgarian, and Byzantine Kione. Being Albanian was hard! Being a Christian Albanian was near impossible. What did you all do when the powers that be gave you your freedom? You attacked the people that were the most victimized by their occupation. Victimized for the very reason to protect you all!

You should look into how many Ottoman generals and leaders were of Romei origins. This should cure your ignorance.

I think you mean Arvanita? Arvanita is just a bastardized version of Arbereshe. This is what they called themselves and still do. Arvanita is what was imposed on them by the Greek government to differentiate them from other Albanians. And no, we certainly don't hate the Arvanita. Many Arvanita have made attempts to unite our people.

What history of yours are we stealing? Unless you mean stealing Arvanita history. This is probable. Your homes however are in Turkey.

You're like an ultimate trol. You throw all these unrelated topics at people and expect a unified answer. Be clear and precise in what you're saying. You're confusing.

 

[Diomedes]

You guys break my heart. Why this hatred?!

 

[spartan owl]

The "byzantine" empire was a Greek speaking empire called roman empire (the term byzantine was coined in modern times)and it was the eastern half of the roman empire that did not fall from the barbarian invasion.So the inhabitants were called romei meaning romans.
Now the albanians were part of the empire but they did feel like a minority because of the language and because the greek speaking elite saw non greeks(or not hellenised populations) as b-class citizents.In fact some emperors even if they were greek speakers were called by their place of origin ( the paflagonian or the isaurian)by their enemies as disrespect.So the albanians (and other populations as well)did not really have the oportunity to become a high rank officer.The mother of basileios the second for example called the emperial guard captain a"skythian" as disrespect.So it is normal that albanians did not call themselves romei.But all this is just theory as you really can not know how the albanians called them selves back then as there was not an albanian alphabet until 1900 so we really do not have a lot of sources about you guys.Maybe you used both terms romei and albanians.And for sure i would not bet about how kastrioti called him self, seeing that he used the byzantine in battle.

 

[spartan owl]

The "byzantine" empire was a Greek speaking empire called roman empire (the term byzantine was coined in modern times)and it was the eastern half of the roman empire that did not fall from the barbarian invasion.So the inhabitants were called romei meaning romans.
Now the albanians were part of the empire but they did feel like a minority because of the language and because the greek speaking elite saw non greeks(or not hellenised populations) as b-class citizents.In fact some emperors even if they were greek speakers were called by their place of origin ( the paflagonian or the isaurian)by their enemies as disrespect.So the albanians (and other populations as well)did not really have the oportunity to become a high rank officer.The mother of basileios the second for example called the emperial guard captain a"skythian" as disrespect.So it is normal that albanians did not call themselves romei.But all this is just theory as you really can not know how the albanians called them selves back then as there was not an albanian alphabet until 1900 so we really do not have a lot of sources about you guys.Maybe you used both terms romei and albanians.And for sure i would not bet about how kastrioti called him self, seeing that he used the byzantine in battle.

the byzantine flag in battle

 

[LABERIA]

The "byzantine" empire was a Greek speaking empire called roman empire (the term byzantine was coined in modern times)and it was the eastern half of the roman empire that did not fall from the barbarian invasion.So the inhabitants were called romei meaning romans.
Now the albanians were part of the empire but they did feel like a minority because of the language and because the greek speaking elite saw non greeks(or not hellenised populations) as b-class citizents.In fact some emperors even if they were greek speakers were called by their place of origin ( the paflagonian or the isaurian)by their enemies as disrespect.So the albanians (and other populations as well)did not really have the oportunity to become a high rank officer.The mother of basileios the second for example called the emperial guard captain a"skythian" as disrespect.So it is normal that albanians did not call themselves romei.But all this is just theory as you really can not know how the albanians called them selves back then as there was not an albanian alphabet until 1900 so we really do not have a lot of sources about you guys.Maybe you used both terms romei and albanians.And for sure i would not bet about how kastrioti called him self, seeing that he used the byzantine in battle.

Your post is totally crap and i don't want to waste my time with this your "theories", because it's evident that you lack some basic knowledges. I want to correct you something, the name of the Empire was Roman Empire.

 

[LABERIA]

the byzantine flag in battle

Could be. But we are not sure about this fact. Many others used during the history the double head eagle. However, if Scanderbeg's flag was that of the Roman Empire, He and Albanians deserved to use it with pride, being the only ones in the former Roman Empire who fought like lions against these alien invaders, protecting their country and the West Europe from this invasion, as opposed to other Orthodox in the Balkans (excluding few cases ) who have accepted willingly to become part of the Ottoman Empire.