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I can't understand how you cannot accept a tittle other than Greek for your language, even if for this discussion alone. I'm sure you understand how it would be problematic if I'm arguing that Albanian speakers were considered Greek while also referring to your Kione language as Greek. You talk of ulterior motive behind my insinuations but I think the fact that you cannot under any circumstance accept Kione as not being refereed to as Greek clearly shows your ulterior motive here as well as your lack of sincerity in this discussion.
This must come out of a Greek school textbook.
Albanians have always had an identity. They were Macedonian, Epirotan, as well as Arberesh and its derivatives.
Again, I don't see how any of this pertains to anything were discussing here. You've completely ignored what I've written in previous posts.
I hear this propaganda often.
Albanian immigrants in Greece tell a different story about the Arvanita as well as the Chams in Epiri. Not only are they proud of their origins but continue to maintain their identity.
The Greek revolution was majorly, if not entirely, Arvanita in element. Not only the fighting force but the Arvanita inhabitants in Greece were at the least equal to the Romei, Vlach, and Slav combined at the time of the revolution. It is sad how the Greek government tries to understate the Arvanita element.
What you probably don't know is that the revolution was initiated by Ali Pasha Tepelena and the Arvanita revolutionaries had a goal of uniting ALL Albanian lands, as tried Skenderbeu 400 years earlier.
Again, how does this pertain to our discussion?
Again with this....
"Kione is Greek" "Middle Greek" "You speak Greek" Hellenic Greek"
Do you hear yourself?
It was called Romei! after 1800's they called it Greek! Yet you insist on it being "Greek". Even if for this discussion.....
As flawed as I see your logic and as low as I perceive your mental capabilities, I have not offended you.
Again, same propaganda. Let me tell you my story. I'm a second generation American, yet I know how my great grandparents moved to Tirana from Dibra. I know the villages they came from, their neighbor villages, as well as the history of the region. Now, of-course I've seen even 1st generations here assimilate to some degree. That doesn't necessarily mean they don't identify with Albanians or they forgot or don't care about their people or origins. Understand? There's a resilient factor among Albanians. So I see a parallel here between the propaganda of Arvanita as well as the recent Albanian immigrants you are trying to portray. The reality for both is, they're all very much alive. As far as religion, remember how easy Albania became the first atheist country in the world.
Blood is not water!
You country propagates that the almighty Helenes(dead for 2000 years) defeated the Turks and won their independence because of the mighty of their Greek'ness. Your country believes there are no minorities in your country. Your country didn't recognize there there were Arvanita in Greece until recently. In fact denied their entire contribution to Greece until recently. Even now they try to propagate that the Suli and other Chams are "completely integrated" into "Greek" society. Denied the existence of the Slavs or Vlach in Greece. This is what you've been raised with and the B.S. you've been fed. Yet, you find unreasonable when I tell you that Ali Pasha started the revolution and Arvanita wanted to unite Albanian lands? Do you understand which one is more ridiculous?
Now, I explained to you 2 major events of how Albanian speakers were refereed to as Greek. Explain to us exactly how the Romei are Greek. Go forward in time and backwards in time. Just don't forget to include your Romei identity in the Byzantine Empire. Don't forget the Pontic "Greeks" or the Cappadocian "Greeks", as well as all the "Greeks" in Turkey. As far as I can understand, it is all based on language? As in the Romei spoke a Greek dialect as part of the Byzantine Empire, and can claim their "Greek'ness" with this? The same way a Romanian can claim Roman decent? Someone explain to all of us how the Romei are Greeks and what their relation to ancient Greeks are. I can't for the life of me find anything. Because there are a stupid amount of sources that refer to Albanians speakers as Greeks from even as far as Nish and Montenegro.
Good day!
They called us Arnaut! All Albanians from Greece to Kosova were called Arnaut which is derived from Arberesh. The Kione speaking populations were called Romei. Bulgarians were sometimes called Romei. Even that was because of Romei influence in Ottoman Empire and the banning of Bulgarian in support of Kione in the provinces of Bulgaria. What you did in Greece didn't succeed there however.Hellenes or Romaioi
Hellenes are the Greeks
Romaioi are the Romans,
But with Christianity the The Term Hellenas Due to codexes Like CODEX THEODOSIANUS and others
and effort of Christians to Destroy everything Greek, books leather temples statues etc etc
and the camps of mass killing of Greek nobility (Scythopolis)
Greeks accepted the Roman citizenship and Christian religion
and the become citizens of EAST Roman empire ROMAIOI
there were written punishment if you claim Greek nationality = pagan till exile and death
but not if you Baptised christian = Roman you continue normal your life.
THE BIGGEST PROVE OF THAT IS EVEN TODAY TURKS CALLED THE REMNANTS OF BYZANTINE EMPIRE AS RUM
THEIR LANGUAGE RUMCA,
AND IN CENTRAL MAKEDONIA THEY CALLED THE GREEKS RUMLUK (ΡΩΜΥΛΙΑ-ROMYLIA)
officially termination Yunan and Yunanistan in pappers is after 1821 and Greek revolt
meaning 400 years of Ottoman occupation we were still Romans at pappers
Also same was in Albania
IS not Strange That Kastrioti claimed Prince of Epirus (HΗΠΕΙΡΟΣ) and Ematheia (ΗΜΑΘΕΙΑ) (clearly Greco-Roman see Byzantine-East empire words)
and a big % of modern Albanians are REMENII (Romans)
Same is also Rumania (Ρωμη-Ρωμανια) which has although Heavily Slavic admixture, Kept the East Roman empire identity
remember that Greek revolt started at Rumania not in Greece
any other post is away Thread and is just for negative provocative certain Reasons,
I ask the moderators to close the Thread.
cause it has gove wild
PS
there is a time and a place on planet which is named Greco-Roman world
They called us Arnaut! All Albanians from Greece to Kosova were called Arnaut which is derived from Arberesh. The Kione speaking populations were called Romei. Bulgarians were sometimes called Romei. Even that was because of Romei influence in Ottoman Empire and the banning of Bulgarian in support of Kione in the provinces of Bulgaria. What you did in Greece didn't succeed there however.
I explained 2 different point in time when Albanian speakers were referred to as Greek, while during the same time, the Kione speaking people were refereed to as Romei.
I will leave you with 2 amazing songs.
O e Bukura More(Peloponnese), an Arberesh song from Italy
https://youtu.be/e-Om6EuTJiE
Eduart Dema - Do ta Marr Nusen Came
https://youtu.be/h2LqrTxzllo
That is just sad. Majority of them came as refugees from Turkey. Look how they treat them for their hospitality. Despicable!Do you know that still today greeks call this Arvanites, arnautis? This term Arvanites you can find in books, forums, etc, in real life they are just arnautis and greeks hate them.
O e Bukura More(Peloponnese), an Arberesh song from Italy
Only this is enough to call you ignorant
The song is from Greece,
your proffesor in propaganda is not a good one,
No, the song is not from Greece, it's impossibile. The arbëresh community in South Italy is composed mostly from Albanians who arrived from Central and South Albania. There are also arbëresh who arrived in South Italy from Morea, Peloponnesus, Greece. And are exactly these who sing this song. So the song is not from Greece, but is dedicated to a region in Greece, Peloponnesus Peninsula, the region from which they came and this song say:
O More, O Arbëri.
Oh More(Peloponnesus) Oh Arbëri(Albania).
You have to organize your thoughts in a more coherent manner. Understandable since English is not your first language but you're just all over the place and I don't understand what you're saying.MODERATORS PLZ CLOSE-LOCKED THIS THREAD
IT HAS GONE VERY FAR FROM THREAD
PLZ
ΑΡΒΕΡΕΣ Arberes
The original foolowers of Maniakis general,
They came from S Italy and revolt against Con/polis
Their general Died outside Thessaloniki,
They moved south to Peloponese at 1040 AD and they create the village of Maniaki to honor their genaral
They inhabited the castle of Κορωνη,
their song say goodbuy Μωρεας we left behind our stuff at Κορωνη,
They were expelled by Bayezid 2 and Barbarossa Pasha after the fall of Corona 1500 AD and battle of Preveza (ANDREA DORIA) and moved to Sicelia and S Italy, 1534 AD
they made 3 villages
Piana Dei Greci
Hora Χωρα
Aγιος Δημητριος St Demetrio Corone
They are the real Arberes Arberesides
all the rest are just Albanians who moved to Italy
they had never been at Albania except when they dissemberk from S Italy against Con/polis
But your ignorance is so big,
cause you the stupidities of Kolla and Demou and Demopoulos
the last one strangely says that he speaks with me and mention my account name from this forum
and he does find an answer, only he claims and crup,
WATCH MY POSTS HERE
he copy paste them to his silly page and he says that I have mail discussion with him,
The man is just a crap, stop reading him
You have to organize your thoughts in a more coherent manner. Understandable since English is not your first language but you're just all over the place and I don't understand what you're saying.
You have to prove to us how you are Greek. Explain to us the process and history of how all these people from the Turkish provinces are Greek. What parts of Romei culture descent from Greek ones? So far, the story you are telling us is that you are Greek in the same way Americans are English? Or Romanians are Roman?
Heres an interesting fact:
Arbereshe - Ar ber eshe
Ar means gold in Albanian language
ber means made/ made of
eshe(eshte) means is
Arberesh means Made of Gold or more properly defined as, Golden People
Isn't this what ancient Greeks were called?
It's not Arberes. It is Arbereshe for the people and Arberi for the countries where Arbereshe live.you read too much science fiction,
or your mind run fast,
i have nothing to prove to your ignorance even about Arberes,
as you see you made a big mistake,
now leave at peace Arbanites,
cause they gain glory,
while Albanians did not,
and go serve the Ottomans, as your grandfather Vallavan pasha
remember the battle of Lalla,
and Lalla is not Adriatik one,
It's not Arberes. It is Arbereshe for the people and Arberi for the countries where Arbereshe live.
What is science fiction? Arbereshe is what all Albanians are. It is where the name of our country, Albania, comes from. And it's direct translation in English is Made of Gold. What about this is science fiction?
It's the Romei that served the Ottomans my small minded friend. Read into the history of the Romei in the Ottoman Empire and the privileges you had compared to everyone else.
Who is Vallavan Pasha? What do I, Albanians, or this thread have to do with this? And what about battle of Lalla do I have to remember?
Do you know why the Turks gave Gjergj Kastrioti the tittle Skenderbe? Iskander is what the Ottomans refereed to Alexander the Great.
Ahh I see....MAN ARE N"T YOU ASHAMED A BIT?
I can give you 10 -20 Arbanites and more that Have statues,, and took Glory By Revolt against Tukrs
Tell me on the other side
DID YOU ALBANINS MADE A STATUE FOR THE ARNAUT
OMER VRIONI ?
ISMAEL PASHA PLIACH?
Great Arnauts, General of the Sultan.
WHY DON"T YOU, THE SONS OF VALLAVAN PASHA MAKE A STATUE TO THEM,
THEY KILLED ARBANITES AND GREEKS WHICH YOU HATE SOM MUCH,
We Honor our heroes,
WHY YOU DON'T you do the same INSTEAD OF STEAL OUR HEROES?
like Omer Vrioni and Ismael Pasha Pliah The famous Arnaut generals
Go and make a monument to eponymous Pashas ones and the anonymous Arnauts who fought obeying Sultan,
Side by side with Ottomans against Greeks and Arbanites.
instead of stealing other peoples Glory.
AllyourpostsinThisforumarecrup,
AND THE ONLY Thing THEY SHOW, IS THAT YOU HATE GREEKS AND ARBANITES,
YOU HATE BOTH,
WHY?
CAUSE THEY TOOK THE GLORY, AND FIGHT FOR FREEDOM,
INSTEAD, YOU FIGHT OBEYING OTTOMANS, HIS MASTERS VOICE SULTAN.
and even today you do so.
Shame on you guys
but from the sons of Normando/Cumans and Vallavan pasha waht could wait?
the byzantine flag in battleThe "byzantine" empire was a Greek speaking empire called roman empire (the term byzantine was coined in modern times)and it was the eastern half of the roman empire that did not fall from the barbarian invasion.So the inhabitants were called romei meaning romans.
Now the albanians were part of the empire but they did feel like a minority because of the language and because the greek speaking elite saw non greeks(or not hellenised populations) as b-class citizents.In fact some emperors even if they were greek speakers were called by their place of origin ( the paflagonian or the isaurian)by their enemies as disrespect.So the albanians (and other populations as well)did not really have the oportunity to become a high rank officer.The mother of basileios the second for example called the emperial guard captain a"skythian" as disrespect.So it is normal that albanians did not call themselves romei.But all this is just theory as you really can not know how the albanians called them selves back then as there was not an albanian alphabet until 1900 so we really do not have a lot of sources about you guys.Maybe you used both terms romei and albanians.And for sure i would not bet about how kastrioti called him self, seeing that he used the byzantine in battle.
The "byzantine" empire was a Greek speaking empire called roman empire (the term byzantine was coined in modern times)and it was the eastern half of the roman empire that did not fall from the barbarian invasion.So the inhabitants were called romei meaning romans.
Now the albanians were part of the empire but they did feel like a minority because of the language and because the greek speaking elite saw non greeks(or not hellenised populations) as b-class citizents.In fact some emperors even if they were greek speakers were called by their place of origin ( the paflagonian or the isaurian)by their enemies as disrespect.So the albanians (and other populations as well)did not really have the oportunity to become a high rank officer.The mother of basileios the second for example called the emperial guard captain a"skythian" as disrespect.So it is normal that albanians did not call themselves romei.But all this is just theory as you really can not know how the albanians called them selves back then as there was not an albanian alphabet until 1900 so we really do not have a lot of sources about you guys.Maybe you used both terms romei and albanians.And for sure i would not bet about how kastrioti called him self, seeing that he used the byzantine in battle.
the byzantine flag in battle
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