36,200YBP European genome

[Alan]

Interesting comments. Here are the Eurogenes15, Dodecad12b, and DodecadV3 results for Ust' Ishim, Kostenki14 and Mal'ta:

Eurogenes15	Ust'-Ishim	Kostenki 14	Mal'ta		Dodecad K12b	Ust'-Ishim	Kostenki 14	Mal'ta		Dodecad V3	Ust'-Ishim	Kostenki 14	Mal'ta
North_Sea	-	18.81%	15.91%		Gedrosia	9.58%	12.38%	24.39%		East_European	4.55%	11.89%	20.03%
Atlantic	11.24%	12.39%	-		Siberian	2.70%	3.78%	13.55%		West_European	8.95%	30.62%	37.68%
Baltic	-	6.52%	6.54%		Northwest_African	2.58%	1.65%	-		Mediterranean	4.94%	15.55%	-
Eastern_Euro	3.08%	9.71%	38.02%		Southeast_Asian	13.76%	6.12%	-		Neo_African	3.76%	1.43%	0.38%
West_Med	4.82%	9.77%	-		Atlantic_Med	6.82%	21.46%	-		West_Asian	-	0.63%	-
West_Asian	-	-	-		North_European	7.39%	28.80%	47.46%		South_Asian	30.85%	17.75%	26.04%
East_Med	-	-	-		South_Asian	31.50%	15.70%	14.36%		Northeast_Asian	5.96%	4.58%	15.53%
Red_Sea	3.36%	5.70%	-		East_African	8.24%	3.87%	-		Southeast_Asian	21.76%	6.72%	-
South_Asian	30.76%	17.42%	20.31%		Southwest_Asian	3.36%	4.95%	-		East_African	7.03%	1.92%	-
Southeast_Asian	15.25%	1.33%	-		East_Asian	8.40%	0.15%	-		Southwest_Asian	3.86%	4.61%	-
Siberian	2.02%	0.66%	-		Caucasus	-	-	-		Northwest_African	3.25%	2.07%	-
Amerindian	2.20%	4.74%	18.62%		Sub_Saharan	5.67%	1.15%	0.24%		Palaeo_African	5.10%	2.24%	0.34%
Oceanian	10.96%	5.11%	0.12%
Northeast_African	10.08%	5.19%	-
Sub-Saharan	6.22%	2.66%	0.47%

None of them have the K12b Caucasus component, or the Eurogenes15 West_Asian or East_Med components, and Kostenki14 has just 0.63% of the West_Asian component in Dodecad V3.

My first thought when seeing the Eurogenes15 results for Kostenki14 was that it was contamination, but now seeing how they all lack that Caucasus / Near Eastern component makes me think it is the real deal. Why it's missing that area, and seeing how Kostenki14 is so close to there geographically though is intriguing.

The explanatio n is simple, "Gedrosia" is more of the "West Asian" component than "Caucasus" is.

Gedrosia is 90% "West Asian" of K7b + 10% "ANI".

Caucasus is ~55% "West Asian", *37% "Southern" and ~8% Atlantic_Baltic. This is why Ötzi showed in some calculators NO West Asian but in K12b some "Caucasus". It is the "Southern" portion inside Caucasus which shows up and not the West Asian portion but for some kind of reason people seem to never understand that. The West Asian portion of Mal'ta is much more of the Gedrosia type, which makes quite sense since Gedrosia is the "purer" portion of "West Asian" and which is much more widespred in South_Central and East Asia compared to Caucasus.

Also as I wrote earlier. In Eurogenes 15 and Dodecad v3 the West Asian (Gedrosia) gets eaten up by South Asian and some of the other West Asian portions get eaten up by various "North European" components.

We know that from the Lazaridis paper where North Caucasians who score high in ANE are shown with almost 40% (North)"European" ( Most Caucasians have 20-26% North European the rest must be Caucasus which has been labeled under European) and substantial South Asian (which they in reality lack and can be only explained with that Gedrosia has been put under the South Asian label).

Davidski made it's own run with a differen't calculator on Mal'ta genome. And he came to the conclusion that the sample can be explained as 30% North European like, 25% Caucasus_Gedrosia(more Gedrosia than Caucasus) like, 25% Amerindian like and the rest was ASI and Southeast Asian like.

 

[Angela]

I'm not disagreeing with the Lazardis model for the peopling of Europe. I'm just pointing out that the Middle Eastern early farmers who mixed with some other group (possibly Balkan hunter gatherers) to produce EEF must have evolved away somewhat from any group of basal Eurasians that contributed to the genes of Kostenki 14, as a result of other gene flow and/or genetic drift during the intervening thousands of years between Kostenki 14 and the first Middle Eastern farmers. So perhaps Lazardis should have called his group something else, such as "derived from basal Eurasians".

Or, the Willerslev Lab paper is just wrong in parts of its analysis and has confused the issue. The more that the paper sort of percolates away on a back burner in my brain, the less confident I am of some of those conclusions.

I think further resolution is going to have to wait until we have more ancient samples, particularly from the ancient Near East, and hopefully from South Asia, but just generally we may indeed be looking at a situation where there was a first split after OOA (the Lazaridis "Basal Eurasian"), and then subsequent differentiation of the remaining lineage. What Willerslev and company are calling "basal" in K14 might just reflect ancestry further up the tree from La Brana, Loschbour, Motala and even ANE, ancestry which is more similar to the "Basal" in Stuttgart and therefore in the Ancient Near Eastern farmers from whom EEF received it.

As for the "African" affinity in the Lazaridis "Basal Eurasian", I think it partly stems from the fact that as the first split in the tree it's bound to have more similarities to that original lineage even if there was a lot of subsequent drift. (The other lineage(s) are, of course, experiencing their own drift.)

Adding to that is the fact that increasingly it looks to me as if the speculation that Y dna "E" formed in West Asia and then back migrated to Africa might be correct. Even in the Yoruba, there are traces of what has been called "West Eurasian" but may be "Basal" Eurasian. That's not to say that over thousands of years some additional "African" might not have seeped north into the Near East and then onward, just as some "African" seeped north, I think, through North Africa, up through Iberia, especially the western portion, and then through the whole western facade of Europe, although by that point the signal would have been much weaker. That's why IBD analysis shows the most SSA in Iberia, (followed, in Europe, by Sicily etc.) The East Africans are also an example of the back and forth migrations from West Asia and Africa, the most recent of which has to do with the Arab slave trade.

To me, it thus does indeed look as if there were a lot of migrations and admixtures throughout human history, ( look at South Asia, for example) which is why I so disagree with Willerslev's comments in Science about people just basically staying put and breeding at the edges. Has he looked at the journey that the y lineages alone have made?)

I do agree that the names for some of these more ancient components probably need to be re-worked once the relationships are clearer.

 

[Angela]

http://genetiker.wordpress.com/2014/11/14/analyses-of-the-kostenki-14-genome/[/URL]

Very confusing. I've only gone through the Willerslev Lab paper once, but I didn't see anything about phenotype. Did they feel the coverage was too spotty to make pronouncements?

On the other hand, in reporting there is this in the Science interview with Willerslev:

See:
http://news.sciencemag.org/archaeol...genetic-identity-may-stretch-back-36000-years

"From the sequence data, they found gene variants indicating that the man had dark skin and eyes."

 

[LeBrok]

Very confusing. I've only gone through the Willerslev Lab paper once, but I didn't see anything about phenotype. Did they feel the coverage was too spotty to make pronouncements?

On the other hand, in reporting there is this in the Science interview with Willerslev:

See:
http://news.sciencemag.org/archaeol...genetic-identity-may-stretch-back-36000-years

"From the sequence data, they found gene variants indicating that the man had dark skin and eyes."

I wonder if Prairie Indians or any Northern Natives, DNA was sequenced in America, and what color of skin we can infer from their DNA? They are not dark skinned, although a bit darker than most Europeans.
Their hunter gatherer origin would imply dark or medium brown skin colour, if our knowledge of skin color alleles is fairly good. I'm sure they don't have much of farmer DNA in them, and some tribes met first white man 100 years ago. Not enough time to distribute skin color genes through entire communities.

 

[JS Bach]

I wonder if Prairie Indians or any Northern Natives, DNA was sequenced in America, and what color of skin we can infer from their DNA? They are not dark skinned, although a bit darker than most Europeans.
Their hunter gatherer origin would imply dark or medium brown skin colour, if our knowledge of skin color alleles is fairly good. I'm sure they don't have much of farmer DNA in them, and some tribes met first white man 100 years ago. Not enough time to distribute skin color genes through entire communities.

Some food for thought -- According to Genetiker, both Afontova Gora 2 and Motala 12 (19% ANE) had both copies of the derived allele for rs1426654:

"Mal’ta 1 had two copies of the ancestral allele of rs1426654, but Afontova Gora 2 had two copies of the derived allele. This SNP is located in the gene SLC24A5, and its derived allele is one of the two major Caucasoid depigmentation mutations. The other major Caucasoid depigmentation mutation is the derived allele of rs16891982, in the gene SLC45A2.

So we now know that Stora Förvar 11, who lived 7,500 years ago in Sweden, had the SLC45A2 mutation, and that Motala 12, who lived 8,000 years ago in Sweden, and Afontova Gora 2, who lived 17,000 years ago in Siberia, had the SLC24A5 mutation."

http://genetiker.wordpress.com/2014...np-genotypes-for-malta-1-and-afontova-gora-2/

Here's where he says Motala 12 had both copies of the derived allele of rs1426654: http://genetiker.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/pigmentation-snp-genotypes-for-motala-hunter-gatherers/

 

[epoch]

The derived allels for K14's phenotype are:

• ASIP rs2424984 TC Veddoid brown skin
• MC1R rs1805007 TC red hair, fair skin
• OCA2 rs1800414 CC Mongoloid light skin
• TYR rs1393350 GA blond hair, blue eyes

No KITLG, TYRP or any of the more modern variations. Also, he appears to have had:

• MCM6 rs182549 CT ability to digest milk

Found on the page of Genetiker.

Furthermore, in the reaction thingy of eurogenes Srkz has put up an IBD map of K14:

http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2014/1...howComment=1416037667868#c6921458547770022451

 

[ElHorsto]

The derived allels for K14's phenotype are:

• ASIP rs2424984 TC Veddoid brown skin
• MC1R rs1805007 TC red hair, fair skin
• OCA2 rs1800414 CC Mongoloid light skin
• TYR rs1393350 GA blond hair, blue eyes

No KITLG, TYRP or any of the more modern variations. Also, he appears to have had:

• MCM6 rs182549 CT ability to digest milk

Found on the page of Genetiker.

Furthermore, in the reaction thingy of eurogenes Srkz has put up an IBD map of K14:

http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2014/1...howComment=1416037667868#c6921458547770022451

So whole Europe is close to maximally red, except Basques, Sardinians, Ashkenazi (not so strong), Erzya and Udmurts. Some slight weakness seems to be also in Saami, Karelians, Estonian and Veps. Probably Finns would also show some slight weakness. All these folks are non-IE speakers. Else only Yugoslavs show a very slight weakness if I can see it right.
Bashkiria (R1b land) is max. red, same for Balts and eastern Slavs (R1a land).
And then there is that trail down to north India.

 

[Angela]

So whole Europe is close to maximally red, except Basques, Sardinians, Ashkenazi (not so strong), Erzya and Udmurts. Some slight weakness seems to be also in Saami, Karelians, Estonian and Veps. Probably Finns would also show some slight weakness. All these folks are non-IE speakers. Else only Yugoslavs show a very slight weakness if I can see it right.
Bashkiria (R1b land) is max. red, same for Balts and eastern Slavs (R1a land).
And then there is that trail down to north India.

I also thought that perhaps it was carried by the Indo-Europeans, but while I see what you mean where the Basques are concerned, I thought Sardinia looked pretty "red". Of course, especially in recent years, there's been a lot of input from the mainland. You don't have the language difference as a barrier the way you do with the Basques.

 

[ElHorsto]

I also thought that perhaps it was carried by the Indo-Europeans, but while I see what you mean where the Basques are concerned, I thought Sardinia looked pretty "red". Of course, especially in recent years, there's been a lot of input from the mainland. You don't have the language difference as a barrier the way you do with the Basques.

Not quite. Sardinia is brown compared to Italy. (click to enlarge)


Also it's probable that Spaniards as neighbours of Basques also have a bit less red color, but I'm not sure.

 

[MOESAN]

probably more than half of Europeans descend from R1b-L11 or I1 or R1a-Z282 and TRMC of the eldest these 3 is probably no more than 6000 years
EEF-WHG-ANE was invented to compare todays populations with genomes of some 8000 years old skeletons of which I allready doubt relevance
we're waisting our time trying to explain our relations with skeletons 20000 years old or older
most single skeletons 20000 years old or even 8000 years old are extinct lines, so they are only linked with todays populations through their ancestors who are several 1000's years older again[/QUOTE

assumption - how can you say they are extinct lines?: it could be the case, but a lot of autosomals common to them have surely been passed to further generations by their brethren, or I mistake? the majority of autosomals -biallelic- don't undergo the same destiny and rapid drift as Y-haplogroups - some genes disappear (mutate) but not all of them - it's not always the same genes which are transmitted to individual descendants but as a whole the populational origin assumed to these passed genes is not erased so quickly ? (sorry for the my limited english)

 

[Angela]

El Horsto: Not quite. Sardinia is brown compared to Italy. (click to enlarge)

Yes, with better resolution, you're right.

It's a little off in terms of strict correlation with ANE, perhaps because it's a combination signal with both WHG and ANE, and a little of other things as well? ANE for Sardinians is 8%, for Basques it's .114, which is actually a little more than for north Italy, which is .108.

Look at this old Cavalli-Sforza map based only on blood proteins:
http://www.bmanuel.org/corling/euIt_comp3++_.jpg

Unfortunately, Sardinia isn't included.

 

[Angela]

MOESAN:
assumption - how can you say they are extinct lines?: it could be the case, but a lot of autosomals common to them have surely been passed to further generations by their brethren, or I mistake? the majority of autosomals -biallelic- don't undergo the same destiny and rapid drift as Y-haplogroups - some genes disappear (mutate) but not all of them - it's not always the same genes which are transmitted to individual descendants but as a whole the populational origin assumed to these passed genes is not erased so quickly ? (sorry for the my limited english)

I agree. Loschbour and Stuttgart may be 8.000 years old, but our genomes can be compared to theirs, and we can know how much of them is in us.

That said, when we're talking about an ancient genome 36,000 years old, and there has been so much admixture and combinations since then, I think all we can get is hints about possible influences. I'm amazed that figuring out the "tree" at such time depth so engages so many amateurs.

 

[Greying Wanderer]

I agree. Loschbour and Stuttgart may be 8.000 years old, but our genomes can be compared to theirs, and we can know how much of them is in us.

That said, when we're talking about an ancient genome 36,000 years old, and there has been so much admixture and combinations since then, I think all we can get is hints about possible influences. I'm amazed that figuring out the "tree" at such time depth so engages so many amateurs.

I don't know. I think figuring out the very ancient patterns with dna might turn out to be easier than figuring out the modern pattern because as you say there will be fewer layers - although I expect it will be easier when there are enough ancient samples to compare with each other rather than trying to work backwards from more modern populations with more layers. In the interim though using modern populations to try and tease out clues is fun imo.

 

[MOESAN]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]

Looking at some ancient genomes through Eurogenes15, it'sstriking how Mal'ta lacks the Atlantic component that Ust'-Ishim has:[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Seeingas Mal'ta was Y-dna R, this leads me away from thinking the Atlanticcomponent is associated with R. Although I understand how weakcorrelations between uni-parental and autosomal markers are thesedays, maybe in ancient times those associations werestronger.

[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]surprisesoccur more than a time:
1- some links between today well separatedpopulations can be due to ancient continuum disrupted by a morerecent colonisation-
2- even if a kind of continuum existed it canbreak down by time and geography distances and if a big enough stockof common genes existed before some discrepancies can occurconsidering the human populations were very scarce in old time -
3-a very more recent colonisation can have brought some % of genes of aremote population (see the 'gedrosia' question in NorthwestEurope)
that said, globally, Ust-Ishim is MORE SOUTHERN thanMalta, MORE ANCIENT, and the genes present among Atlantic people canbe linked to their ANCIENT MEDITERRANEAN statute more than to theireven MORE ANCIENT Hunter Gatherer COMPONANT [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]evenif there is cohabitation of the two sources...- [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]I'msure already evolved 'mediterraneans' occuped South and WesternEurope BEFORE Neolithic (see the second Mesolithic of some studiesjust preceding and pushed by Neolithic advance in mediterraneancoastal areas before climbing towards Northwest Europe ; it'sonly one of the possible introgressions of southern people in westernEurope ; but people of Muge Portugal (mesolithic) already shewsoutheastern accretions in morphology I cannot see as in situevolution) -
[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]somenaive speculations for the fun :[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]'gedrosia'is one of the good questions : U-I, K14 and M'ta have a good bitof it when they present NO 'caucasus' at all in the same Dod-K12B andno 'west-asian' in other run, that said, it's the younger M'ta whohas the more spite its geographic eastern position, when the olderU-I has the lesser – so 'gedrosia could be a former element (if notall) in 'west-asian' or 'caucasus' but born by some previouspool come from where? - at first sight it gained weight by timeand was the heavier among the lattest population, M'ta, situated inCentral-Eastern Asia (Siberia) – the more sensible would be,believe, that the 'gedrosia' componant taking size underwent a lot ofmutations after the 22000 BC giving birth to the 'caucasus' and themutated part of 'west-asian' ? In some way 'gedrosia' doesn'tseem the direct recent heir of a 'southernwhite' componant and seemshaving grown in a northeastern enough region compared to today'caucasian' or « white » populations... so a « steppic »componant ?!? its today distribution among principallyindo-european speaking [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]todayor past populations[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif](I think here to the turkicized ones as the Turkmen) of western Asiais maybe not a hazard ? (look at Celts and Northern-Germanics) –and it could be that the pooled 'westasian' component would be a mixof 'southernwhite' and 'gedrosia' more or less mutated ? Thatsaid as a whole the 'southasian' seems ancient enough and could havegiven birth to 'gedrosia' with a drift more northern ??? - heresomething very speculative : an ancient 'south-asian' (not thetoday specialized one) pool gave birth to 'gedrosia' which climbednorthwards and later was pushed southwards giving birth to caucasusvariant of 'westasian not without some mix with 'southwest-asian'???[/FONT]



[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]linkedquestions : no 'east-med' in any of the 3, but more'northeast-africa' and more 'east-africa' among the older U-I ANDalso a bit 'mediter' among U-I (but after K14) and/or always afterK14, a bit 'red-sea' or 'southwest-asian' among U-I ; shorltysaid, M-ta doesn't show any of the 'white-southern' or'red-sea-mediterranean-junction' pools, when otherwise the order isalways K14 before U-I... - could I say the 'east-med' is one of theevolutions of 'red-sea' (linked to 'northeast-africa'?)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]'atlantic'et 'atlantic-med' : same order : K14 >> U-I, and 0%for M'ta = here the 'atlantic' has the same tendancies as othersouthern poolings - [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]sothe older men had southern components but little northern ones – 2hypothesis : a) the northern componants, present at Mesolithicin Europe, are derived from older 'southernlike' components OR b)they existed more easternly (came from N-India ???) based onother basic component and increased between 43000 and 36000 beforegoing more westwards - [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]:couldbe linked more to an ancient basic composition of 'westasian'('gedrosia' is present only among ANE and ANE is very North-Northeastdrifted) ...
I think we are all related, and that more recenttypes matured lately by different mutations + selections of geneswith a previous vaste from near-eastern to East-India (?) and twosecondary centers : Caucasus-Near-Eastern and Eastern Eurasia -the tendancy is to fragment at first as populations grow up andsedentarize - the first layer of men, spred on a larger scale, wasmaybe centered closer to North-India, but covered lands from Siberiato Western Europe before new hearths appeared?
what I say issummarized by the fact Ust-Ishim spans more today population and hadlinks with Oceanians (very primitivelike and apparently born by afirst wave out of Africa without staying too long time inNear-Eastern-Arabia) but also to Africans and East Asians -
heis surely [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]not[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif] theresult of crossings of already as evolved populations as our modernones ! - [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]bythe way, Mal'ta is the younger in the team and it's not so surprisingto find in it Y-R which is a well evolved and severely mutated groupof ligneages – plus : the 'asian' components it shows areaccording to less-to-more detailed poolings : 'northasian', or'siberian', or 'amerindian' this last one canbe a a late enoughevolution in situ or a return from America ??? (only precisestudies can answer that, what is outside my present play)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]inprovisary conclusion of this profane 's exercice of mine withouttraced ligneages of genes nor « distances » calculation :some components apparently recently present could be the evolution inan human group or the result of an admixture with a foreign group...
[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]somesupra-populations groupings by myself (only partly reliable):[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]southwestern-whites :[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Euro15 :K : 18,09 // U-I : 14,60 // M'ta : 0,00 [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]DodK12b :K : 26,41 // U-I : 10,18 // M'ta : 0,00[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Dod-V13 :K : 20,16 // U-I : 8,80 // M'ta:0,00[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]southasian :[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Euro15 :U-I : 30,76 // M'ta : 20,31 // K :17,42[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]DodK12b :U-I : 31,50 // K : 15,70 // M'ta : 14,36 !!![/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Dod-V13 :U-I : 30,85 // M'ta: 26,04 // K : 17,75[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]+[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]gedrosia :[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]DodK12b :M'ta : 24,39 // K : 12,38 // U-I : 9,58[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]+[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]centersouthasian :[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]DodK12b :M'ta : 50,43 / U-I : 40,43 // K : 30,13[/FONT]



[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]north-northeasteuropean :[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Euro15 :M'ta : 60, 47 // K : 35,04 // U-I : 3,08[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]DodK12b :M'ta : 47,46 // K : 28,80 // U-I : 7,39[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Dod-V3 :M'ta : 37,68 // K : 30,62 // U-I : 8,95 [/FONT]

 

[JS Bach]

There's a new Eurogenes youtube channel that has a video depicting the Eurogenes15 breakdown of a dozen-or-so ancient European genomes, as well as breakdowns of some modern population groups here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n58rgWVUups The only component that shows up in all of the genomes is the Atlantic component. The first two genomes they present are the Hunter-Gatherers: Motala12 and Loschbour (both about 7,500 ybp.) Motala12 has about 10% Atlantic, and Loschbour has a little under 30% Atlantic. They both also have high percentages of the North Sea and Baltic components. In contrast, the farmers clearly do tend to have more of the Atlantic component, compared with the North Sea, Baltic, and East Euro components. So certainly the Atlantic component is associated with the Neolithic farmers, but it's also associated with the Hunter-Gatherers as well, as Motala12 and Loschbour indicate. I wonder what more ancient Western European genomes will show in the future?

 

[Alan]

Look what I found

So basically as I thought. The best genetic proxy for Ancient North Eurasians were the Kalash.

 

[JS Bach]

I like that graph. Notice how the ANE component is yellow. I wonder if it was the component that brought the blond hair. The south-western European countries with low ANE don't have high blond hair rates. It's interesting how the ANE proportions are relatively uniform among the rest of the European countries there. Some of the Kalash have blond hair - just google it. It would be nice to have the results for Afontova Gora 2 there too. Also, the Mal'ta boy's genes suggest he would have had brown hair (I guess rather than black): http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/21/s...nd-buried-in-siberia.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 Maybe blond hair came about with ANE in Siberia there.

 

[LeBrok]

I don't really buy it. Till we get a genome of real NEF we should get carried away with this. They could be related to WHG somewhat and this would make NEF genom proportion bigger in Europeans.
What is with the naming anyway? "Asian Steppe Invaders"? They didn't invade the steppe. They were from the steppe.

 

[Alan]

I like that graph. Notice how the ANE component is yellow. I wonder if it was the component that brought the blond hair. The south-western European countries with low ANE don't have high blond hair rates. It's interesting how the ANE proportions are relatively uniform among the rest of the European countries there. Some of the Kalash have blond hair - just google it. It would be nice to have the results for Afontova Gora 2 there too. Also, the Mal'ta boy's genes suggest he would have had brown hair (I guess rather than black): http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/21/s...nd-buried-in-siberia.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 Maybe blond hair came about with ANE in Siberia there.

Unlikely that ANE brought Blond Hair, because the very first European to have the combination of light eyes, skin and hair was a farmer from Hungary. I don't think that these traits collerate with some ancient components. It's more of an "Caucasian" thing. And could have evolved in groups with various backgrounds.

 

[JS Bach]

Unlikely that ANE brought Blond Hair, because the very first European to have the combination of light eyes, skin and hair was a farmer from Hungary.

Good point. I assume you mean NE7. He doesn't appear to have any ANE.