Structure of Ydna December 2014

Oh, so ISOGG isn't wrong, just really sloppy in showing R* under R-M207. But you haven't explained why you think that. And please - no more nonsense about R* not being R because R* is an extinct line, because that idea is just sile. If you think Mal'ta Boy was actually somewhere between P and R, please explain the science of it. I'd really like to understand why you think ISOGG was either mistaken or sloppy in saying R=M207 and that R* is a subset of M207. If there's a reason why you don't agree, you should be able to explain

read maciano paper in this forum

http://dienekes.blogspot.be/2013/11/a-priori-y-chromosome-phylogeny-from.html

mal'ta is reclassified by some from R* to MA-1
 
I am sure as Genetics is at its infancy there will be modifications to classes of Haplogroups as vanished groups are hypothesized and placed in between or ahead of the "known and present Haplogroups". There are gaps in the migrations and many groups vanished when the seas rose 300 feet. Of course, it was the closing of the North and South American continents that created the Gulf Stream which is probably the main cause of ending the Ice Age. The rise of the seas was gradual taking 23,000 years as was the continental movements 2 inches a year for a continent.
 
read maciano paper in this forum

http://dienekes.blogspot.be/2013/11/a-priori-y-chromosome-phylogeny-from.html

mal'ta is reclassified by some from R* to MA-1

I'd gladly read Maciamo's paper if you tell me where to find it - no doubt that would finally provide some clarity. But the article by Dienekes that you linked to says that scientists have discovered that there was a Y haplotype MP that lead to M and P (which led to Q and R) and it says that Mal'ta Boy was R. Scientists refer to him as MA-1 rather than Mal'ta Boy and MA-2 refers to the other set of remains found in the area that was less well preserved. These are not references to haplotypes. Is that what you've been on about all this time? LOL!
 
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Usht'-Ishim was K-M526 + 2 out of 7 SNPs for haplo X (pre-NO)
This was after split from MP and after split from LT
MP is ancestral to P and hence also to Q and R

LT split off , from K , way before MPS was created........it was not the same time.
 
Here, we favoured a
rate (1.0 x 10-9/bp/year) estimated directly from NGS analysis of MSY sequences in a deeprooting
pedigree (Xue et al. 2009). Though the direct nature of the analysis and the proven
transmission of newly arising variants are positive features, the study’s major disadvantage is
that its mutation rate rests on only four observations. These numbers will improve as other
resequencing studies are published, but meanwhile other studies (Mendez et al. 2013;
Scozzari et al. 2014) have taken the genome-wide de novo mutation rate (based on a larger
number of observations) and scaled it to account for male-specific transmission, thus inferring
slower rates of 0.62 x 10-9 (Mendez et al. 2013) or 0.64 x 10-9 (Scozzari et al. 2014). Criticism
of this approach (Elhaik et al. 2014) has been based on its indirect nature, and the fact that the
resulting rates are at odds with phylogenetic mutation rate estimates (1.5 – 2.1 x 10-9 /bp/year
(Skaletsky et al. 2003; Kuroki et al. 2006)) based on human-chimpanzee MSY comparisons.
Calibration based on archaeological dates and assumptions about colonisation history (such as
the peopling of the Americas (Poznik et al. 2013) or of Sardinia (Francalacci et al. 2013))
has also been applied, although it introduces other sources of uncertainty. Further analysis of
deep-rooting pedigrees, combined with accumulating data on well-dated ancient DNA, should
help to give more reliable mutation rate estimates in the near future.

I would favour the slower rates of 0.62 or 0.64

when KLT split apart, LT became P326 and K became known as M526 ..................they split of the same time.

the LT branch was reclassified as K1 and the K-M526 was reclassified as K2
 

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