The Celts were G2a2b2a1b L497 ( Hallstatt Y-DNA from Mitterkirchen, Upper Austria 700

Y-R1b-U152 in Rhaetic lands OK but when? today surely, but before ? an then in what valleys ? -
and Rhaetia was large enough: I red it had been settled by 2 populations (2 langu- celtic + etruscanlike )
 
but I agree it's not surprising finding some Y-G2 among late Celts
 
MOESAN said:
Y-R1b-U152 in Rhaetic lands OK but when? today surely, but before ? an then in what valleys ? -
and Rhaetia was large enough: I red it had been settled by 2 populations (2 langu- celtic + etruscanlike )
Click to expand...

just remember, raetic, like etruscan, illyrian, thracian, angels, saxons , ligurians, iberian etc etc have an ethnicity...........celtic like slavic have no ethnicity, they only have language and culture
 
Sile said:
wrong

the Roman invasion of the raeti people started in 15BC..........they where the last area of the alps the roman invaded, if they where Celts or gallic the Romans would have attacked very early like they did in the po valleys and Gaul............the Romans never trusted the Gauls and celts

2nd error..........Bohemia is not in the alps............get a map and look
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I know where is Bohemia, G2-L497 is also in Czech republic( in Bohemia)


Did you even read what I wrote?

Tyrol from the mid-6th century was resettled by Germanic Bavarii tribes.

Bavarii or Baiuvarii was the term for the population of theBohemian Forest area (which had been the territory of theBoii during antiquity) from the 6th century; the name is Latinized from a possible self-designation *Baio-warioz, as it were "men of Bohemia", where "Bohemia" (boio-hemum) in origin refers to the "home of the Boii".

G2-L497 is also in Bohemia in Southern Poland in Slovakia in Hungaria
 
Robert6 said:
Hallstatt are early Celts
Click to expand...

Hallstatt is invasion/migration of the first Celts from their original homleand of Central Germany. They formed a union with the Illyrians of Noricum . The Nori an Illyrian tribe , became celtinized and renamed Norici ....................Nori/norici created Noric steel.............when and where Noric steel first started is unknown. But Greek scholars state that noric steel swords came via the ister ( danube river ) through Euxine sea ( black sea ) to greek lands.
 
Sile said:
Hallstatt is invasion/migration of the first Celts from their original homleand of Central Germany. They formed a union with the Illyrians of Noricum . The Nori an Illyrian tribe , became celtinized and renamed Norici ....................Nori/norici created Noric steel.............when and where Noric steel first started is unknown. But Greek scholars state that noric steel swords came via the ister ( danube river ) through Euxine sea ( black sea ) to greek lands.
Click to expand...
Early Celts(Hallstatt) is Iron age invasion, before the Iron age appeared in central Europe it was in Balkans and in Caucasus.
IE people in Balkans Caucasus and Iran learned how to work with Iron from Anatolians.


Also Cimmerians(Novocherkassk culture) in Early Iron age came to Steppes.
(Thraco-Cimmerian artifacts appear rather to spread from the Koban culture of the Caucasus and northern Georgia)


Iskuza the ancestors of Scythians came with Iron weapons to steppes from the borders of Urartu
first writing system of Scythians was the Luwian Hieroglyphics(Saqqez inscription, about Partitava, first Scythian King)


So not only the IE Balkanians had contacts with Anatolians but also Scythians and other Iranians had contacts with them.
 
Robert6 said:
Hallstatt are early Celts
Click to expand...

1- it's not sure Hallstatt was everywhere ethnic Celts + 2- the today consensus (I find reasonable) is Celts had already colonized West Europe before Iron - the Hallstatt period saw new types (metrics) about 25% among Tumuli people of S-Germany, surely an eastern influx (partial Illyrian imput?)-

all that is not new at all
 
Sile said:
just remember, raetic, like etruscan, illyrian, thracian, angels, saxons , ligurians, iberian etc etc have an ethnicity...........celtic like slavic have no ethnicity, they only have language and culture
Click to expand...


REMEMBER ?
all these tribes had a kind of ethnicity at some stage of their history after it became less clear for some of them.
Celts and Slavs as well as the others
historic Etruscans an ethnic homogene group? do you believe it?
and even well mixed, Slavs and Celts seem having left more genetic traces upon large spaces than did Etruscans in the small Toscana
you have personal ways to read history -
all that doesn't give any clue about Celts <> Y-G2a
 
MOESAN said:
REMEMBER ?
all these tribes had a kind of ethnicity at some stage of their history after it became less clear for some of them.
Celts and Slavs as well as the others
historic Etruscans an ethnic homogene group? do you believe it?
and even well mixed, Slavs and Celts seem having left more genetic traces upon large spaces than did Etruscans in the small Toscana
you have personal ways to read history -
all that doesn't give any clue about Celts <> Y-G2a
Click to expand...

I answer myself, I know I will be tolerant !

Iron Age tribes arrived (and let'sremember Iron appeared lately in a lot of places without too muchdemic moves) in an Europe which was already well populated(demographic boom and all directions moves during Urnfield Period ina lot of regions) – the elite tombs and strong hyerarchic soceityshow a relativey « wild » and « infantile »spirit of south-steppic form, but at La Tène it found again previoussituations more local and less hyerarchic – these new tribes orrather ne elites could not in Western Europe give way to the largeextension of all celtic languages nor even all italic ones – onlyit could permit (my modest hypothesis) some changes introduced inclose dialects like the Qw- >> P- shift...
maybe the Y-U152 in Croatia (apparentlyone of the highest internal % of U152 compared to all Y- R1b) datefrom Hallstatt time and would prove West-to-East movements showingHalsstatt gave BUT received too after a starting period ? A backmove of reinforced Celts before more eastern rovings?Speculation here...
some new people came and moved at Iron(we have traces of it, even physical remnants as in Denmark), butthey were in great part absorbed later - concerning genetic - even ifthey kept the leadership some time -
 
G-L497 is not Austrian

Well, I have been following some good discussions about G haplogroup on Facebook and FTDNA. It seems that, in recent months, some progress has been made in conjectures concerning its evolution in time and space, thanks to a higher number of YDNA sequencing data, SNP testing etc. As reference, here is a very recent update from the expert R. Banks: sites.google.com/site/haplogroupgproject/-european-migrations

Update: Now he's suggesting that L497, which has the most G data now, is very European, and "also shows the major splitting from inside a small group also during the European Bronze Age". According to him, L497 may have come from Northern Caucasus with the Corded Ware culture or after it, both showing much "the same distribution today that was ascribed to the Celts when names were finally applied to the Bronze Age peoples". Still in his words, "the Celtic distribution and the Corded Ware people have heavy geographical overlaps", and L497 "did arrive on w. Mediterranean islands and western Scandinavia, but it is not clear if this was from the initial spread or secondary".
 
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G-L497 is found in small numbers in Western Anatolia

mihaitzateo said:
G2-L497 is found only in Europe.
Click to expand...
(...)
"It seems that G-L497, which is one of the most 'European' of haplogroups, spread out from Western Anatolia (where it's found in small numbers) to the Danube Basin with the First Farmers, around 8400-7800 years ago.So far, the earliest branches of L497 are found in Italy and the Netherlands. The Anatolian and Aegean L497s are more 'derived' (further down the tree in G-Z725)."
(...)
Reference (remove blank spaces): w w w .marres.education/haplogroup_G.htm
 
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cattel said:
Well, I have been following some good discussions about G haplogroup on Facebook and FTDNA. It seems that, in recent months, some progress has been made in conjectures concerning its evolution in time and space, thanks to a higher number of YDNA sequencing data, SNP testing etc. As reference, here is a very recent update from the expert R. Banks: sites.google.com/site/haplogroupgproject/-european-migrations

Update: Now he's suggesting that L497, which has the most G data now, is very European, and "also shows the major splitting from inside a small group also during the European Bronze Age". According to him, L497 may have come from Northern Caucasus with the Corded Ware culture or after it, both showing much "the same distribution today that was ascribed to the Celts when names were finally applied to the Bronze Age peoples". Still in his words, "the Celtic distribution and the Corded Ware people have heavy geographical overlaps", and L497 "did arrive on w. Mediterranean islands and western Scandinavia, but it is not clear if this was from the initial spread or secondary".
Click to expand...

There is a chance that G L497 came with the Corded Ware culture, as it was found in Poland at Wroclaw-Jagodno in a CW site.
 
Standard and very popular British and West theory about Celts is very nacionalistic. Popular theory about Celt is myth. Up to now archeologist do not found any some evidence of presence Celts in Hallstat culture.

And exist a lot of types of Hallstatt culture. They are different
Hallstatt culture in wikipedia

British Celts and "Hallstatt Celts" it is very different ethnic and genetic groups. Ethnicity of Hallstatt cultur is more nations, Slavic people too.
 
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Sloven-Vened, have you red the diverse precedent posts of this thread?
 
Sloven-Vened said:
Standard and very popular British and West theory about Celts is very nacionalistic. Popular theory about Celt is myth. Up to now archeologist do not found any some evidence of presence Celts in Hallstat culture.

And exist a lot of types of Hallstatt culture. They are different
Hallstatt culture in wikipedia

British Celts and "Hallstatt Celts" it is very different ethnic and genetic groups. Ethnicity of Hallstatt cultur is more nations, Slavic people too.
Click to expand...

there are 2 groups of Celts : Halstatt and Atlantic Celts
IMO both descend from Csepl Bell Beaker
 
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