New big paper on Catalan Y-DNA

Alan said:
Carthagians are Celts? Did just someone went so far and tried to celtify the Carthagians lol?
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They didn't say that Carthaginians were Celts. They said that Carthaginians used a lot of non-Carthaginians in the armies they used against Rome, which is correct. Some historians seem to be of the opinion that many Celts were motivated less by money than by fear that the Romans were a threat to their freedom (which proved to be true) so the part about mercenaries fighting less well than patriots may be at least partly wrong. Rome was defeated by the Carthaginians and their allies numerous times and the eventual Roman victory is down to Roman determination and their ability to change their military tactics.
 
Melancon said:
LOL ^^


I had to put this guy on ignore. He just doesn't get it. Even though I explained several times that it was possible I was wrong. He continues arguments on things that cannot be answered and explains them with logical foxholes; and makes up his own reality.


I personally think he has insecurity issues or something. He self-projects his traits and pretends he knows more about the subject than everyone else; as if he is a seer of truth. But really doesn't have any concrete evidence to back that up, as anyone else here. He is basically claiming he knows more than the genealogists do.




Drac II there is no anti-iberianism; I just don't agree with you.

He will probably be back. ^^ "Melancon you are an anti-iberian" yadda yadda...
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Once again, you are childishly projecting your own issues and insecurities on others. Unlike you, I actually back up all my statements straight from legitimate historical, anthropological and genetic sources. And of course you have some sort of complex or resentment regarding at least some Iberians (apparently those from the south being your primary target), that is very evident from your posts.
 
Melancon said:
LOL ^^


I had to put this guy on ignore. He just doesn't get it. Even though I explained several times that it was possible I was wrong. He continues arguments on things that cannot be answered and explains them with logical foxholes; and makes up his own reality.


I personally think he has insecurity issues or something. He self-projects his traits and pretends he knows more about the subject than everyone else; as if he is a seer of truth. But really doesn't have any concrete evidence to back that up, as anyone else here. He is basically claiming he knows more than the genealogists do.




Drac II there is no anti-iberianism; I just don't agree with you.

He will probably be back. ^^ "Melancon you are an anti-iberian" yadda yadda...
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Was I not sufficiently clear? Stop with the personal attacks and the provocative comments. If you have points to make, make them. It would be even nicer if you had some evidence to back them up. Regardless, keep it civil. My patience for this kind of thing has its limits.
 
Sile said:
i don't know what your talking about, you have the wrong time period..........you might as well talk about yesterday............also carthagians where not celts
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The quotes come straight from books about the Carthaginians written by experts on the subject. Not my problem if you don't want to accept facts. And pay attention to what they actually say, no one said Carthaginians were "Celts".
 
Aberdeen said:
They didn't say that Carthaginians were Celts. They said that Carthaginians used a lot of non-Carthaginians in the armies they used against Rome, which is correct. Some historians seem to be of the opinion that many Celts were motivated less by money than by fear that the Romans were a threat to their freedom (which proved to be true) so the part about mercenaries fighting less well than patriots may be at least partly wrong. Rome was defeated by the Carthaginians and their allies numerous times and the eventual Roman victory is down to Roman determination and their ability to change their military tactics.
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Indeed. This is well known stuff, can be found in a whole bunch of books on the subject.
 
Angela said:
Was I not sufficiently clear? Stop with the personal attacks and the provocative comments. If you have points to make, make them. It would be even nicer if you had some evidence to back them up. Regardless, keep it civil. My patience for this kind of thing has its limits.
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There was no provocative comment. Re-read it again. This guy has always accused me of doing things that aren't even true. You're taking his stance in this? Don't drag me into this again Angela; I didn't want anything to do with him...
 
Aberdeen said:
and the eventual Roman victory is down to Roman determination and their ability to change their military tactics.
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Hannibal stood with his elephants and army infront of Rome and it is said as he saw the desperation among the Romans he felt some kind of compassion and let them be. Later the Roman reorganized, changed tactics and managed to defeat the carthagians. Afterwards the Romans put their attention towards the East and the Roman-Parthian wars started.
 
Melancon said:
There was no provocative comment. Re-read it again. This guy has always accused me of doing things that aren't even true. You're taking his stance in this? Don't drag me into this again Angela; I didn't want anything to do with him...
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Melancon, you must have given your teachers fits. Calling someone out by saying they're insecure is provocative. I don't care who started what at this point...Do you know how many times in my life I've heard...she started it...no, he did it? At that point I usually turned the car around, brought them both back home and put them to bed without dinner. Just STOP already, and get back to the topic...and with civility.
 
Alan said:
Hannibal stood with his elephants and army infront of Rome and it is said as he saw the desperation among the Romans he felt some kind of compassion and let them be. Later the Roman reorganized, changed tactics and managed to defeat the carthagians. Afterwards the Romans put their attention towards the East and the Roman-Parthian wars started.
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Obviously a base slander! Just remember, "Carthage Must Be Destroyed!":grin:

I always thought old Scipio probably had a bit of OCD, popping up after every bill about repairing the sewer mains or whatever to spout it! :LOL: My husband, who used to be a bit of a classicist, used to mumble it every time someone would drone on and on about some pet peeve. Nerdish humor, I know.
 
Alan said:
Hannibal stood with his elephants and army infront of Rome and it is said as he saw the desperation among the Romans he felt some kind of compassion and let them be. Later the Roman reorganized, changed tactics and managed to defeat the carthagians. Afterwards the Romans put their attention towards the East and the Roman-Parthian wars started.
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A Carthaginian showing compassion? Do you have a source for that? There was a lot about the Carthaginians that I admire, but most of their contemporaries seem to have considered them to be quite ruthless.
 
Expredel said:
Is the C* ancient to Europe, or does it have a recent origin?
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One particular subclade of Y DNA C is ancient in Europe. Do a search on this forum for information about La Brana Man and you'll find the subject being discussed.
 
Angela said:
Melancon, you must have given your teachers fits. Calling someone out by saying they're insecure is provocative. I don't care who started what at this point...Do you know how many times in my life I've heard...she started it...no, he did it? At that point I usually turned the car around, brought them both back home and put them to bed without dinner. Just STOP already, and get back to the topic...and with civility.
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How can I be anti-Iberian when I am 7th generation Galician.

Aguiar turned into French Aguillard. They lived in Pontevedra.

http://www.geni.com/people/Zenon-Aguillard/6000000012458963468
 
Sile said:
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/extref/ejhg201514x6.pdf


on another in reagrds surnames....the T1a surnames where only
Santacana
Melis
Vives

melis...."is" endings are usually greek , vives I have seen as southern french and santacana either iberian or italian


-IS: it cannot serve us too much but I precise here some catalan surnames exist with ending in -IS with seemingly latine (romance) or iberic origin: GOMIS (GOMEZ) SANCHIS (SANCHEZ) by istance so...
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Aberdeen said:
A Carthaginian showing compassion? Do you have a source for that? There was a lot about the Carthaginians that I admire, but most of their contemporaries seem to have considered them to be quite ruthless.
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Thats what my teacher told us back in the school. I didn't said the Carthagians were known for compassion lol. I said that, "it is said, after Hannibal saw the desperation among the Romans when he reached Rome crossing the Alps, he felt compassion and simply turned away without destroying Rome completely. He simply thought it was over with the Romans and they could never again come to their feets. How wrong he was.
 
Sile said:
Ask him, In relations with carthagians, I am talking about Phoenicians and he brings up celts ..............clear it with him

http://phoenicia.org/colonies.html



http://www.acampitelli.com/historia.htm
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No, clear it with you, as you are the only one making such claims. All I pointed out is that the Carthaginian armies, specially in Europe, were barely "Carthaginian" and actually made up predominantly of local Iberian and Celtic conscripts and mercenaries. Again, not my problem if you have trouble understanding very clear quotes taken from books on the subject. Others certainly did not have any problem understanding them.
 
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