Politics EU Frontex and Illegal immigration,

Oh, but that is so insane. (according the Hungarian prime minister) why should Hungary host 850 when a rock in the middle of the med with 400,000 can host 20,000? So insane.
 
Island of Lesvos

early at the morning

lesvos3.jpg



late by night outside portpolice station were EUROduck station is


levsos1.jpg


1 EUROduck station needs 15-25 men and can serve max 200-220 identification of illegal immigrants,
the last days the rythm of entrance is 500-700 per day in the island
meaning that 2 more station needed and extra 40 men, and more than 1 ship to carry them to temporary devastation camps,
that cost a lot of money which not even Frontex can afford

is that the result of Arab Spring?
 
Maleth said:
Renzi has plan B if EU does not come to an agreement on Burden sharing in relation to Refugees and Illegal migrants.

http://www.corriere.it/english/15_g...5c-11e5-8f7b-8677cfd62f52.shtml?refresh_ce-cp
Click to expand...

There is nothing left. His plan B was to let all negroes cross the border with Austria/France, but it didn't work. Notice that there has been no landings of immigrants, since 11 June, when Hollande closed the border. It's obvious that these immigrants want to reach North Europe, and Italy/Greece are just a crossing station.
 
Angela said:
Thanks, Maleth. Excellent...enough with being passive...that's an example of how to move the ball forward.
Click to expand...

Indeed.........lip service is not enough, had it for many years now...so I guess enough is enough
 
Maleth said:
Renzi has plan B if EU does not come to an agreement on Burden sharing in relation to Refugees and Illegal migrants.

http://www.corriere.it/english/15_g...5c-11e5-8f7b-8677cfd62f52.shtml?refresh_ce-cp
Click to expand...

there is now a rescue and surveilance operation in place in the Mediterranean
that was one part of the deal made in the EU
the second part of the deal is that all people picked up at sea and delivered in refugee camp should be registered and questioned
most of the refugees questioned are clearly economical refugees and can't apply for refugee status, they have to be sent back to their country of origin
the others can apply for refugee status and permit to stay in Europe ; they should be divided over the EU member states according to quotas agreed
but Italy does not fulfill the second part of the deal ; they know most refugees don't want to stay in Italy but go to countries like Germany or Sweden
Italy does not screen the refugees that arrive in boats, instead they release them and send them in illegality, so they'll leave Italy and go north
that is what is now happening at the French/Italian border and that is why the French are stopping these people
what a mess..
is Italy going to play the victim again now?
 
bicicleur said:
there is now a rescue and surveilance operation in place in the Mediterranean
that was one part of the deal made in the EU
the second part of the deal is that all people picked up at sea and delivered in refugee camp should be registered and questioned
most of the refugees questioned are clearly economical refugees and can't apply for refugee status, they have to be sent back to their country of origin
the others can apply for refugee status and permit to stay in Europe ; they should be divided over the EU member states according to quotas agreed
but Italy does not fulfill the second part of the deal ; they know most refugees don't want to stay in Italy but go to countries like Germany or Sweden
Italy does not screen the refugees that arrive in boats, instead they release them and send them in illegality, so they'll leave Italy and go north
that is what is now happening at the French/Italian border and that is why the French are stopping these people
what a mess..
is Italy going to play the victim again now?
Click to expand...

Keep to the facts and leave the subjective and disparaging comments out of it, if you please.
 
ok, how did these illegals get to Ventemiglia and why do they all want to cross the boarder?
do you think it will bring a solution any closer?
 
bicicleur said:
ok, how did these illegals get to Ventemiglia and why do they all want to cross the boarder?
do you think it will bring a solution any closer?
Click to expand...

My dear Bicicleur, I'm virtually next door to Ventimiglia a couple of months a year. I'm quite familiar with Moroccans, in particular, and their motivations are no mystery. They will, and have, happily expressed them. Many of them have relatives in France. They want to join them, as is understandable. Those that don't are still aware that the economic situation is better in northern Europe than in Italy. They're not stupid. Why wouldn't they want to cross the border?

The fact that the Italian government would prefer for them to go is beside the point.

This is called "hard ball" negotiation tactics. Enough with the endless jabbering of bureaucrats. The EU is going to dither around on this as on a whole plethora of issues, drowning Europe in an endless sea of virtual paper, and solve nothing. He is saying either come up with a unified policy fair to everybody expeditiously, and put in the mechanisms for enforcement so that everybody follows the rules, or we'll enforce our own solutions and protect our own borders. The end.

No country has an obligation to open its borders to anyone.

It's what I would have done, only I would have done it a while ago; I just didn't think that Renzi had the, well, gumption to do it.
 
Angela said:
My dear Bicicleur, I'm virtually next door to Ventimiglia a couple of months a year. I'm quite familiar with Moroccans, in particular, and their motivations are no mystery. They will, and have, happily expressed them. Many of them have relatives in France. They want to join them, as is understandable. Those that don't are still aware that the economic situation is better in northern Europe than in Italy. They're not stupid. Why wouldn't they want to cross the border?

The fact that the Italian government would prefer for them to go is beside the point.

This is called "hard ball" negotiation tactics. Enough with the endless jabbering of bureaucrats. The EU is going to dither around on this as on a whole plethora of issues, drowning Europe in an endless sea of virtual paper, and solve nothing. He is saying either come up with a unified policy fair to everybody expeditiously, and put in the mechanisms for enforcement so that everybody follows the rules, or we'll enforce our own solutions and protect our own borders. The end.

No country has an obligation to open its borders to anyone.

It's what I would have done, only I would have done it a while ago; I just didn't think that Renzi had the, well, gumption to do it.
Click to expand...

Most of the Africans at Ventimiglia are Horners, not Moroccans.
 
bicicleur said:
there is now a rescue and surveilance operation in place in the Mediterranean
that was one part of the deal made in the EU
the second part of the deal is that all people picked up at sea and delivered in refugee camp should be registered and questioned
most of the refugees questioned are clearly economical refugees and can't apply for refugee status, they have to be sent back to their country of origin
the others can apply for refugee status and permit to stay in Europe ; they should be divided over the EU member states according to quotas agreed
but Italy does not fulfill the second part of the deal ; they know most refugees don't want to stay in Italy but go to countries like Germany or Sweden
Italy does not screen the refugees that arrive in boats, instead they release them and send them in illegality, so they'll leave Italy and go north
that is what is now happening at the French/Italian border and that is why the French are stopping these people
what a mess..
is Italy going to play the victim again now?
Click to expand...

that was main plan by commisioner Abramopoulos,
all had negative stance,
then the next proposal was to share the weight of after 1 jan 2015 in all Europe,
but Hungary first and then others dennied even that,

the plan open the borders was also expressed by Independent Greeks party,
and seems work,
since the annual risk analysis of frontex is giving red alert in Austria Hungary Romania
 
Many of these Horners and Sudanese are heading for Britain via Calais.
 
Angela said:
My dear Bicicleur, I'm virtually next door to Ventimiglia a couple of months a year. Why wouldn't they want to cross the border?
Click to expand...

Ventimiglia is the nice little town where train borders were once among France and Italy?
I remember I had drunk a nice cafe au lait or di Latto there before 15 years
 
Renzi has done nothing to come to contact the de facto government in Tripoli, Libya. A joint Libyan-Italian agreement could stop the people smuggling through north west Libya.

It is mostly Eritreans, Somalis and Sudanese who are now entering Italy, not Moroccans or other Maghrebians.
 
Vallicanus said:
Most of the Africans at Ventimiglia are Horners, not Moroccans.
Click to expand...

Ah, I was waiting for you, Vallicanus. The fact that the current crop is from Eritrea and Somalia somehow invalidates the fact that many Moroccans tried to make the same trip at prior periods?

More importantly, it somehow invalidates the main point?

There are not enough jobs in Italy for our own young people; in fact, we still export people. We also don't provide the kind of benefits for them as do Britain and Germany and the Scandinavian countries. Like I said, they're not stupid. They even speak quite good English.

After all, we have been taken to task by the EU, Germany in particular, for being too much in deficit. We have, as a result,cut spending for social programs even if not enough for the EU, and as a result, we have put our pensioners in peril. Are we supposed to put them even more in peril in order to give northern European style welfare benefits to these poor people?
 
There is no Lybian government. Almost all negroes are coming from Benghazi and other zones controlled by ISIS or Ansar Al-Sharia.
 
Angela said:
My dear Bicicleur, I'm virtually next door to Ventimiglia a couple of months a year. I'm quite familiar with Moroccans, in particular, and their motivations are no mystery. They will, and have, happily expressed them. Many of them have relatives in France. They want to join them, as is understandable. Those that don't are still aware that the economic situation is better in northern Europe than in Italy. They're not stupid. Why wouldn't they want to cross the border?

The fact that the Italian government would prefer for them to go is beside the point.

This is called "hard ball" negotiation tactics. Enough with the endless jabbering of bureaucrats. The EU is going to dither around on this as on a whole plethora of issues, drowning Europe in an endless sea of virtual paper, and solve nothing. He is saying either come up with a unified policy fair to everybody expeditiously, and put in the mechanisms for enforcement so that everybody follows the rules, or we'll enforce our own solutions and protect our own borders. The end.

No country has an obligation to open its borders to anyone.

It's what I would have done, only I would have done it a while ago; I just didn't think that Renzi had the, well, gumption to do it.
Click to expand...

Now we start talking. But you, the corriere della sera and Mr Renzi should tell the whole truth - though I don't expect this from journalists neither politicians
Do you realy believe that these people have relatives in France (and therefore take the boat to Italy) or that they have genuine right to stay in any European country?
They are economical immigrants attracted by European social system and they are no asset to any economy - be it the Italian or German economy.
They should be shipped back to their country of origin. And extensive search projects in the Mediterranean only stimulates more to come and makes bigger profits for criminal 'travel organisations' where thes immigrants pay their one-way ticket.
It's a hypocrit game and Mr Renzi should at least have the courage to tell the trueth. But what can you expect? He's a politician.
With an attitude like that things will have to get a lot worse before anything will be done to the problem.
Sorry, I get sick when I think of these people playing games and it's hard to stay objective.
 
Vukodav said:
There is no Lybian government. Almost all negroes are coming from Benghazi and other zones controlled by ISIS or Ansar Al-Sharia.
Click to expand...

The crossing points to Sicily are under the Tripoli de facto government.
Renzi needs to do a deal like Berlusconi did with Ghadaffi.
 
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