Very advanced Indoeuropeans - cows reveal their history! :-)

[LeBrok]

You might want to take a course in the history of science and one on the scientific method, as well. It is based on data. As the data improves the conclusions change. Is this really news to you?

Since you purport not to believe in it stop quoting results from scientific papers when it suits your agenda. That is completely inconsistent and illogical.

If posters continue to post off topic comments I will close the thread, or I'll just remove the posts.

If you wish to discuss the pigmentation of the Indo-Europeans go to the appropriate threads.

Exactly Angela. They claim that science is wrong, that they don't believe in science, and yet they come up with arguments based in scientific research in archaeology and population genetics. The worse is that they don't see any contradiction in it. Their "brilliant" method to cut and past snippets of science, myths and their imagination to fit their need to feel superior to others, to feel special.

 

[LeBrok]

No, sadly I have just this link; which curiously nobody seem take in count (I guess that don't fit well with their agenda).

For true scientific mind the only agenda is to go were science leads. Unthinkable for 3 of you.

 

[Rethel]

They claim that science is wrong, that they don't believe in science,

Really did you understand only this? etrified:
Or you are doing this on purpose?

 

[Johannes]

Exactly Angela. They claim that science is wrong, that they don't believe in science, and yet they come up with arguments based in scientific research in archaeology and population genetics. The worse is that they don't see any contradiction in it. Their "brilliant" method to cut and past snippets of science, myths and their imagination to fit their need to feel superior to others, to feel special.

Wrong: I never said science is "wrong" you seem to put labels on people who never make them and try to discredit them. I respect science. But science is only a tool to interpret reality. Nothing more nothing less. With respect to Voltaire I have learned to set limits to what science can do. You and Angela use it like its religion -- like its the panacea of everything.

 

[Johannes]

For true scientific mind the only agenda is to go were science leads. Unthinkable for 3 of you.

What is unthinkable for you is that science has its limitations. It seems to have escaped you.

 

[Rethel]

Wrong: I never said science is "wrong" you seem to put labels on people who never make them and try to discredit them. I respect science. But science is only a tool to interpret reality. Nothing more nothing less. With respect to Voltaire I have learned to set limits to what science can do. You and Angela use it like its religion -- like its the panacea of everything.

 

[Johannes]

Last time I checked archaeology was a science. I thought you had no faith in science? You'd better stick with " ARYANS dropped out of an alien spaceship" so that you're consistent.

Or do you believe in science only when it supports your pre-conceived notions?

Angela please: I do respect science (and I respect you too!): I am an atheist. But don't you think there are limitations to everything?

 

[LeBrok]

What is unthinkable for you is that science has its limitations. It seems to have escaped you.

Quote me not agreeing with this, or apologize for lying.

 

[LeBrok]

Angela please: I do respect science: I am an atheist. But don't you think there are limitations to everything?

Wow, you just lost your best friend, the devoted religious Rethel. Watch his axe now, lol.

 

[Johannes]

Even worse

For exaple, some yerars ago, they belived as a fact, that blond colour
existed from 100.000 years... if you would not share there view, you
would be calld stupid and ignorant.

10-20 years ago they belived, that this happened 10.000 years ago.
If you would disagree - you would be called syupid and ignorant.

Now they are claiming that it happend spotaniously in many small places in
Scandinavia and West Europe 4000 or less years ago among very dark people.
If you disagee - the same as above.

They always have absolute truth, even if it is constantly changing.

They don't even bother, that many things from historical records dont fit.
They try to ignore this, because they have some theory which must be truth,
because they read so many papers... so they must always repeat after
some one else - and always they are having two main points: evolution
is true and is making miracles, and everything comes from nothing.

Faster you can came to conclusion with some radical muslim than with them.
They don't even listen - mostly they are talking with themselves creating in
their minds wishfull picture about what you are actually talking and thinking.

As we have two examples in this thread.

Well its not "wishful thinking" its just that they want to use logic and reason as their guide to interpret reality and for them it seems like a perfect tool. But then they forget that there is a lot of reality that is unknowable with science. For example: how does electric current exists or how we send signals using electric current -- for example how I am sending you these signals!

 

[Johannes]

There's a marker in DNA that can determine whether someone has light or dark eye color with something like 99% accuracy. Blue eyed people from the Middle East have the same marker as blue eyed people in Europe. We have these ancient people's DNA, so we have a good idea what eye color they had.

Please explain how you got this incredible amount of information???

 

[Rethel]

Wow, you just lost your best friend, the devoted religious Rethel. Watch his axe now, lol.

No, he didn't.

Are you jealous?

As you see, someone can be an athiest and be not a dawkings-like-biggot
who is hating everything but himself and his view. And can think logicly, not
only repeating tons of paper after some guru's even if this is no coherent
with other things.

Johannes, keep that!

In the world exist even atheists-scientists who do not belive that world have bilions
of years, even they don't belive in tens of thousands of years so called human history,
because in the reality are existing things, which show, that evolution etc is impossible.
Of course you can belive in what you wish, but is does not make fairy-tail a real story,
and impossible does not became possible. So you must have a very BIG faith, bigger,
that christians and muslims together. If something is impossible, and cannot happend
then it doesn't matter who you are - atheist or not.

 

[holderlin]

@angela

The Alien-Aryan connection is highly speculative, but I think it's possible because of 18th dynasty Y hgs and pyramids. How else can you explain that?

@everyone

I'm rather inclined to predict that Yamnaya will reveal alot of light eyes/hair and skin based on Karelia and Samara, which show mesolithic R1a and R1b on the steppe and in NE europe which are nearly identical autosomally (EHG + ANE), and lighter than WHGs found so far. R1b Samara looks to be very light in all facets, possibly with freckles. I dunno. More DNA obviously.

 

[Rethel]

I'm rather inclined to predict that Yamnaya will reveal alot of light eyes/hair and skin based on Karelia and Samara, which show mesolithic R1a and R1b on the steppe and in NE europe which are nearly identical autosomally (EHG + ANE), and lighter than WHGs found so far. R1b Samara looks to be very light in all facets, possibly with freckles. I dunno. More DNA obviously.

 

[Fire Haired14]

Please explain how you got this incredible amount of information???

For most posters this is common sense. Just Google the SNPs I listed. There should be plenty of info. It was discovered like over 5 years ago.

 

[Fire Haired14]

Wow, you just lost your best friend, the devoted religious Rethel. Watch his axe now, lol.

No one will listen to you if you make fun of. All you'll do is gain enemies. It is as if debating is a war to you, where you do your best to mock your enemy, than discussing ideas.

 

[Sile]

No one will listen to you if you make fun of. All you'll do is gain enemies. It is as if debating is a war to you, where you do your best to mock your enemy, than discussing ideas.

well said, I stop listening to him long ago.

 

[Angela]

well said, I stop listening to him long ago.

You'd better re-read the rules pronto, especially the one about insulting team members.

 

[Angela]

@angela

The Alien-Aryan connection is highly speculative, but I think it's possible because of 18th dynasty Y hgs and pyramids. How else can you explain that?

@everyone

I'm rather inclined to predict that Yamnaya will reveal alot of light eyes/hair and skin based on Karelia and Samara, which show mesolithic R1a and R1b on the steppe and in NE europe which are nearly identical autosomally (EHG + ANE), and lighter than WHGs found so far. R1b Samara looks to be very light in all facets, possibly with freckles. I dunno. More DNA obviously.

The Yamnaya we have so far are pretty uniformly dark. It might be that they were lighter before their EHG was "diluted". Or, we may indeed have a case where this particular group came from the east already. We don't know about the ones to the west on the southern steppe. Time will tell. I also think the people to the north of Yamnaya were probably fairer.

As to your first comment, I assume you're kidding. If I had thought you were serious, I might have been moved to send you a private e-mail gently suggesting that you go back on your meds.

 

[holderlin]

The Yamnaya we have so far are pretty uniformly dark. It might be that they were lighter before their EHG was "diluted". Or, we may indeed have a case where this particular group came from the east already. We don't know about the ones to the west on the southern steppe. Time will tell. I also think the people to the north of Yamnaya were probably fairer.

As to your first comment, I assume you're kidding. If I had thought you were serious, I might have been moved to send you a private e-mail gently suggesting that you go back on your meds.

I guess my allusions are to the notion of the male Yamnaya line originating on the steppe as opposed to the Caucasus or South. So far that's what it looks like to me, and so "dilution" would have been mostly female. I know this suggestion pisses people off, and it's a bit of an extreme model, but Samara/Karelia are pretty convincing to me in spite of the small sample size. I'll say again, AUTOSOMALLY IDENTICAL. Not to mention the archaeological continuity, which I've already beat to death on dead genocentric ears. If we find R1b in Maykop with all or much more caucasus_Gedrosian/ENF("Armenian") or whatever then I'll eat crow, but until then I have to go with Steppe origin receptive to technological streams via Balkans/CT and the Caucasus. That being said, R1, especially R1b is a hair ball, and the 50-50 Armenian-Karelia/Samara model along with the unlikelihood of a purely female source of this "Armenian" weighs on my mind.

I'll be taking lots of med tonight, don't worry.