Who are the RISE baSin people?

[Inal]

Hello,

According to the Eurasia K10 CHG, I am relatively close to an individual of English, Icelandic, RISE baSin (?), and Sardinian origin. I have never heard about the RISE baSin people before. The name obviously suggests that they are an ancient people, but I could not find relevant information anywhere.

 

[Tomenable]

I'm not 100% sure but probably "baSin" stands for "bronze age Sintashta":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintashta_culture

And RISE is how various ancient DNA samples in Allentoft 2015 were called:

Allentoft, M. et al. (2015), "Population genomics of Bronze Age Eurasia"

 

[Fire Haired14]

Can you post your results? The Eurasia K10 CHG results, are saying you fit as a mixture of modern(English, Icelandic, Sardinian) and ancient(Sintashta culture). Are you Circassian?

 

[Inal]

I'm not 100% sure but probably "baSin" stands for "bronze age Sintashta":


And RISE is how various ancient DNA samples in Allentoft 2015 were called:

Allentoft, M. et al. (2015), "Population genomics of Bronze Age Eurasia"

Thank you so much! It means a lot to me.

 

[Inal]

Can you post your results? The Eurasia K10 CHG results, are saying you fit as a mixture of modern(English, Icelandic, Sardinian) and ancient(Sintashta culture). Are you Circassian?

If I understood correctly, I am relatively close to a mixture of English, Icelandic, Sardinian, and RISE BaSin based on 4 populations approximation results. Yes, my parents are from the Kebertei (Cabardians) people, a sub-branch of Circassians. I am posting my results now.

 

[Inal]

Can you post your results? The Eurasia K10 CHG results, are saying you fit as a mixture of modern(English, Icelandic, Sardinian) and ancient(Sintashta culture). Are you Circassian?

Elapsed Time: 2.47 seconds

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Population

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"] [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]CHG[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]17.98[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Amerindian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.10[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]W_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]SW_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]3.02[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]S_Indian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]E_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]WHG[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]41.45[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Anatolian_Farmers[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]21.85[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]EHG[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]15.60[/TD]

[/TD]

Threshold of components set to 1.000
Threshold of method set to 0.25%
Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
[h=2]Gedmatch.Com[/h][h=2]Eurasia K10 CHG 4-Ancestors Oracle[/h]This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

Eurasia K10 CHG-NAF Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population

[TD="align: right"] Percent [/TD]

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]WHG[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]41.45[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Anatolian_Farmers[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]21.85[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]CHG[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]17.98[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]EHG[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]15.60[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]SW_Asian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.02[/TD]

Finished reading population data. 134 populations found.
10 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 English @ 4.394794
2 Hungarian @ 4.824864
3 French @ 5.277271
4 Czech @ 5.758362
5 Scottish @ 5.896596
6 Croatian @ 6.215229
7 Norwegian @ 7.762318
8 Icelandic @ 8.155230
9 Ukrainian @ 9.077084
10 Belarusian @ 12.386986
11 French_South @ 12.404883
12 Spanish @ 13.486613
13 Bulgarian @ 14.820071
14 Russian @ 15.324914
15 Lithuanian @ 16.616421
16 Estonian @ 17.449373
17 Finnish @ 18.377743
18 Karelia @ 20.172329
19 Albanian @ 20.470625
20 Tuscan @ 21.637604

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% English +50% French @ 3.498639


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Icelandic +25% RISE_baSin +25% Sardinian @ 2.472422


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 English + Icelandic + RISE_baSin + Sardinian @ 2.144366
2 English + Norwegian + RISE_baSin + Sardinian @ 2.290527
3 English + French_South + French_South + RISE_baSin @ 2.442289
4 Icelandic + RISE_baSin + Sardinian + Scottish @ 2.463006
5 Icelandic + Icelandic + RISE_baSin + Sardinian @ 2.472422
6 Icelandic + Norwegian + RISE_baSin + Sardinian @ 2.474394
7 Czech + Icelandic + RISE_baSin + Sardinian @ 2.501649
8 Norwegian + Norwegian + RISE_baSin + Sardinian @ 2.536146
9 English + English + RISE_baSin + Sardinian @ 2.538188
10 Norwegian + RISE_baSin + Sardinian + Scottish @ 2.578147
11 English + RISE_baSin + Sardinian + Scottish @ 2.587878
12 Czech + Norwegian + RISE_baSin + Sardinian @ 2.618320
13 Czech + English + RISE_baSin + Sardinian @ 2.674050
14 Belarusian + English + RISE_baSin + Sardinian @ 2.689281
15 English + RISE_baSin + Sardinian + Ukrainian @ 2.744585
16 RISE_baSin + Sardinian + Scottish + Scottish @ 2.768608
17 French + Lithuanian + RISE_baSin + Sardinian @ 2.769079
18 French + French_South + French_South + RISE_baSin @ 2.775010
19 Czech + RISE_baSin + Sardinian + Scottish @ 2.839127
20 French_South + French_South + RISE_baSin + Scottish @ 2.861318

Done.

Elapsed time 0.2424 seconds.

 

[Goga]

If I understood correctly, I am relatively close to a mixture of English, Icelandic, Sardinian, and RISE BaSin based on 4 populations approximation results. Yes, my parents are from the Kebertei (Cabardians) people, a sub-branch of Circassians. I am posting my results now.

Is this a joke?

Maybe you're not a child of your parents? Because you're not Circassian! Circassians are Adyghe, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adyghe_people. Adyghe (Circassians) in Northern Caucasus have these results:

[TABLE="class: cms_table"]
[TR]
[TD]#[/TD]
[TD]Population[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]Percent[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD]CHG[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]49.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD]Anatolian_Farmers[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]15.61[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 30, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]WHG[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]12.06[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 30, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]EHG[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]9.25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 30, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]SW_Asian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]7.57[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Population

Abkhasian

Adygei

[TD="align: center"]CHG[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Amerindian[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]W_African[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]SW_Asian[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]S_Indian[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]E_Asian[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]WHG[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Anatolian_Farmers[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]EHG[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]56.62[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.71[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.27[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.50[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.94[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.83[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.83[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.14[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19.01[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.15[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]49.00[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.59[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.44[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.57[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.20[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.29[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.06[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.61[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.25[/TD]

 

[Goga]

Yes, my parents are from the Kebertei (Cabardians) people, a sub-branch of Circassians. I am posting my results now.

Your DNA is for the biggest part Germanic/NorthWest European

I don't know who you really are, but maybe this is true?

'the Cabardians were originally a colony of Teutonic Knights' ( 'A Year among the Circassians' by John Longworth).

https://cirkassiska.wordpress.com/tag/cabardians/



Teutonic Knights were Germanic...

 

[Inal]

Your DNA is for the biggest part Germanic/NorthWest European

I don't know who you really are, but maybe this is true?

'the Cabardians were originally a colony of Teutonic Knights' ( 'A Year among the Circassians' by John Longworth).

https://cirkassiska.wordpress.com/tag/cabardians/



Teutonic Knights were Germanic...

I answered to your reply in another thread. Should I post it in this one too?

I am from the Kebertei (Cabardians) people, a sub-branch of Circassians (aka Adyghe). I see that your population approximation results well-matched with your own ethnicity. This is very good.

Yes, my CHG score is 18%. A few days ago, I saw Adyghe scoring CHG around 25% in a spreadsheet, and now you are saying that they can have up to 49%. Very interesting, indeed. Do you know by any chance which sub-branch (or tribe) of Adyghe was included in this particular study? I also wonder where they live. It is even surprising to see that Circassians have found entry in these studies because we are a small community and live in different countries. It is not easy for a researcher to contact a pure (colloquially) Circassian and to convince him to volunteer.

The fact that all my grandparents are known to be Circassian only (and from the same sub-branch) was one of the reasons why I took a genetic test, but I don't think many of us did so. So far on Eurasia K10 CHG, I am treated as being close to a mixture of English, Icelandic, Sardinian, and RISE BaSin, which is a little disappointing. I wish there was a separate study focussing on Circassians. That way I would be able to get more proper matches. Seeing these comparison results available, I started to think that the Circassian sample of this calculator might have included. This is possible, isn't it?

Why would the Cabardians be a colony of Teutonic Knights? This is not something I have heard before. Is this from a book?

Well, it's true that the features of isolated Circassians share overlap with those of North Europeans, but I don't think this is because we are descended from Germanic people. It has to do with the fact that the ancestors of Germanic people or Y-DNA G, I, J haplogroups in general originated from the Caucasus. I would really like to find out more about the origin of my Y-DNA and mtDNA haplogroups.

 

[Goga]

You are not Circassian. I've seen average Circassian auDNA on MDLP k13 spreadsheet. Those Circassians are similar to Circassians in the Caucasus, the Adyghe.

 

[Inal]

Goga,

I appreciate your answers, but please acknowledge that you are in no position to question my Circassian heritage. The same way I cannot say anything about how Iranian you are based on your genetic results. It would be ridiculous.

I assure you that I am Circassian. I live in Turkey, but all my ancestors are known to be Circassian. Turkey is the country where the majority of my people live due to the massive displacement of Circassians from historical Circassia in Russia today. You are asking me why I score different than those in Russia. I have answered to this question somewhere else. I'm reposting it.


I think this is because the only Circassian data used in such studies stem from people who still live in Russia where not all Circassian sub-branches or tribes exist today.
However, the majority of Circassians live in diaspora. Most of the extended families live in Turkey, Israel, and Jordan, amongst others. I am from one of them, my family lives in Turkey since the second half of the 19th century. I belong to the sub-branch of Kebertei, but my paternal family is currently non-existant in Russia. All my ancestors are known to be Circassian (from Kebertei aka Cabardians). I still live in Turkey. It is true that my Caucasus HG score is lower, but I believe it is a main component for South Caucasians and some North Caucasians, rather than Northwest Caucasians like Circassians. Here's an analogy for you to better understand this. It's about the Abhaz people who are also a West Caucasian. Well, I have seen once a study which includes the Abhaz both from Abhazia and Turkey (the latter having the largest Abhaz population in the world, too). The thing is they scored much different than each other as Abhaz in Abhazia had lower North Euro admixture just like Georgians, whereas Abhaz in Turkey scored much higher North Euro, being closer to Circassians. Perhaps, those in Abhazia have recent ancestry from Georgians, just like Circassians in Russia can have recent ancestry from other North Caucasians who might have lowered the Circassian basal WHG. You cannot simply assume that Circassians in Russia are more representative. In Turkey, there are Circassians who have recent Turkish admixture, too. Yet in general, we are an isolated population in Turkey. That's why most of us have preserved our Circassian features which are fair, but you should already know this if you really know about my people.

Best

 

[Goga]

No, DNA samples of 'Turkified' Caucasians are something between Turks, Kurds and Caucasians. I've seen many samples of them, because I'm very much interested in this topic.

Second, even ancient samples of Yamnaya north of Northern Caucasus have much more CHG than you. So even thousands of years ancient samples around that area have more CHG.

Are you saying that you are, a so called 'Turkified' Circassian outside of your original homeland, more pure than the actual Circassians living on their ancestral homeland? You said that your ancestors came to Turkey 200 years ago. In those 200 years Circassians who speak Circassian as their native language, stayed on their ancestral homeland couldn't change that much. That's impossible!


Peace!