Surprising genetic similarity between Poles and Latvians

srdceleva said:
thank you for the welcome Lebrok. Very interesting there could possibly be a link between the two tribes, it would explain some things, though the term polan could just be a common name for a tribe that lives in fields.
Click to expand...
You are absolutely right, I was just entertaining a long shot idea.
 
Tomenable, could you also do a chart for slovaks compared to the other samples in the study? i can only see the map they created not the actual distances
 
LeBrok said:
Is this where a second tribe Polans (Polanie) by Kiev was? Welcome to Eupedia srdceleva.
East_Slavic_tribes_peoples_8th_9th_century.jpg
Click to expand...

Valachians in Transylvania around 700-800?

The first written sources of Romanian settlements date to the 13th century; the first cited Romanian township was Olahteluk (1283) in Bihar County.[32][33] The "land of Romanians" (Terram Blacorum)[34][35][36][33] appeared in Fogaras, and this area was mentioned under the name "Olachi" in 1285.[33] The first appearance of a Romanian name (Ola) in Hungary appears in a 1258 charter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Transylvania
 
I wrote out lists for all the other Slavic populations and wrote some interesting conclusions about the results from this study

Bulgaria
Macedonians-0,0000
Serbians - 0,0000
Bosnians/Croatians - 0,0007
Slovenians- 0,0012
Montenegrins - 0,0014
Slovaks - 0,0016
Macedonians
Bulgaria - 0,0000
Serbia - 0,0004
Bosnians/Croatians - 0,0007
Slovenia - 0,0013
Montenegrins/ Czechs - 0,0017
Slovaks - 0,0021
Montenegrins
Serbia - 0,0007
Bulgaria - 0,0014
Macedonians/Bosnians - 0,0017
Croatians - 0,0018
Slovenes - 0,0021
Slovaks - 0,0030
Serbia
Bulgaria - 0,0000
Croatians – 0,0002
Bosnians – 0,0003
Macedonians – 0,0004
Montenegrins – 0,0007
Czechs/Slovaks – 0,0012
Bosnia
Croatians – 0,0001
Serbia – 0,0003
Bulgarians/Macedonians – 0,0007
Slovenes/Czechs – 0,0008
Slovaks – 0,0010
Montenegrins – 0,0017
Croatians
Bosnians – 0,0001
Serbians – 0,0002
Slovenes/Czechs – 0,0004
Bulgarians/Macedonians – 0,0007
Slovaks – 0,0008
Montenegrins – 0,0018
Slovenians
Croatians – 0,0004
Slovaks/Bosnians – 0,0008
Ukrainians – 0,0009
Czechs – 0,0011
Bulgarians – 0,0012
Macedonians/Serbians – 0,0013
Czechs
Slovaks/Croatians – 0,0004
Poles – 0,0005
Ukrainians – 0,0007
Bosnians – 0,0008
South Russians – 0,0009
Slovenes/Belarusians – 0,0011
Slovaks
Czechs – 0,0004
Poles – 0,0006
Ukrainians – 0,0007
Croatians/Slovenians – 0,0008
Bosnians – 0,0010
Serbians/Belarusian/South Russians – 0,0012
Sorbs
Czechs/Ukrainians – 0,0021
Poles – 0,0022
Belarusian – 0,0023
Slovaks/South Russian – 0,0026
Croatians – 0,0028
Slovenians – 0,0029
Poles
Belarusians – 0,0000
Ukrainians – 0,0002
South Russians – 0,0004
Czechs – 0,0005
Slovaks – 0,0006
Russians Central – 0,0010
Ukrainians
Poles – 0,0002
Belarusians – 0,0003
South Russians – 0,0006
Slovaks/Czechs – 0,0007
Slovenians – 0,0009
Croatians – 0,0010
Belarusians
Poles – 0,0000
Ukrainians – 0,0003
South Russians – 0,0005
Lithuanians – 0,0008
Czechs – 0,0011
Slovaks/Central Russians – 0,0012
Russia South
Poles – 0,0004
Belarusians – 0,0005
Ukrainians – 0,0006
Central Russians – 0,0008
Czechs – 0,0009
Slovaks – 0,0012
Russia Central
South Russians – 0,0008
Poles – 0,0010
Belarusians/ Ukrainians – 0,0012
Latvians – 0,0014
Slovaks – 0,0018
Czechs/ Lithuanians – 0,0021
Russia North
Central Russians - 0,0059
South Russians – 0,0086
Poles – 0,0087
Belarusians/ Ukrainians – 0,0089
Latvians – 0,0096
Slovaks/Lithuanians – 0,0098
Interesting conclusions
Sorbs though largely from Slavic stock and distant to their Germanic neighbors are a genetic isolate and quite distant from all other Slavic populations. Their closest relatives being Czechs followed closely by poles

Montenegrins also seem to be a genetic isolate with their closest relatives being serbians (0,0007) followed by Bulgaria (0,0014). This could be due to the mountainous reigion they inhabit.


Poles( at least from North eastern Poland) and Belarusians are genetically indistinguishable. Ukraine/Poland/Belarus form a tight genetic group covering a very large geographic area. However the sampling in this study doesn’t account for regional differention such as western Ukraine and South Eastern Poland.

Czechs are genetically just as related to Slovaks as they are to Croatians. This could be due to the fact that R1a in both Croatia and the Czech republic are almost esclusively R1a-M458, while R1a in Slovakia is over 50% of East Slavic sub clads. An interesting note, is that this is the case for Slovenians as well, hence Slovaks are closer related to Slovenians than Czechs are.

Northern Russians are drastically different from other Slavic peoples genetically.
 
I think that Polish samples used in this study were all actually North-Eastern Poles.

Can someone check if this was the case? This could explain so high affinity to Balts.

I have several dozen Polish GEDmatch kits and ~20 Polish DNA.Land Ancestry Reports.

There are considerable regional differences visible both in GEDmatch and in DNA.Land.

But the problem is that today the majority of Poles have ancestry from several regions.
 
According to davidiski

Screenshot_2017-03-23-01-59-29.jpg
 
srdceleva said:
I wrote out lists for all the other Slavic populations and wrote some interesting conclusions about the results from this study

Bulgaria
Macedonians-0,0000
Serbians - 0,0000
Bosnians/Croatians - 0,0007
Slovenians- 0,0012
Montenegrins - 0,0014
Slovaks - 0,0016
Macedonians
Bulgaria - 0,0000
Serbia - 0,0004
Bosnians/Croatians - 0,0007
Slovenia - 0,0013
Montenegrins/ Czechs - 0,0017
Slovaks - 0,0021
Montenegrins
Serbia - 0,0007
Bulgaria - 0,0014
Macedonians/Bosnians - 0,0017
Croatians - 0,0018
Slovenes - 0,0021
Slovaks - 0,0030
Serbia
Bulgaria - 0,0000
Croatians – 0,0002
Bosnians – 0,0003
Macedonians – 0,0004
Montenegrins – 0,0007
Czechs/Slovaks – 0,0012
Bosnia
Croatians – 0,0001
Serbia – 0,0003
Bulgarians/Macedonians – 0,0007
Slovenes/Czechs – 0,0008
Slovaks – 0,0010
Montenegrins – 0,0017
Croatians
Bosnians – 0,0001
Serbians – 0,0002
Slovenes/Czechs – 0,0004
Bulgarians/Macedonians – 0,0007
Slovaks – 0,0008
Montenegrins – 0,0018
Slovenians
Croatians – 0,0004
Slovaks/Bosnians – 0,0008
Ukrainians – 0,0009
Czechs – 0,0011
Bulgarians – 0,0012
Macedonians/Serbians – 0,0013
Czechs
Slovaks/Croatians – 0,0004
Poles – 0,0005
Ukrainians – 0,0007
Bosnians – 0,0008
South Russians – 0,0009
Slovenes/Belarusians – 0,0011
Slovaks
Czechs – 0,0004
Poles – 0,0006
Ukrainians – 0,0007
Croatians/Slovenians – 0,0008
Bosnians – 0,0010
Serbians/Belarusian/South Russians – 0,0012
Sorbs
Czechs/Ukrainians – 0,0021
Poles – 0,0022
Belarusian – 0,0023
Slovaks/South Russian – 0,0026
Croatians – 0,0028
Slovenians – 0,0029
Poles
Belarusians – 0,0000
Ukrainians – 0,0002
South Russians – 0,0004
Czechs – 0,0005
Slovaks – 0,0006
Russians Central – 0,0010
Ukrainians
Poles – 0,0002
Belarusians – 0,0003
South Russians – 0,0006
Slovaks/Czechs – 0,0007
Slovenians – 0,0009
Croatians – 0,0010
Belarusians
Poles – 0,0000
Ukrainians – 0,0003
South Russians – 0,0005
Lithuanians – 0,0008
Czechs – 0,0011
Slovaks/Central Russians – 0,0012
Russia South
Poles – 0,0004
Belarusians – 0,0005
Ukrainians – 0,0006
Central Russians – 0,0008
Czechs – 0,0009
Slovaks – 0,0012
Russia Central
South Russians – 0,0008
Poles – 0,0010
Belarusians/ Ukrainians – 0,0012
Latvians – 0,0014
Slovaks – 0,0018
Czechs/ Lithuanians – 0,0021
Russia North
Central Russians - 0,0059
South Russians – 0,0086
Poles – 0,0087
Belarusians/ Ukrainians – 0,0089
Latvians – 0,0096
Slovaks/Lithuanians – 0,0098
Interesting conclusions
Sorbs though largely from Slavic stock and distant to their Germanic neighbors are a genetic isolate and quite distant from all other Slavic populations. Their closest relatives being Czechs followed closely by poles

Montenegrins also seem to be a genetic isolate with their closest relatives being serbians (0,0007) followed by Bulgaria (0,0014). This could be due to the mountainous reigion they inhabit.


Poles( at least from North eastern Poland) and Belarusians are genetically indistinguishable. Ukraine/Poland/Belarus form a tight genetic group covering a very large geographic area. However the sampling in this study doesn’t account for regional differention such as western Ukraine and South Eastern Poland.

Czechs are genetically just as related to Slovaks as they are to Croatians. This could be due to the fact that R1a in both Croatia and the Czech republic are almost esclusively R1a-M458, while R1a in Slovakia is over 50% of East Slavic sub clads. An interesting note, is that this is the case for Slovenians as well, hence Slovaks are closer related to Slovenians than Czechs are.

Northern Russians are drastically different from other Slavic peoples genetically.
Click to expand...
Thanks for putting so much work in it. As you said the results might be skewed a bit because of small sample group. But interesting nevertheless.

Another interesting Slavic center is Serbs, Bulgarians and Macedonians. I was expecting Serbs to be closest to Bosnians but Bosnians turned to be closer to Chroats.
 
LeBrok said:
Thanks for putting so much work in it. As you said the results might be skewed a bit because of small sample group. But interesting nevertheless.

Another interesting Slavic center is Serbs, Bulgarians and Macedonians. I was expecting Serbs to be closest to Bosnians but Bosnians turned to be closer to Chroats.
Click to expand...
Your welcome, it was a bit tedious :)

Yes I found that interesting as well, still Bosnians , Croatians, and Serbians seem to all be highly related to eachother . What is really surprising is how after Serbians , Montenegrins closest relatives are Bulgarians but with a distance of .0014. Croatians are more closely related to Ukrainians than they are to Montenegrins.

I'm also suprised that slovaks and their neighbors aren't closer. I expected slovaks and czechs to be even closer than they are same with poles and slovaks.
 
Sorbs though largely from Slavic stock and distant to their Germanic neighbors are a genetic isolate and quite distant from all other Slavic populations. Their closest relatives being Czechs followed closely by Poles
Click to expand...

Only because they did not use Wielkopolska region Poles in that study.

The closest relatives of Sorbs are Wielkopolska Poles (94% similarity):

YLRzalt.png
 
srdceleva said:
In the study that was sourced only samples from North east Poland were sampled for autosomal dna, would be a more informitive study if southern and wester poles had also been sampled autosomally
Click to expand...

I agree, many people in territories of former Jotvingiai spoke Lithuanian, not Polish. In 1501 King of Poland Alexander Jagiellon passes a decree that 28 churches in Polish territories like Goniądz must have Lithuanian speaking priests. With time, people lost their Lithuanian language and identity, and identify themselves as Polish, only with small Lithuanian minorities left in Punsk and some other place.
 
Kushnarevich used samples of Estonian Poles, actually they have self reporting Polish ancestry and mostly there were mixed with Estonians and Russians. They were completely unrepresentative as Polish reference.
 
It's actually not very surprising at all because mazovia or pomerania are primally baltic people territory, it would be interesting to compare poles and lituanians dna for exemple with possibly germanic imput from late antiquity wich would confirm that slavic speaking Poles, were an intrusive tribe with an elite who just took the gap create by germanic migrations. In conclusion, large part of modern poland have to be in major balts with change in cultural linguistic, like large part of east germany are slavic people with plattdeutsch for language.
 
halfalp said:
It's actually not very surprising at all because mazovia or pomerania are primally baltic people territory, it would be interesting to compare poles and lituanians dna for exemple with possibly germanic imput from late antiquity wich would confirm that slavic speaking Poles, were an intrusive tribe with an elite who just took the gap create by germanic migrations. In conclusion, large part of modern poland have to be in major balts with change in cultural linguistic, like large part of east germany are slavic people with plattdeutsch for language.
Click to expand...

Could be some inlfuence in Kasubians and northern Masovians. The problem is we don't have academic Masovian or Kashubian sample. I use Gedmatch kits of primarily Masovian and Kasubian ancestry in my calculations, Tomenable also the same dataset. But our results / PCA will be ignored by official scientists:)
 
srdceleva said:
I wrote out lists for all the other Slavic populations and wrote some interesting conclusions about the results from this study

Bulgaria
Macedonians-0,0000
Serbians - 0,0000
Bosnians/Croatians - 0,0007
Slovenians- 0,0012
Montenegrins - 0,0014
Slovaks - 0,0016
Macedonians
Bulgaria - 0,0000
Serbia - 0,0004
Bosnians/Croatians - 0,0007
Slovenia - 0,0013
Montenegrins/ Czechs - 0,0017
Slovaks - 0,0021
Montenegrins
Serbia - 0,0007
Bulgaria - 0,0014
Macedonians/Bosnians - 0,0017
Croatians - 0,0018
Slovenes - 0,0021
Slovaks - 0,0030
Serbia
Bulgaria - 0,0000
Croatians – 0,0002
Bosnians – 0,0003
Macedonians – 0,0004
Montenegrins – 0,0007
Czechs/Slovaks – 0,0012
Bosnia
Croatians – 0,0001
Serbia – 0,0003
Bulgarians/Macedonians – 0,0007
Slovenes/Czechs – 0,0008
Slovaks – 0,0010
Montenegrins – 0,0017
Croatians
Bosnians – 0,0001
Serbians – 0,0002
Slovenes/Czechs – 0,0004
Bulgarians/Macedonians – 0,0007
Slovaks – 0,0008
Montenegrins – 0,0018
Slovenians
Croatians – 0,0004
Slovaks/Bosnians – 0,0008
Ukrainians – 0,0009
Czechs – 0,0011
Bulgarians – 0,0012
Macedonians/Serbians – 0,0013
Czechs
Slovaks/Croatians – 0,0004
Poles – 0,0005
Ukrainians – 0,0007
Bosnians – 0,0008
South Russians – 0,0009
Slovenes/Belarusians – 0,0011
Slovaks
Czechs – 0,0004
Poles – 0,0006
Ukrainians – 0,0007
Croatians/Slovenians – 0,0008
Bosnians – 0,0010
Serbians/Belarusian/South Russians – 0,0012
Sorbs
Czechs/Ukrainians – 0,0021
Poles – 0,0022
Belarusian – 0,0023
Slovaks/South Russian – 0,0026
Croatians – 0,0028
Slovenians – 0,0029
Poles
Belarusians – 0,0000
Ukrainians – 0,0002
South Russians – 0,0004
Czechs – 0,0005
Slovaks – 0,0006
Russians Central – 0,0010
Ukrainians
Poles – 0,0002
Belarusians – 0,0003
South Russians – 0,0006
Slovaks/Czechs – 0,0007
Slovenians – 0,0009
Croatians – 0,0010
Belarusians
Poles – 0,0000
Ukrainians – 0,0003
South Russians – 0,0005
Lithuanians – 0,0008
Czechs – 0,0011
Slovaks/Central Russians – 0,0012
Russia South
Poles – 0,0004
Belarusians – 0,0005
Ukrainians – 0,0006
Central Russians – 0,0008
Czechs – 0,0009
Slovaks – 0,0012
Russia Central
South Russians – 0,0008
Poles – 0,0010
Belarusians/ Ukrainians – 0,0012
Latvians – 0,0014
Slovaks – 0,0018
Czechs/ Lithuanians – 0,0021
Russia North
Central Russians - 0,0059
South Russians – 0,0086
Poles – 0,0087
Belarusians/ Ukrainians – 0,0089
Latvians – 0,0096
Slovaks/Lithuanians – 0,0098
Interesting conclusions
Sorbs though largely from Slavic stock and distant to their Germanic neighbors are a genetic isolate and quite distant from all other Slavic populations. Their closest relatives being Czechs followed closely by poles

Montenegrins also seem to be a genetic isolate with their closest relatives being serbians (0,0007) followed by Bulgaria (0,0014). This could be due to the mountainous reigion they inhabit.


Poles( at least from North eastern Poland) and Belarusians are genetically indistinguishable. Ukraine/Poland/Belarus form a tight genetic group covering a very large geographic area. However the sampling in this study doesn’t account for regional differention such as western Ukraine and South Eastern Poland.

Czechs are genetically just as related to Slovaks as they are to Croatians. This could be due to the fact that R1a in both Croatia and the Czech republic are almost esclusively R1a-M458, while R1a in Slovakia is over 50% of East Slavic sub clads. An interesting note, is that this is the case for Slovenians as well, hence Slovaks are closer related to Slovenians than Czechs are.

Northern Russians are drastically different from other Slavic peoples genetically.
Click to expand...

That was a very interesting post about the genetic similarities of each Slavic nation. Also great conclusion on that too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

This thread has been viewed 23188 times.

Back
Top