Proto-Indo-Europeans = Proto-Dealers of Cannabis

[MarkoZ]

Thanks.The cultures of the Steppes show converging aspects whatever the language and ethnic affiliation; due to environmental adaptation and diverse exchanges? Even art can be exported/imported. RI suppose that for now Pazyryk language - if one only - is unknown. I 'll try to find the book you cited and see if the samples are big enough for statistics. All the way, if correct concerning types/status, this culture could very well be the cradle of future Turks??? The Scythian "empire" could be a mix of I-Eans and others according to time and places???

I don't think it's really possible to assign a language to pre-literate cultures like this, especially when the material culture is rather pan-Eurasian as is the case with the shamanistic animal style found in Pazyryk. The objects that are really distinctive seem to be imports from South Asia, namely Iran & India.

As regards to your proto-Turkic suggestion, I think Pazyryk is too old for that.

 

[MOESAN]

I don't think it's really possible to assign a language to pre-literate cultures like this, especially when the material culture is rather pan-Eurasian as is the case with the shamanistic animal style found in Pazyryk. The objects that are really distinctive seem to be imports from South Asia, namely Iran & India.

As regards to your proto-Turkic suggestion, I think Pazyryk is too old for that.

You surely noticed it was a "maybe" or a "perhaps"; but cultures exchange(d): it seems Scythian art had some imput on (late) celtic art so...
Your remark concerning language is one I red more than a time here and there; but don't forget languages are for the most born by proto-languages themselves born bt proto-proto-languages. As for haplos, Y-R1b-P312 is born by Y-R1b-L11: thinking people with P312 are steeply different from people with L11 is a perspective error I found very often in posts. Concerning language my loose hypothesis was that maybe in Altay (more East) there was a population ancestral to futur Turks or Huns with the corresponding ancestral stage of language, and in contact with I-Eans having reached the Altay.the big mobility of all the steppes population could (not: "can") explain the art influences? In BMAC region we saw stations with BMAC pottery and Steppics weapons, if I red well.
The ethnic / linguistic borders are not always so easy to detect based only upon archeology, if we lack language and DNA (and even with them!)
Good afternoon.

 

[MOESAN]

Some possible readings concerning Great Central Asia. I haven't red them, only cross-looked at them. Let's google them. It concerns more Siberia than Central Asia proper but they are at the borders and interacted with I-Eans of East and of South at some stages of History.



Iron Age Nomads of Southern Siberia in craniofacial perspective. RW Schmidt & AA Evleev

Tracing the Origin of the East-West Population Admixture in the Altai - M GOnzalez Ruiz 2012

Non-metric Traits in Early Iron Age Cranial Serie from Western and Southern Siberia (Siberia Anthropology - Doi / VG Moiseyev Museum of Anthorpology)

 

[Tomenable]

where is the oldest R1a1a found?

In Karelia.

 

[MOESAN]

I think this is a fitting thread for me to tell you that I've always needed to smoke weed to understand your posts. This isn't a bad thing. I think it's because they're dense.

Of course I don't mean this literally, but for some reason I noticed when I'm blowing through a thread I slow down on your posts. Unless I'm stoned, in which case I appreciate the succinctness.

Some little taste of irony? Or rather cool humor, I think, according to your other posts. It's true I try to write the less posts possible and put in them a lot of stuff, not always with the clearest syntax or the most logical order. I 'll try to do well in future. But human story research is based upon many aspects and I try to put them all in the same bag very often. Nos vad.

 

[MOESAN]

this looks good to me

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10734&d=1470068892

THanks, I'd saw it before: mainstream copy. One possibility, among others, though it's my preferred one todate.
But it doesn't answer the question: when/where begun the I-Ean / Turkic-Hunnic transition around Altay?
I think first Turcs and Huns were on the side of the 'east-asian' people, rather SE Asia than Siberia, spite mixtures among the mongoloid types. If I rely on the Pazyryk study evocating male/dominant and female/lower class opposition for types (mongoloid vs europoid) I'm tempted to think it was the time (IA) and one of the places of the Turcs or proto-Turcs rising, taking the strong side upon the ancient masters, the I-Eans. Possible.

 

[Milan]

Kapnobatai

From Wikipedia

Kapnobatai, meaning "those who walk on/in smoke/clouds", were ancient shamans and descendants of the Scythians as well as the Thracians and Dacians who burned cannabis flowers to induce a state of trance.It is believed that as cannabis slowly spread westward, these peoples were introduced to it by the ancient Aryans, of whom in turn were introduced to it by the ancient Assyrians, and them by the ancient Hindus. These past cultures were some of the very first to smoke cannabis for recreational and spiritual purposes.