Germanic-Slavic Friendship

arvistro said:
Ok, to that I agree.
I misinterpreted that posting of Slavic-Germanic friendship examples was seen as sympathizing of nazi. Although perhaps it would make some sense that when doing German-Slavic friendship topic the initial post would feature "the relationship of both groups was complicated and XX century featured the nazi..., but here I want to show examples that both ethnic groups could live together in harmony..".

Anyway this is true that in East Europe there is a room for extremism, political or not. But not just East Europe, anywhere where there is a social stress.
I observed it myself in very young age, when I had issues with jobs and salaries and had to live eating potatoes only (a little exaggeration). I was at state of aggression against the world and I can easily see how in such a state of insecurity, when someone is pointing to the guilty ones and does it with authority... How people can follow that pointer like a sheep.
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Yes, I think we're in total agreement. When people are under economic stress they can more easily lose their ability to think clearly, and can be led to act out against scapegoats. Heck, in the field of domestic law it's just a given that when a man loses his job the odds of domestic violence occurring go up. So, the scapegoat can even sometimes be the people we most love. It's very sad, but it's reality, I'm afraid.

Then, there's the whole "herd" or "group psychology" effect. People in a group are prone to much more terrible behavior than individuals. People often don't want to go against their group.

I think it's infinitely easier to believe terrible things about other groups when you've never intimately known a member of that group. That's something that happens very often in America, which is why extremist rhetoric is given less credence. Some places in Europe are much more homogeneous and so it's easier to be afraid of others.
 
People only mention WW2 or crusades vs. Pagan Slavs, but it is a much more complex picture, not a black-and-white one.

I would divide the history of German-Slavic interactions in Eastern-Central Europe (excluding Russian lands) like this:

ca. 500-660 Slavic expansions until the end of Samo's Slavic realm
ca. 660-740 consolidation and further expansion of Slavic polities
ca. 740-905 from contacts with the Franks to the end of Great Moravia
ca. 905-983 the first German conquest of Elbe-Oder Slavic lands
ca. 983 the Great Slavic Uprising ends German rules in Polabia
ca. 983-1120 times of independent Pagan Polabian Slavic polities
ca. 1120-1210/26 crusades against and conquest of Polabian Slavs
ca. 1211/27 - 1409 times of German expansion east of the Oder
1410-1561 German polities lost ground and some lost independence
1561-1772 political stability (but in 1657 Prussia gains independence)
1772-1795 the Partitions of Poland between Russia, Prussia, Austria
1796-1815 times of the Napoleonic Wars and the Duchy of Warsaw
1815-1918 from Vienna Congress, Spring of Nations, to end of WW1
1918-1922 Polish-Czechoslovak independence and border disputes
1922-1939 the Inter-War period, German annexations in 1938-1939
1939-1945 World War 2 and the destruction of the "German East"
1945-1990 the "Cold War" and the division between the two Blocs
1990-2016 German reunification, integration with Slavic neighbours
 
What is the point of stressing the insignificant "friendship" between two ethnolinguistic families? I'm very proud to be a Slav, and wish for amicable relations between Slavic peoples, and I respect Germanic culture, but I have absolutely no idea why anyone would make a point of a Slavo-Germanic alliance.
 
A Pan-European alliance would be ideal of course, not just Slavo-Germanic.
 
We have that in EU. And now are running towards pan-World alliance.
 
Tomenable said:
People only mention WW2 or crusades vs. Pagan Slavs, but it is a much more complex picture, not a black-and-white one.

I would divide the history of German-Slavic interactions in Eastern-Central Europe (excluding Russian lands) like this:

ca. 500-660 Slavic expansions until the end of Samo's Slavic realm
ca. 660-740 consolidation and further expansion of Slavic polities
ca. 740-905 from contacts with the Franks to the end of Great Moravia
ca. 905-983 the first German conquest of Elbe-Oder Slavic lands
ca. 983 the Great Slavic Uprising ends German rules in Polabia
ca. 983-1120 times of independent Pagan Polabian Slavic polities
ca. 1120-1210/26 crusades against and conquest of Polabian Slavs
ca. 1211/27 - 1409 times of German expansion east of the Oder
1410-1561 German polities lost ground and some lost independence
1561-1772 political stability (but in 1657 Prussia gains independence)
1772-1795 the Partitions of Poland between Russia, Prussia, Austria
1796-1815 times of the Napoleonic Wars and the Duchy of Warsaw
1815-1918 from Vienna Congress, Spring of Nations, to end of WW1
1918-1922 Polish-Czechoslovak independence and border disputes
1922-1939 the Inter-War period, German annexations in 1938-1939
1939-1945 World War 2 and the destruction of the "German East"
1945-1990 the "Cold War" and the division between the two Blocs
1990-2016 German reunification, integration with Slavic neighbours
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I mentioned the crusades because the Polish nobility participated in them against the Polabians you probably won't talk about today.There was alliances and i agree with that too.I know is not black and white picture.
I know that Poland played a big role in saving Vienna from the Ottomans,but only some hundred years later Poland was divided between Austria,Prussia and Russia like you mentioned,history is like that,there is no justice even in our lands manipulation was frequent,some have more luck in history some don't,this was repeated by Stalin and Hitler,Poland was no useful i guess in certain periods of time to some "great" powers.
As for the friendship goes it can happen and is happening but should be less nationalistic bias from either side.
 
Can you tell me if genetic differences within Europe (e.g. Slavic countries vs. Germanic ones) are greater than within China?:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...r-autosomal-genetic-diversity-Europe-or-China

I couldn't find such data anywhere. But China, despite being one state, has more people and a comparable area as Europe:

China_Europe.png


So I wonder whether China is actually more genetically homogeneous than Europe, or less homogeneous than Europe.
 
AFAIK the Chinese are a mostly Neolithic-descended population, without any Post-Neolithic replacement. On the other hand, in Europe there was a Post-Neolithic, Bronze Age replacement and a process of homogenization, caused by the massive migration from the Steppe. So Europeans are a younger population, and thus I guess that they should be even more homogeneous.

See the most recent summary of Europe's population history:

http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2016/09/01/072926.full.pdf
 
OK, I made a comparison (based on data from this graph):

https://jaymans.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/global-genetic-distances-map.jpg

Left side (map) = geographical distances (sampling locations)

Right side (graph) = genetical distances between populations

Genetic_Distances.png


^^^
Conclusion:

Europeans are about as close to each other, as are the Chinese (+ Koreans + Japanese).

However, when we exclude "genetic outliers" among Europeans, such as:

- Komi and Mari
- Sardinians
- the Adygei
- Lapps (Sami)

Then after such exclusion, the rest of Europeans are more closely related than Chinese.
 
Boreas said:
Totally true in 1280, but now Latins

Even Slavic's are dividing

Because of Serb-Croat conflict and Poland/Ukraine-Russia
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We really don't have that many problems nowadays. Our common enemy is Islam and the usurpation of Croat- and Serb-inhabited land in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
 
Haven't you heard? There are definitely those who think that if only the Nazis had realized that the eastern Europeans were actually just as, if not more Aryan than themselves, they could have taken over all of Europe and gotten rid of the real untermenschen.

It's apparently never too late to make the holy alliance, however.
 
hmm

it depends who we consider germanic and who Slavic I think.

as for history, may i remind,

Austro-hungarian empire, Ribbentrop-Molotov, Warsaw pact,

choose,
 
Angela do you really need to associate everything with Nazism? That was freaking 75 years ago.

they could have taken over all of Europe and gotten rid of the real untermenschen.
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As you did with Indians? Hitler's concept of "Lebensraum" was actually inspired by American history.

Let's not forget that there are more Jews in the world today than there are Native North Americans.
 
I rely on what idiots living in the first two decades of the 21st century think and say. It's all over the internet. I just hope it's not here.

These kinds of competitions as to which conqueror was more brutal, which people have committed the most atrocities against other human beings, are just an irrelevant distraction, an attempt to deflect attention from the facts, not a logical response.

You don't find any Americans forming groups dedicated to the idea that what happened to the Native Americans was great and wonderful, too bad we didn't get all of them, and let's organize so we can do a better job this time around. Oh, and the descendants of the Cherokee are not clamoring to be let into the elite group on the grounds that they have so much "white" blood that they should be part of the superior race too.

Get the distinction?
 
Angela said:
Haven't you heard? There are definitely those who think that if only the Nazis had realized that the eastern Europeans were actually just as, if not more Aryan than themselves, they could have taken over all of Europe and gotten rid of the real untermenschen.

It's apparently never too late to make the holy alliance, however.
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Yes, Slavs are the master race if we can change the definition just a little bit to be more accepting of brachycephalic individuals ;)
 
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