Updated chronological tree of Y-haplogroups

Maciamo

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I have updated the timeline of Y-DNA haplogroups on the page Origins of European haplogroups. It hadn't been updated for over 6 years, so some age estimates were badly off. I have used the latest estimates from Yfull.com.

haplogroups-timeline.png



The wider version with the mtDNA tree can be found here.
 
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You tree does not match M.van Oven............the creator of all the trees

The error is that Haplogroup TL split from K , before NOPMS split from K

once TL split the others remaining where named K2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_K2

The NO haplogroups then split off from K2 and became K2a

and so remaining K2 became K2b

K2b then split into P and M and S haplogroups ~35000 years ago which is 10000years after you state it began



K2 got its name in 2014
The name K2 was introduced in 2014, following dissatisfaction with the previous names.

K(xLT), the name introduced by the Y Chromosome Consortium in 2012 to replace MNOPS, was controversial. Under the previous methodology, a term such as "K(xLT)" designated all clades and subclades that belonged to K, but did not belong to Haplogroup LT; the haplogroups subordinate to MNOPS would likely have been renamed "U", "V", "W" and "X", and MNOPS would therefore have become "MNOPSUVWX". This posed a problem, because there was no way to disambiguate between "K(xLT)" in the broad and narrow meanings of the term.
 
You tree does not match M.van Oven............the creator of all the trees

The error is that Haplogroup TL split from K , before NOPMS split from K

once TL split the others remaining where named K2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_K2

The NO haplogroups then split off from K2 and became K2a

and so remaining K2 became K2b

K2b then split into P and M and S haplogroups ~35000 years ago which is 10000years after you state it began



K2 got its name in 2014
The name K2 was introduced in 2014, following dissatisfaction with the previous names.

K(xLT), the name introduced by the Y Chromosome Consortium in 2012 to replace MNOPS, was controversial. Under the previous methodology, a term such as "K(xLT)" designated all clades and subclades that belonged to K, but did not belong to Haplogroup LT; the haplogroups subordinate to MNOPS would likely have been renamed "U", "V", "W" and "X", and MNOPS would therefore have become "MNOPSUVWX". This posed a problem, because there was no way to disambiguate between "K(xLT)" in the broad and narrow meanings of the term.

I know but K2 split from K almost immediately and there was just not enough space on the tree to list both. You have to understand that this kind of tree is schematic and its purpose is to give a broad idea of when haplogroups developed in relation to major events in prehistory. For minute details, check Yfull.com or the like.

The phylogenetic trees I made for each haplogroup complete this tree, especially since the Neolithic and Bronze Age when there was an explosion of subclades that is impossible to render on such a chart.
 
I know but K2 split from K almost immediately and there was just not enough space on the tree to list both. You have to understand that this kind of tree is schematic and its purpose is to give a broad idea of when haplogroups developed in relation to major events in prehistory. For minute details, check Yfull.com or the like.

The phylogenetic trees I made for each haplogroup complete this tree, especially since the Neolithic and Bronze Age when there was an explosion of subclades that is impossible to render on such a chart.

But TL split from K hapologroup ( most likely eastern iran ) at 45400years ago , same time that K2 formed which comprised of PMSNO .

NO split as per your tree at around 41500 years ago ( most likely burmese area )............which is 4000 years after TL , yet you have them as equal.

point is , you will not have a K2 haplogroup unless TL split off , there where no other haplogroups that can cause the K2 formation with this
 
If I1 is around 28,000 years old and I1a is around 4,000 years old (I understand these are estimations), and I1a accounts for 99% of all I1 lineages alive today does that mean 99% of the I1 lineages alive between 28,000 and 4,000 are now extinct? Does that mean I1 was not that prevalent around Europe during those years or more so that the majority of those lineages were wiped out by the R Indo Europeans?
 
If I1 is around 28,000 years old and I1a is around 4,000 years old (I understand these are estimations), and I1a accounts for 99% of all I1 lineages alive today does that mean 99% of the I1 lineages alive between 28,000 and 4,000 are now extinct? Does that mean I1 was not that prevalent around Europe during those years or more so that the majority of those lineages were wiped out by the R Indo Europeans?
No simple answer to your questions, there are several things to consider:

Subgroups are defined, only if they can be recognized. As long as there are only a few people known with the same mutations, they are regarded as private mutations, no groups. So you need a certain threshhold which has to be reached, until a new subgroup can be defined. There may be a lot of subgroups hidden in some haplogroup even if there are no subgroups known, they are not extinct but dormant.

Yes indeed, many subgroups go extinct and evolution works usually against the smallest members. Consider a mountain village of 100 male people, but only one with HG I1. Over night an avalanche wipes out 30% of the population. So only 0.7 individuals of I1 statistically survived, but it can only be either none or one. Several repetitions of catastrophes (bottlenecks) will always have the tendency to wipe out the smallest groups. Over time that makes the extinction of small subgroups practically inevitable.

The reproduction of a group heavily depends on their lifestyle. Agricultural communities can feed more people than others, they will be preferred by evolution, pastoral communities can produce less food, but they are still in a better position than hunter-gatherers, who don't have their life stock around the whole year. Demography won't be in favour of the hunters and it is assumed that I1 was a hunter-gatherer group until the third millenium BC.

When things suddenly change to the better for the small groups there can be only a few reasons for this. Either the environment has changed to the disadvantage of the dominant groups or the small groups changed their lifestyle, so their disadvantage is gone. A third possibility is that the small group has been assimilated by a more successful group. They will propagate more than before, thus may become 'visible' for the geneticist, but there is still the tendency to reduce (in percentage of the main group) over time due to the effect of bottlenecks described above. So they still can become 'extinct' even as part of the greater group.

Typical for HG I1 is that they began to split into several groups in a time where R1a (subgroups M458 and Z280) and R1b (U106 and P312) were taking over in Europe (about 4500 years ago). There are good reasons to assume that there is a connection, that Indoeuropeans forced changes in I1, be it the lifestyle or assimilation.
 
Thanks for the insight! Those are definitely evolutionary factors I had not considered before. It's just mind boggling to think that all these millions of I1a people alive (around 99%) today descend from one man in the recent past 5000 years and that those tens or hundred of thousands of I1 folks who were spread throughout Europe and had 25,000 years to evolve only compromise 1% today.
 

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