Haplogroup Characteristics - R

[Dinarid]

I know the idea of a relationship between Y-DNA haplogroups and certain physical/personality traits has already been discussed. I still find it unfortunate, that many people are so quick to repeat as fact that all traits are associated with autosomal DNA and anything that disagrees is pseudoscience even though they are the ones with nothing to back up their claims. Rather sad. The Y chromosome clearly contains genes for height, which I see as an obvious explanation for why men with Haplogroup I are usually of above-average stature.

But now I wish to talk about personality- the success of Haplogroup R in particular. Can this be related to personality? Are men with Haplogroup R often just more successful at conquering and expanding? I imagine that in Europe millennia ago, it was most frequently the men with Haplogroup R who would have relationships with multiple women. Perhaps R-men are naturally more adventurous and inclined towards exploration and conquest. Maybe this trait is shared with the 'brother' haplogroup Q, whose members crossed a land-bridge and settled two entire continents, and would dominate them, outcompeting C by far. It seems as though I-men like myself are more committed to our land- more territorial. I also believe that the men who are most likely to be socially dominant or influential will be those with R.

If we look at a list of US presidents by Y-DNA the vast majority are R (specifically R1b), quite disproportionate to the population. This is especially true of European kings as well.

http://atlas.xyvy.info/country-national-haplogroup-chart-dna/united-states-of-america

Haplogroup maps of Europe as you all know are all over Eupedia, as are lists of European male royalty and US presidents by Y-DNA haplogroups.

But this is not to suggest that R-men are better leaders (I would never!). In many cases, we are although I won't get into I personality traits yet. Their aggressiveness and passion seems to propel them further.

 

[Twilight]

I haven't heard anything about Autosomal DNA being linked to personality. However I'm not sure if there is any study relating to Ydna and personality either. Ydna R is most common haplogroup for Europeans following Ydna I.

 

[Dinarid]

I haven't heard anything about Autosomal DNA being linked to personality. However I'm not sure if there is any study relating to Ydna and personality either. Ydna R is most common haplogroup for Europeans following Ydna I.

R is the most common, I is second.

I wish to make clear that I don't ascribe all of human potential and intelligence to DNA like some here, which I find disturbing and saddening. I think it is a combination of environment, genes, and human free will, and I believe science supports this conclusion.

As far as autosomal vs. Y chromosome, I am almost certain that genes at least related to personality traits are found in autosomal DNA, and that we will discover genes at least related to personality on the Y chromosome as well.

I am certain that there are genes for height found within the non recombinant area of the Y chromosome, and that these are the reason men with Haplogroup I are usually taller.

 

[MarkoZ]

I'd say this is mostly due to natural distribution. What would you expect the Western European upper class to have if not R1b?

 

[Dinarid]

I'd say this is mostly due to natural distribution. What would you expect the Western European upper class to have if not R1b?

I would think that the haplogroups would be evenly distributed. It is one thing for R to be a majority, but it is vastly overrepresented.

 

[MarkoZ]

I would think that the haplogroups would be evenly distributed. It is one thing for R to be a majority, but it is vastly overrepresented.

What lead you to believe that it is vastly overrepresented? The British Isles are overwhelmingly R1b - black slaves and their descendants would have had only a very small chance at becoming presidents until very recently. The same was true for continental European immigrants for that matter.

 

[Angela]

Goodness, I guess no one read my thread on this study about the heritability of human traits:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...uman-traits-based-on-50-years-of-twin-studies

The study doesn't show, and I don't recall anyone here saying that all human variability is down to genetics.

As for height, we're starting to learn a lot about the genetics of it, and so far it's all autosomally based.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33529-Coding-Variants-for-height?highlight=height

 

[Dinarid]

Goodness, I guess no one read my thread on this study about the heritability of human traits:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...uman-traits-based-on-50-years-of-twin-studies

The study doesn't show, and I don't recall anyone here saying that all human variability is down to genetics.

As for height, we're starting to learn a lot about the genetics of it, and so far it's all autosomally based.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33529-Coding-Variants-for-height?highlight=height

I'm sorry I didn't happen to come across that study. I never, ever said that any one post in particular attributed all human variability to genetics. I do however see posts on the forum of that nature, and can list examples if you want.

As far as height being all autosomally based, that's clearly refuted by genes located on the Y chromosome.
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-lookup/doi/10.1210/jcem.86.9.7875

 

[Dinarid]

What lead you to believe that it is vastly overrepresented? The British Isles are overwhelmingly R1b - black slaves and their descendants would have had only a very small chance at becoming presidents until very recently. The same was true for continental European immigrants for that matter.

It's not only Britain. Haplogroup I is also present there, and in the USA, as are E, G, and J, and others albeit at lower frequencies. Almost all US presidents for whom haplogroups are availble have been R, out of a population in which it reaches ~50%.

 

[gyms]

As far as height being all autosomally based, that's clearly refuted by genes located on the Y chromosome.
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/articl...jcem.86.9.7875

Tis study is from 2001!

"Rare causes of abnormal stature have been identified, including mutations in the gene encoding aromatase (CYP19) and regions on the Y chromosome. However, the possible role of these loci in the genetic control of normal adult height is unknown."

 

[Dinarid]

As far as height being all autosomally based, that's clearly refuted by genes located on the Y chromosome.
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/articl...jcem.86.9.7875

Tis study is from 2001!

"Rare causes of abnormal stature have been identified, including mutations in the gene encoding aromatase (CYP19) and regions on the Y chromosome. However, the possible role of these loci in the genetic control of normal adult height is unknown."

Even if it has not been proven that they affect normal adult height, it is a fact that they do affect height albeit with abnormal mutations. We know that these are some of the genes affecting height and that they are on the Y chromosome.

 

[Valerius]

These things like ethnic expansions and conquering happened thousands of years ago. Can't see any realtion to Ydna. It was connected to the type of warrior culture which was pretty common for different kinds of people back in the day. Another connection was the technology - metalurgy, horses, wooden cars and chariots. The R haplogroups seem to be very abundant and common nowadays and that is hardly making it a factor of the personal success of the different individuals.

 

[Dinarid]

These things like ethnic expansions and conquering happened thousands of years ago. Can't see any realtion to Ydna. It was connected to the type of warrior culture which was pretty common for different kinds of people back in the day. Another connection was the technology - metalurgy, horses, wooden cars and chariots. The R haplogroups seem to be very abundant and common nowadays and that is hardly making it a factor of some success or anything.

Sent from my LG-P710 using Eupedia Forum mobile app

It seems very much related to success. I am well aware that it the majority of European men belong to Haplogroup R. My point is that even so, the factor by which it comprises the majority of various male rulers throughout history is disproportionate for both European kings and US presidents.

 

[Valerius]

It seems very much related to success. I am well aware that it the majority of European men belong to Haplogroup R. My point is that even so, the factor by which it comprises the majority of various male rulers throughout history is disproportionate for both European kings and US presidents.

The success in these populations, as far as I see it, is rather rooted in the economy - R1b is pretty common in Western and Northern Europe, well developed areas. But also there's lots of R1a in places like Ukraine, Moldova, Russia, Belarus and in these places most of the people are hardly successful, yet again due to economical reasons. And this division is again rooted not in genes but in politics and economy - Eastern Europe was in the Red block while the West was into the free market, which turned out to be most successful to this day, while the Red block simply went trough a full fiasco and bankruptcy. Also the R1b populations, or let say the Western world, simply started this economical and technological cycle and that makes them on the top of the social and cultural pyramid right now, but I doubt this has anything to do with Ydna alone, its a matter of huge events like the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, the Industrial revolution and so on and with the resources "kindly" provided by the lands of Africa, Americas or Asia. And all this happened because of long chain of events connected to the fall of the Roman empire and the rise of the Germanic people. I think that the R hg is too huge in Europe to be a criterion of something now. It is simply what most of the Europeans are - and there are successful and unsuccessful people shoulder to shoulder, even with the same R hg.

 

[Twilight]

R is the most common, I is second.

I meant the say that, thanks for correcting my wording :laughter:

I wish to make clear that I don't ascribe all of human potential and intelligence to DNA like some here, which I find disturbing and saddening. I think it is a combination of environment, genes, and human free will, and I believe science supports this conclusion.

As far as autosomal vs. Y chromosome, I am almost certain that genes at least related to personality traits are found in autosomal DNA, and that we will discover genes at least related to personality on the Y chromosome as well.

I am certain that there are genes for height found within the non recombinant area of the Y chromosome, and that these are the reason men with Haplogroup I are usually taller.

Goodness, I guess no one read my thread on this study about the heritability of human traits:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...uman-traits-based-on-50-years-of-twin-studies

The study doesn't show, and I don't recall anyone here saying that all human variability is down to genetics.

As for height, we're starting to learn a lot about the genetics of it, and so far it's all autosomally based.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33529-Coding-Variants-for-height?highlight=height

I do apologize, yes I'm afraid I'm just getting started on learning about this this is new to me. Thank you for the link Angela
Sent from my iPad

 

[Expredel]

The Y chromosome clearly contains genes for height, which I see as an obvious explanation for why men with Haplogroup I are usually of above-average stature.

The Y chromosome doesn't have to encode genes, all that's required is for it to change gene expression.

If we look at a list of US presidents by Y-DNA the vast majority are R (specifically R1b), quite disproportionate to the population. This is especially true of European kings as well.

People like people who are similar, so if Y haplogroup affects personality R1b might be more likely to vote R1b. This would have a whole slew of additional implications, as this would mean R1b is more likely to hire or promote other R1b men. Same for other Y haplogroups, which then means the Y haplogroup that is best at self-promotion is the most successful.

Some research showed that right-brained teachers favor right-brained students, and vice versa.

 

[IronSide]

I am Haplogroup I2 but my height is 170 cm, I don't feel tall.

 

[Dinarid]

I am Haplogroup I2 but my height is 170 cm, I don't feel tall.

There are always exceptions. I'm talking about averages.

 

[Dinarid]

The Y chromosome doesn't have to encode genes, all that's required is for it to change gene expression.


People like people who are similar, so if Y haplogroup affects personality R1b might be more likely to vote R1b. This would have a whole slew of additional implications, as this would mean R1b is more likely to hire or promote other R1b men. Same for other Y haplogroups, which then means the Y haplogroup that is best at self-promotion is the most successful.

Some research showed that right-brained teachers favor right-brained students, and vice versa.

Interesting theory. That would mean that something about the Y chromosome allows men with similar Y chromosomes to detect each other subconsciously- as in one R1b man seeking out another R1b man.

 

[Dinarid]

The success in these populations, as far as I see it, is rather rooted in the economy - R1b is pretty common in Western and Northern Europe, well developed areas. But also there's lots of R1a in places like Ukraine, Moldova, Russia, Belarus and in these places most of the people are hardly successful, yet again due to economical reasons. And this division is again rooted not in genes but in politics and economy - Eastern Europe was in the Red block while the West was into the free market, which turned out to be most successful to this day, while the Red block simply went trough a full fiasco and bankruptcy. Also the R1b populations, or let say the Western world, simply started this economical and technological cycle and that makes them on the top of the social and cultural pyramid right now, but I doubt this has anything to do with Ydna alone, its a matter of huge events like the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, the Industrial revolution and so on and with the resources "kindly" provided by the lands of Africa, Americas or Asia. And all this happened because of long chain of events connected to the fall of the Roman empire and the rise of the Germanic people. I think that the R hg is too huge in Europe to be a criterion of something now. It is simply what most of the Europeans are - and there are successful and unsuccessful people shoulder to shoulder, even with the same R hg.

But I am talking about different haplogroups within the same population.