Autosomal differences FTDNA and GENO 2.0 (Genographic project)

[Ysengrin]

Hello everyone,

I tested my autosomal dna with 2 different companies and I note that the results are not the same. For example with FTDNA i'm 30% from west and central europe but with geno 2.0 I have no information for this region but they indicated that I have 41% of southern europe and 22% of the British islands (27% and 11% with FTDNA). Could you explain to me what these differences are due to?

Thank you !

 

[Valerius]

If you are tested by Geno 2.0 then you would eventually have the same autosomal results in FTDNA because Geno 2.0 are using the calculators of the FTDNA labs or that was the case some months ago. It's strange if they are different but anyway it's not a big deal because the so-called regions Western and Central Europe and British Island (and sometimes even the Scandinavian cluster) are hardly distinguishable from one another in the different calculators. That's why in the newest Geno version (Helix) these 3 regions are combined into a single cluster. So you have the same amount of that northwestern aDNA but interpreted in different breakdowns.

 

[Ysengrin]

I knew that genographic was using FTDNA for its calculations and I think the difference is actually in the interpretation of the results. What seems really strange to me is that with the interpretation of FTDNA western europe and central europe represent the majority of my autosomal dna whereas genographic do not even talk about it. But i know they have a cluser for the western europe. Thank you for your answer.

 

[Maciamo]

Each company's autosomal report is different because they don't use the same number of model populations. Furthermore companies like FTDNA do not even attempt to match regions with real ethnic groups. Neither Geno 2.0 not FTDNA's autosomal ancestry reports are very useful. You can read more about the differences between autosomal reports in the special review here.

 

[Ysengrin]

Thank you for the clarification Maciamo

Is there a company that offers more accurate autosomal tests ?

 

[Valerius]

Maciamo, do you think that Geno 2.0 and FTDNA's autosomal results are completely wrong? Or just not the best choice? And what do you think of that free calculator DNA.LAND? DnaLand is giving me kinda different results than FTDNA so I wonder.

 

[Maciamo]

Thank you for the clarification Maciamo

Is there a company that offers more accurate autosomal tests ?

LivingDNA and BritainsDNA have the best reports. I assume from you question that you didn't even bother check my link.

 

[Maciamo]

Maciamo, do you think that Geno 2.0 and FTDNA's autosomal results are completely wrong? Or just not the best choice? And what do you think of that free calculator DNA.LAND? DnaLand is giving me kinda different results than FTDNA so I wonder.

Geno 2.0 are mostly useless for Europeans has they only provide two regions of Europe (north and south). FTDNA regions are useless as they don't match ethnicities (Mediterranean without distinction between Iberians, Basques, Sardinians, North vs South Italians, etc.).

In addition to being useless, I can tell from my experience (and a few other people I know) that FTDNA's results are often wrong, and in my case completely wrong since none of the regions listed matched my country of ancestry.

 

[Valerius]

Geno 2.0 are mostly useless for Europeans has they only provide two regions of Europe (north and south). FTDNA regions are useless as they don't match ethnicities (Mediterranean without distinction between Iberians, Basques, Sardinians, North vs South Italians, etc.).

In addition to being useless, I can tell from my experience (and a few other people I know) that FTDNA's results are often wrong, and in my case completely wrong since none of the regions listed matched my country of ancestry.

Geno 2.0 are not using this division (North and South) anymore. It was first updated with Geno 2.0 "Next Gen" where they were using the same categories as FTDNA. Since the end of 2016 there's another new update called "Helix" that is using new categories (http://static1.businessinsider.com/...een-in-either-23andme-or-ancestrydna-test.jpg).
I don't know if this old North/South version is even available anymore.

From what I've seen the main problem with FTDNA are those three regions (Western and Central/British Isles/Scandinavia) because they overlap too much and the different companies are dividing them in different way. Now FTDNA are making MyOrigins 2.0 with even more regions like division between Italy and Balkans which would be interesting if it's accurate.

 

[Ysengrin]

Sorry maciamo I haven't seen your link right now

 

[mwauthy]

I find the autosomal companies to be misleading in regards to where your ancestors were born. They might have a generalized view for certain regions and ethnicities, but even then it can vary significantly from company to company.

On paper I can trace the vast majority of my paternal ancestors to Wallonia Belgium to the 1600s. On paper the vast majority of my maternal ancestors are French Canadian to the 1600s as well. So I figured to score high Western European scores. I average around 50% Western European for all 3 companies but it's the other 50% that varies greatly from company to company.

Ancestry DNA: 25% Iberian peninsula
13% Scandinavian
6% Great Britain
3% Italian
3% Irish
FTDNA: 40% British Isles
3% Southern Europe
2% Scandinavia
23andMe: British Isles 23.4%
Scandinavian 0%
Broadly NW Euro 31.3%
Broadly Southern 9%
Iberian: 0.8%
Sardinian 0.7%
Italian 0.3%

As far as I know I have no ancestors born in the British isles, Iberian peninsula, Scandinavia or Italy. Since Belgium and France were part of the Roman Empire for 450 years I expected higher Italian percentages. I expected low percentages for Scandinavia because of French Canadians from Normandy and because of the Franks in Belgium and because my y haplogroup is I-S26361. I expected low Iberian results because of the French Canadians from La Rochelle.

 

[Maciamo]

I find the autosomal companies to be misleading in regards to where your ancestors were born. They might have a generalized view for certain regions and ethnicities, but even then it can vary significantly from company to company.

On paper I can trace the vast majority of my paternal ancestors to Wallonia Belgium to the 1600s. On paper the vast majority of my maternal ancestors are French Canadian to the 1600s as well. So I figured to score high Western European scores. I average around 50% Western European for all 3 companies but it's the other 50% that varies greatly from company to company.

Ancestry DNA: 25% Iberian peninsula
13% Scandinavian
6% Great Britain
3% Italian
3% Irish
FTDNA: 40% British Isles
3% Southern Europe
2% Scandinavia
23andMe: British Isles 23.4%
Scandinavian 0%
Broadly NW Euro 31.3%
Broadly Southern 9%
Iberian: 0.8%
Sardinian 0.7%
Italian 0.3%

As far as I know I have no ancestors born in the British isles, Iberian peninsula, Scandinavia or Italy. Since Belgium and France were part of the Roman Empire for 450 years I expected higher Italian percentages. I expected low percentages for Scandinavia because of French Canadians from Normandy and because of the Franks in Belgium and because my y haplogroup is I-S26361. I expected low Iberian results because of the French Canadians from La Rochelle.

AncestryDNA and FTDNA aren't reliable when it comes to autosomal ancestry. There is no way you could have 25% of Iberian ancestry if you are from Belgium and/or France (except Spanish border).

What is you percentage of French & German at 23andMe? It mostly indicates Frankish ancestry, with a Gaulish substrate. The British & Irish at 23andMe includes both Insular Celts and Anglo-Saxon ancestry. It ranges between 15 and 40% in the Low Countries and 20-25% in Denmark. They really should split it in two (Irish/Scottish/Welsh vs Anglo-Saxon/Dutch).

Belgians score between 0 and 3.5% of Italian at 23andMe. Even in terms of Y-DNA it looks like the Roman contribution wasn't much than 5%, less than I expected. I wrote about all this in the Genetic history of the Benelux & France (which I have fully updated over the last two weeks).

 

[mwauthy]

On 23andMe I had 31.4% French and German.

My mom is 100% French Canadian back to 1650 and she got 33% Iberian Peninsula and less than 1% Western European on Ancestry DNA. I thought that was absurd.

 

[Ysengrin]

Are the gedmatch tests such as eurogenes K36 or dodecad V3 realy more reliable for europeans ?

 

[mwauthy]

Eurogenes K15 seems to be somewhat reliable because they use generalized regions like Atlantic or North Sea rather than countries like England or Italy. My friend who is primarily British got practically the same results as me who is Belgian and French. Plus my French score was only 6% and he got 7% which was odd. I feel the Iberian and Italian percentages are inflated on Eurogenes 36.