Mediterranean migration layers in Sicily and southern Italy

[Azzurro]

Which is exactly what you're doing.

No definitely not, who did I attack??? Gioiello is on a different level, he is as bad as those Nordicists.

 

[A. Papadimitriou]

I find him big time racist and insulting, he is absolutely the worst in my opinion. His refugia theory is not true, and he attacks everyone.

They can prove him wrong with ancient samples.

(Either way, your theories aren't accepted either. I didn't comment because a distant connection is possible, but what you said about Hurrians is certainly debateable)

 

[Azzurro]

They can prove him wrong with ancient samples.

(Either way, your theories aren't accepted either. I didn't comment because a distant connection is possible, but what you said about Hurrians is certainly debateable)

They are not accepted here, and again just because I have my own theories doesn't make them absolute truth, I can be right or wrong, and side note the Greeks have a large gene flow to Southern Italy too, the largest of non Italic peoples. There is certain Y lines which I believe could have only came in through Greeks like J2a-M319 and a lineage of J2a-M92 (its looking like PF7412 related lineages). They peak in areas where Greeks settled, and I manually Nevgen predicted the Y of Griko peoples in Salento and J2a-M319 and J2a-M92 were by far the most common J2a's amongst them.

 

[oreo_cookie]

The fact that one of the founders of theapricity was sent to prison for militant "white" supremacy undoubtedly led to some discretion, as well as the fact that the FBI and various European organizations are constantly monitoring them.

I am not going to address the rest of your post as I am leaving the forum (this is my last post), but this is not true. No one of any position of power on the forum has ever been as you described, and I think you've mixed up Apricity with the website "Skadi" which was a Nordicist forum and very racist. Apricity is now very mainstream for an anthroforum just like Forumbiodiversity, and over half of its users are not European... a lot of people from all over the Muslim world, Latin Americans of every race, and other people of color post on, and are perfectly accepted on, Apricity.

With that said I wish you all well, and absolve you of my presence.

 

[binx]

Apricity is now very mainstream for an anthroforum just like Forumbiodiversity, and over half of its users are not European... a lot of people from all over the Muslim world, Latin Americans of every race, and other people of color post on, and are perfectly accepted on, Apricity.

In Apricity it's all about for years the usual discussion: who are the swarthiest Europeans? Who is more MENA-looking? Who is more European-looking?

There, any discussion of genetics, anthropology, history, is ultimately linked to this.

Apricity is a masked version of Skadi, where Nordicist ideas are spread in the name of free speech, liberalism and lookism.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-swarthiest-Europeans-say-which-group-and-why.

Rank the Southern European regions in terms of most/least MENA influence.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...regions-in-terms-of-most-least-MENA-influence

I do not know how much you all are really aware of what you are doing.

 

[harena]

Apricity is a masked version of Skadi, where Nordicist ideas are spread in the name of free speech, liberalism and lookism.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-swarthiest-Europeans-say-which-group-and-why.

LOL I see a member in that thread going by the cringe name of MedBreeze who keeps spouting the same cheesy pan-Mediterraneanist tripe of Azzurro. I believe it's the same guy.
See also here:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...what-is-the-biggest-component-in-your-country

 

[Angela]

Ok, enough.

The important take away for newbies and the blissfully unaware at places like anthrogenica is that anything posted on these sites or by these people on any site, are all in the service of their racist/Nordicist ideology, which generally means using cherry-picked data and distorted interpretations of data, as we've seen on this very thread. Nothing posted by these people on any site can be taken at face value; the supposed source of the data must be thoroughly analyzed independently, which a lot of people either don't think of doing or don't know how to do.

An additional problem is that they assume false ethnicities and names for sock accounts all over the internet. Someone claiming to be Italian is not necessarily Italian. I've always had my doubts that Sikeliot is half-Sicilian American, especially given the fact that he posted for so long as, I think, Portuguese Princess. If he is Sicilian they should rename theapricity the "I hate my father thread."

Likewise, four posters agreeing on something may be one person.

This is all information newbies need. Heck, I didn't know most of it for years, because I didn't even know about those sites. I didn't know about Skadi until this week.

One last point point. There are Italian Nordicists too, usually, although not always, Northern Italians. One has been repeatedly banned, including by me. As for those who have posted here quite a bit and still post, I don't know their personal beliefs. I can't look into anyone's mind. What I do know is that I am not aware of them posting any incorrect, cherry picked or dishonest information. In fact, their posts are usually very helpful. I know a lot about Italy and I check the papers in great detail. I detest dishonest people, and I give that sort of thing short shrift no matter who posts it.

@ Oreo Cookie. So you've said twice before. Promises, promises.

So, this is in the nature of a public service announcement, which is why I allowed it even though it's a bit off topic. However, enough is enough. No more. BACK TO THE PAPER.

 

[Angela]

The, ahem, "experts" at anthrogenica (It seems Anthrogenica may become an outpost of theapricity.) keep trying to make points about settlement patterns in ancient Sicily in part by using data from Messina and Palermo. Perhaps, before pontificating they should learn a little bit about Italian history: Messina was hit by earthquakes in 1783, 1894 and most devastatingly in 1908. The entire city had to be rebuilt and resettled by people from all over the island and the mainland. Palermo is the capitol and has drawn people from all over the island, the mainland and abroad. It's like sampling in London, or San Francisco in 1960 and thinking it can tell you about settlement patterns in pre-earthquake S.F.

Of course, Sikeliot knows this very well as I informed him of it on 23and me, here, and privately. So he's just being dishonest,again. I'm surprised, however, that the moderator hasn't caught these things.

 

[LATGAL]

Apricity is now very mainstream

I think the internet has warped your idea of what is 'mainstream' a bit. This isn't to say that ethnic nationalism, racism and the like don't exist or aren't even very popular at times and places but...Maybe my problem is that I can't get as used to the I-was-just-joking-but-also-being-completely-serious-but-yeah-I-was-just-joking shitposting world. :grin:

Sorry for the off-topic. :innocent:

 

[Alpenjager]

I'll be able to post graphs in a few posts hopefully.

You should clear your private messages in order to receive new ones.

 

[spartan owl]

My first observation is that this is another research confirming the closeness of greek and s.italian population and that the EEF sardinia-like substratum brought the greek and italian population close even before the greek colonization.
The second thing is about the middle easter influence in s.italy. A lot of people seemed puzzled about s.italy having a bigger middle eastern component than greece but according to my oppinion it is to be expected if you take a look at those two countries history as greece was never conquered by the saracens with the exception of crete.I agree anyway with angela that a conquest do not change drastically a countrys genetics but i do not see a valid reason why to expect higher influence in a country that was not.(there was of course the turkish occupation but turks are very different to levantines).The only hypothesis in that case would be that ancient greeks were more middle eastern than italians but it seems more likely that greek and italians were even more similar than today.On the other hand maybe just the mainland greeks were more slavisized-balkanized but in that case you should aspect that kind of results too.But i do not see the reason why should we focus only in that small portion of the s.italian ancestry anyway...
My last observation would be that the albanians seems to be more isolated and that becomes even more obvious to the ghegs as they have the biggest sardinian like ancestry and also have a really tiny middle eastern component but also small european like component.That means to my opinion that they were less affected by the events of balkanization and maybe even to the prior events.(the low middle eastern component make me belive that they were pretty different than greeks and romans and isolated even in ancient times) that becomes clear if you compare them with the neighbouring n.greece but even peloponnese have less sardinian and more european like component than the ghegs(it is not the same for the tosks at least for the european-like part).So i am keen to belive that tosks were influenced by the ancient greek colonization and the s albania greek minority rather than the opposite , or at least they followed parallel paths, but it was a two way influence, like it is usually in nature.That offcourse made the arbereshe that they were tosks more easy to blend geneticaly with the italians than if they were ghegs that probably would have more stark differences.
All this offcourse is just hypothesis untill we have ancient dna like angela said

 

[Hauteville]

Actually only Sicily was conquered by saracens for a short time, Calabria, Basilicata and Puglia never conquered by them (except Bari for a really short time) and those saracens were not levantines but berbers and arabized spaniards/portuguese. So the extra-levantine compared to mainland Greece came not from saracens.

 

[spartan owl]

Actually only Sicily was conquered by saracens for a short time, Calabria, Basilicata and Puglia never conquered by them (except Bari for a really short time) and those saracens were not levantines but berbers and arabized spaniards/portuguese. So the extra-levantine compared to mainland Greece came not from saracens.

i must admit that you are right about that.So probably it was just the mainland greece that drifted towards north-east,but we can not really tell without ancient dna. The difference is not big in my opinion anyway(at least for the aegean), i was just saying that there is not reall reason to aspect bigger mena component in greece but i would not be shocked if it was either.

 

[Monsieur]

No the study samples self declared Greek American customers of GENO 2, not actual Greeks from Greece who have a signification recent MENA component from Asia Minor, Pontus, Cappadocia,... see Stamatoyannopoulos et al.

 

[Angela]

No the study samples self declared Greek American customers of GENO 2, not actual Greeks from Greece who have a signification recent MENA component from Asia Minor, Pontus, Cappadocia,... see Stamatoyannopoulos et al.

Stop using terms that are totally inapplicable, like MENA, which includes North Africa. Also, stop misrepresenting the results of that study. I told Sikeliot what would happen if he once again engaged in the equivalent of academic fraud. The same applies to you my supposedly Neapolitan friend. It is you, Joey, isn't it? How many accounts have you opened over the years? Nice handle this time for a Neapolitan. Any chefs in the family?

 

[New Englander]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/01/160119-gladiator-headless-skeletons-dna/

I know this is old, but its still interesting.

 

[Parapolitikos]

The influence of ancient greeks in genetic terms was insignificant. The ancient greeks were a small, lucky and genius group of tribes.
They were small, compared with the other nations of antiquity like Celts, Thracians, Illyrians, etc.

According to whom?
Classical Greece population(and colonies) was 7-10 millions at a time the entire Europe didn't have much more than 50 millions

 

[Angela]

Just ignore this kind of nonsense unsupported by any data. The ancient Greeks were numerous enough to found colonies all over the ancient world. Their problem was a surplus of people for their rocky homeland.

 

[OkTex]

My wife's family came to the States from Sicily in 1900...my research indicates that her family was originally Albanian and that there are several Albanian enclaves in Sicily that remain to this day, complete with their language, traditions etc. Would appreciate any discussion and history of this Albanian migration.

 

[Pax Augusta]

My wife's family came to the States from Sicily in 1900...my research indicates that her family was originally Albanian and that there are several Albanian enclaves in Sicily that remain to this day, complete with their language, traditions etc. Would appreciate any discussion and history of this Albanian migration.

In Sicily there are few Arbereshe towns in comparison with Calabria who has the biggest number of Albanian towns in Italy.

Which town of Sicily did your wife's ancestors come from?