Kura Araxes Expansion and the Y lines that can be associated with them

[DuPidh]

LeBrok, those fat ladies are not holding snakes !! .. just kidding I get your point. The Neolithic expansion could be the common origin I'm talking about, or it could be Kura Araxes.

but what about the other similarities ? I think I'll be forced to post all of them.

Bull leaping

I have heard that Minoans have a writing script which shows similarities with Persian script. So your comparisons could have a merit.

 

[Alan]

I have no doubts that J lineages will be found among Kura Araxes samples. But until now these kind of things are simple speculations and the only samples we have by hand are 2 x R1bs and a L1b.

 

[Pax Augusta]

In my History of the Italian people, I identified R1b-U152 (and especially Z36) as the main Italic and Roman lineage

Z36 the main Italic and Roman lineage? Probably you meant Z56.

 

[Azzurro]

LeBrok, those fat ladies are not holding snakes !! .. just kidding I get your point. The Neolithic expansion could be the common origin I'm talking about, or it could be Kura Araxes.

but what about the other similarities ? I think I'll be forced to post all of them.

Bull leaping

Thanks for posting this, you got me really interested in the Indus Valley Civilization, I watched a documentary about them yesterday because of your post.

 

[Maciamo]

I have no doubts that J lineages will be found among Kura Araxes samples. But until now these kind of things are simple speculations and the only samples we have by hand are 2 x R1bs and a L1b.

Perhaps they only published those minor side lineages on purpose to mislead the online genetic community (or other labs). That wouldn't be the first time. This way they have more time to analyse other genomes and to come up with a theory for their next paper.

Remember how they let people (except me) believe for four years that the Bell Beaker were a single unified ethnic group belonging to R1b-L51 and subclades? They could have chose to test Bell Beaker samples from various countries from the start to avoid such confusion. Maybe they did, but didn't publish the results on purpose, so that other researchers would fall in the trap and publish wrong theories that they could later destroy, thus lowering other researchers's reputation and strengthening theirs. It's ludicrous how easy the majority of people will extrapolate all kinds of wild theories based on a few samples (sometimes just one) that may not even be representative of the culture tested.

That being said, if you look at R1b-L388 and L1b around the Caucasus today, you will see that they are both present, but at low frequencies. L1 ranges from 3 to 5% (except for a local peak at 10% in some tribes from southern Daghestan) , but is indeed found in all the Kura-Araxes territory, including coastal Syria and Lebanon. It's higher frequency around Pakistan coincides with the area of the Indus Valley Civilisation, but due to the lack of detailed data from South Asia, it's hard to tell if that L1 came with Iranian Neolithic farmers, with Kura-Araxes people, or both.

Anyway, R1b-L388 and L1b should definitely be added as minor Kura-Araxes lineage, but they certainly not the only ones, nor major ones.

 

[MarkoZ]

So if the majority of the Kura Araxes culture were not R1b-V1636, then what are its origin? I also belong to the V1636 clade of R1b which was found there.

The choice is between ancient samples and speculation based on age estimates :grin:

 

[Edward_J]

Of great interest to me! I am under Z387 at Z39975*. My paternal line is German (Colonial American - PA German). Only myself and another German confirmed for this SNP at the moment. We are in a specific group DYS 472 = 9. With more full sequences we can further define subclades. At moment appears we split with Middle Eastern group around 3700 ybp.

 

[Seouenaca]

Hi Azzurro, I found your post on the Kura Araxes expansion very interesting. Could you expand on your statement that : "J-Z6254 under J-Z515 ...expanded heavily" at the time of the Kura-Araxes expansion. I'm interested in J-Z515 and its subclades. In what directions did it expand and where did it end up? Thanks.